Klaus Mogensen

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

Why does +1 DC cost -2 OCV in levels' date=' but +1 OCV costs -1 DC in Spread?[/quote']

That's easy enough to explain. Something bought mainly as CV should be less effective at doing damage than something bought mainly for damage is, and vice versa. So +2 OCV can't be traded for +2 DC, and +1 DC can't be traded for +2 OCV.

 

If you had a fixed trade-off rate back and forth (say, +3 OCV ~ 2 DC), you risk situations where it always is a good idea to trade OCV for damage, because it is cheaper than buying extra damage, or where it always is a good idea to trade damage for OCV, because it is cheaper than buying extra OCV.

 

As it is, trading OCV for damage is a very good deal if you can use 3-point levels. That costs 6 points for +1 DC, 0 END Cost, which can be traded for +2 OCV. Buying +1 DC with 0 END Cost usually costs 7.5 points, and you can only trade it for +1 OCV.

 

- Klaus

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

The simple fact is a 0 END Power can:

- Be used immediately upon regaining consciousness, regardless of where your Endurance is.

- Is unaffected by Endurance Drains

- Is independant of your Recovery Score and Recovery Ability

- Has unlimited uses

- Toss in Autofire and you're really cooking.

These are truly great benefits, which you pay 30 points for on a 60-base power. However, if you instead use, say, 26 points to buy +40 END, +36 REC (END only, -1)), you get these benefits:

- You save 4 character points for other stuff, like extra CON, DEF or STUN (making you harder to stun and knock out) or extra Multipower slots (making more powers available)

- The power has only two-thirds the Active Points compared to buying 0 END

- The power can be put into a smaller Multipower, with a reduced slot cost, saving 6 character points on each normal slot (that's 24 points saved on a four-power Multipower)

- At SPD 6 or less, you can use the power indefinitely unless you get knocked out or END-Drained and still have 4 END left over for other uses.

- At SPD 5 or less, you have left-over END and REC for other uses

- If you don't use the power every single phase, you save END and REC for other uses

- The power is unaffected by drains of "Reduced END" advantages

- You have the option of spending STUN to fuel the power

- If you spend a recovery action, you get lots of extra END, which e.g. can be used to push powers

Another option for 30 points is to buy +90 END, +12 REC (non-limited). This provides the following benefits:

- You can use the power at least 17 times (even at SPD 12) before having to worry about running out of END

- At SPD 6, you can use the power every phase for 3½ turns before running out of END

- The extra REC means you recover faster from being KO'd and generally wake with more STUN

- You recover faster from BODY damage and many other effects

- You are able to push a lot at the beginning of an encounter

- Plus many of the benefits listed for the first option

I can see a case for 0 END Cost for very high-SPD characters that want to have e.g. Force Fields running full time, but for most powers and characters, buying more END and REC makes a lot more sense. That was the case before the reduced costs of END and REC, and much more now.

- Klaus

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

If you are KO'd to -9 STUN' date=' you will have more STUN and END when you wake up if you have a 9 REC than if you have 10 - 17 REC.[/quote']

But if you have 9 REC + 30 REC (STUN Only: -1), you will have way more STUN when you wake up. As ajackson pointed out, that is what you have to compare with. Or put the END in a battery; then you don't even have to think about losing it when you're knocked out.

 

The big picture is: END Cost has been reduced by a factor of 2½, but the cost of Reduced END hasn't changed. Don't you think that there's something wrong with that picture?

 

It would make sense if Reduced END was much too cheap before, compared to END, but as I showed in the 6e forum (using math; sorry!), the reverse was more the case.

 

- Klaus

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

Reduced Endurance has not changed.

That's madness!

The cost of Reduced END (provided no other advantages) is 5 points per 1 END less (60 points active, Half END Cost: +15 points for reducing END Cost by 3; 60 points active, 0 END Cost: +30 points for reducing END Cost by 6).

END is now only 0.2 points. For 5 points you can get 25 END, which is good for 25 uses - and the END can be used for other powers as well.

- Klaus

Re: For you mathematically able out there

I'm switching my setting from the use of 3d6 to the use of 3d10 (to offer greater granularity) ... so far I have converted all I wanted to the new dice chance ratio... except the range chart...

The obvious thing is to change the range iincrements rather than the modifiers. Since 16*6/10 = 9.6 ~ 10, we get a new range chart:

 Range          Mod
Adjacent         0    
   2-5m          0        
   6-7m         -1
  7-10m         -2
 11-14m         -3
 15-20m         -4
 21-28m         -5
 29-40m         -6
 41-56m         -7
 57-80m         -8
and so forth...

You could round the numbers a bit, so you get 15m, 30m, and 60m instead of 14m, 28m, and 56m

- Klaus

Re: Question about Combat skill levels and damage

While we're on that topic, what are the rules for exchanging CSLs for damage in 6e?

In earlier editions, being able to exchange two 3-point levels for damage was a too-good deal: 6 points for +1d6, 0 END Cost with a selection of attacks, compared to +1d6, 0 END bought normally at 7.5 points - with no option for exchanging this for OCV bonuses.

Of course, with END being repriced at 0.2, I expect that "O END Cost" has been changed to a +1/4 advantage. Or has "Reduced END Cost" been reworked as an adder, as was suggested in the 6e forum?

- Klaus

Re: Reading the blurry handout....

Here's my attempt to parse Hurr-Ghaas:

Dex: looks like it might be an 18, but the stat roll looks like it might be a 14-, and the cost looks like 14, so this may be 24 (cost 14), or 18 (cost 16) or 15 (cost 10).

Would be interesting if it were 24 (cost 14), since that would mean there's no doubling for going past 20.

OCV: looks like 5 (cost 10)

That suggests base 3, cost 5 per +1 - not too surprising.

Rec?: looks like 4 (cost 2)

End?: looks vaguely like 30 (cost 2)

BODY: looks like 13 (cost 3)

STUN: looks like 30 (cost 5)

If REC is base 2, cost has been dropped to 1.

If END is base 20, and you read the numbers correctly, END cost has been dropped to 5 END for 1 point.

If STUN is base 20, cost has been dropped to ½.

These are significant reductions, particularly for END.

- Klaus

Re: 4th-5th edition differences? Cosmetic or dramatic?

I would stick with 4th or change to 6th. I never bought 5th (though I've read it) because it mainly had cosmetic changes and didn't address what I consider the real issues with 4th, and because it was much too wordy for my taste. Powers, even when essentially unchanged, are generally explained in two or three times the amount of text as in 4th. 5th Revised is supposedly far worse in this respect.

Of course, if you need rulings for every imaginable combination of powers and advantages/limitations, a lot of text is good. For me, it is faster and more fun to just make on-the-spot rulings in such cases, as long as the general rules are clear.

There are powers that take up three pages in 5e that are explained in five lines in Mutants & Masterminds 2, without being much more clear or flexible.

- Klaus

Re: VPP: Skill roll to allocate w/o changing?

Yeah, I think it is still required. However, the skill roll will be easier if you only shift 10 points rather than 40.

- Klaus

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

I like the general idea, but there should be modifiers for how common the medium of travel is. For instance, Flight and Swimming are both 3-dimensional, but Flight generally has far wider use.

"Predefined space" is a bit vague. Will general Flight allow you to travel both in air and in vacuum, or should these be bought as separate 'spaces'? Will different planets count as different 'spaces'?

I would like to see Movement as a single power where you pay full cost for the most versatile mode and then can add other modes very cheaply.

For instance, if you have Flight, is should only cost a few points (perhaps a 5-point adder) to add Running or Swimming at the same speed.

You can do something similar now with Multipower, but that has the odd result that you can swim twice as fast as you can fly, which seems counter-intuitive. (I know, I don't have to buy the Swim slot at full power, but it seems a waste not to).

- Klaus

Re: AP-limit idea

Except that would allow powers to grow too powerful' date=' for too few points.[/quote']

Well, then make it a 10-point or 15-point adder to add +5 to the AP limit.

 

- Klaus

Re: AP-limit idea

Unfortunately' date=' in HD, there's either Custom Adders (Far too much work for this), or using advantages[/quote']

I've never used HD, but a custom adder actually seems to be the right way to do it:

 

Limit Breaker (5-point adder): Each adder allows a power to exceed the campaign limit for active points by 5 points (not counting this adder).

 

- Klaus

Re: AP-limit idea

The problem with doing it with an advantage is that it can stack with other advantages. Say that a +½ advantage allows you to go to 120 points. Then you could either make (as Ghost Angel suggests) a 16D6 Energy Blast (80 Active Points); Active Point Exceeder Level 1 (+1/2) = 120 Active Points, where 40 of these points are from the Exceeder level. Or you could make a 8d6 EB, AoE (+1), 0 END Cost (+½), Active Point Exceeder Level 1 (+1/2) = 120 points, where only 20 points are from the Exceeder level.

I would rather have something like Fuzion's "Rule of X", where the campaign limit is a sum of attacks, defenses, OCV and DCV (and perhaps SPD, STUN, CON and BODY), which means that you could have a character that is a heavy hitter, but has a glass jaw.

- Klaus

Re: Hero System from the scratch..

As for conversion guidelines for C:NM, there weren't any I could find, so I had to figure it out by myself or near

Too bad, because the settings was really interesting

I usually don't worry too much about conversion. As long as the characters are interesting and reasonably balanced, they don't have to be very much like in the original product.

A useful shortcut for NPCs is to ignore END and REC - just assume that they have END enough for what they do, and don't let them recover any STUN during combat (unless it is dramatically interesting).

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

[Dumb build] It would allow me to toss out a 16d6 EB on recovering from being KO'd with 1 END. That seems useful. The EB could go in a Multipower of other abilities that cost END as well.

What I meant is that by spending a few points extra on END, you could use the power several times before having to worry about recovery.

You don't get a limitation if your character has a low REC either.

There is a difference between having low recovery and having slow recovery. Recovering 100 END every hour is slower than recovering 1 END every turn, yet currently the former is vastly more expensive in an END Reserve.

That's not to say END reserve couldn't stand a review.

I did argue for that repeatedly in the 6e forum, and I hope Steve has rewritten it. As I see it, the main problems with the current version are:

1. The END is much too cheap. There is no real reason it should be any cheaper than normal END, since the utility is more or less the same. You can't get it back through Recovery actions, but in return, you don't lose it when knocked out.
   
2. The limitation for slow recovery isn't worth anything. It is always better to spend X points on REC/Turn than spending the same points on slower, limited REC. The slowest REC worth buying is 1/Turn, and that will recharge even a 100 END Reserve in 20 minutes.
   

I outlined one solution above: limit powers according to how slowly the reserve recovers. Another, simpler solution is to not have a REC per se in a Reserve, but let all the END (at a cost of 1 per) recover every Turn. Then limitations can be applied to this cost for slower recovery. Having a 50 END Reserve that recovers every 5 minutes (-1) would hence cost 25 points. This corresponds reasonably to having 50 regular END (25 points) and 2 REC.

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

As a GM' date=' I'd have to ask how your construct for, say, 1 turn cooldown would be unfairly priced at 16d6 EB, 0 END, 10 point END battery, 8 REC for 129 points? It's the same end result.[/quote']

Why 0 END? Then you could use the power forever without ever worrying about the END Reserve. I assume you just mean 16d6 EB, 10 point END Reserve, 8 REC for 89 points - which would still be a rather dumb build.

 

Manipulation of the END battery and END multiple seems like a min/max approach, although it may come to a reasonable result.

I grant you that, but that has more to do with how END Reserve works. You don't get a limitation on a power if the Reserve it draws from is very slow, even though a comparable build with Charges would give a limitation.

 

I think that the limitation you get on REC in a Reserve should also be applied to the Powers that draw on the Reserve. In return, the END could be more expensive than now, perhaps ½ point like regular END.

 

I don't have the book here, but AFAIR, slow recovery of END is -½ per step on the time chart. So to get a 5-minute cooldown, you would get a -1 limitation on both the REC and the Power. So with this alternate END Reserve, it would go like:

 

16d6 EB with slow Reserve (-1): 40 points

8 END in Battery: 4 points

8 REC, recovers every 5 minutes (-1): 4 points

Total cost: 48 points - exactly the same as 16d6 with 0 END (+½) and 5 minute cooldown (suggested -1½ limitation)

 

- Klaus

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #6: Defense Powers

Armor and Force Field have been combined into a new Power called Resistant Protection. It uses the cost structure for Armor (3 Character Points for 2 points of Resistant Defense)' date=' though as with Force Field you can define this as Power Defense, Mental Defense, or the like instead of just PD and ED.[/quote']

Since Power Defense, Mental Defense and the like don't usually have to be Resistant, isn't this a little odd? I mean, you would buy e.g. Resistant Protection: +5 PD, +5 PD, +5 Mental Defense, +5 Flash Defense and then have to put a Non-Resistant limitation on the Mental Defense and the Flash Defense.

 

Or is there also a plain Protection power for non-resistant defenses?

 

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

Thus we'd have these values for various cooldown times:

 

Extra Phase -1/4

Turn -3/4

Minute -1

Five Minutes -1.5

etc.

Problem is, this is more expensive than my suggestion for building it under current rules - so why would you choose the limitation?

16d6 EB, x10 END Cost (-4): 16 points

END Reserve (80 END, 4 REC): 12 points

Total cost: 28 points

It takes 4 minutes to fully recover the Reserve.

Compared to 16d6 with 0 END (+½) and 5 minute cooldown (-1½ limitation) at 48 points.

A 1-minute cooldown variant would be:

16d6 EB, x6 END Cost (-2½): 23 points

END Reserve (50 END, 10 REC): 15 points

Total cost: 38 points

Compared to 16d6 with 0 END (+½) and 5 minute cooldown (-1): 60 points

Or the 1-turn variant (which in my version would even allow firing on the first phase in a new turn rather than after a full turn):

16d6 EB, x3 END Cost (-1): 40 points

END Reserve (30 END, 24 REC): 27 points

Total cost: 67 points

Compared to 16d6 with 0 END (+½) and 1 turn cooldown (-3/4): 69 points

(Edited with more information).

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

Also from the older thread:

 

34 Extra Time To Recharge (Option 1): Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Charge (-3/4) [Notes: Changing Clips normally takes 1 Phase.] - END=[1]

Since this only allows 16 shots in a day, it's not quite the same as a cooldown power, which in theory can fire as many times a day as the cooldown allows. If the cooldown e.g. is one turn, you need 7200 clips to make this work.

Besides, changing clips is an action - you can't do anything else while changing.

- Klaus

Re: Stripped Hero for Computer Game

For increased simplicity, you could do like 6e and buy OCV and DCV directly rather than derive them from DEX (Agility).

An option could be to buy some combat levels that can be switched between OCV and DCV (perhaps using the + and - buttons). This gives some tactical options besides choice of attack.

You could also consider having attacks draw on END Reserves, perhaps with continuous per-segment recovery (not a problem since the computer handles bookkeeping). A sidebar could show when there's enough END for different kinds of attacks, with area attacks costing more and perhaps Claw being cheapest (or doing more damage) since it isn't ranged.

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

You could buy a 12d6 Energy Blast, feeds from END reserve (+0), costs END (so the character must pay 6 personal END when he uses it as well) for 40 points. A 6 point END reserve with 6 REC costs 7 points, so the cost has been reduced 13 points for a 1 turn cooldown period.

[...]

None of these capture the real effect. Cooldown Time is more limiting than the END Reserve, since the power will always be available at the start of the next turn regardless of when it was previously used. That approach cannot simulate a cooldown period of a phase or two.

I believe the rules say that the GM can allow recovery of END Reserves to be allocated over a period of time rather than in lumps at intervals. So you could e.g. have a 12 REC Reserve that recovers 1 END every phase.

- Klaus

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

The easiest way is to have an END Reserve for the power' date=' with just enough END for one use and a suitably slow recharge rate.[/quote']

As Sean pointed out, this is more expensive than just buying the power straight. So here's a variant:

 

Power is bought with Increased END Cost. The END is drawn from an END Reserve with just enough END for one use.

 

Example:

16d6 EB, x10 END Cost (-4): 16 points

END Reserve (80 END, 4 REC): 12 points

Total cost: 28 points

It takes 4 minutes to fully recover the Reserve.

 

- Klaus

 

Edit: Corrected numbers

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

The easiest way is to have an END Reserve for the power, with just enough END for one use and a suitably slow recharge rate.

- Klaus

Re: Piercing

1) Extra Damage Classes with martial arts cost 4 points each.

That may get changed in 6e. +5 STR, 0 END, Only to Do Damage With a Favored Group of Attacks: 5*1.5/1.5 = 5.

2) Normally in order to add damage to an attack with CSL it requires two (at least 5-point CSLs) to do so.

Is the 5-point requirement a 5er rule? In 5e, it all but 2-point levels (I'm pretty sure).

Not that the 5-point rule is bad; it is rather cheap with 3-point levels. +5 STR, 0 END, Only to Do Damage: 5*1.5/1.25 = 6. Two 3-point levels also cost 6 points, but can add to OCV as well as to damage.

- Klaus

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I think the first point-buy system was Ysgarth (1979). I don't know if it had disadvantages, though.

- Klaus