Campaign Limits: what's your formula?

[Kabluey]

Re: Campaign Limits: what's your formula?

 

It is doable and can be balanced in theory, but it leads to some significant concerns around Advantages that do not add DCs, but make powers much deadlier.

 

Area Effect, for example, greatly increases the accuracy of a power without raising DCs. Same with 0 End. You will have to watch out for players who take advantage of that to up the combat efficiency of their characters.

 

This is at least partially incorrect. On the sidebar of p. 404 in 5ER, it indicates that some advantages do factor into to DC and gives a list. The list is just a suggestion, indicating that it is ultimately up to the GM. Area of Effect is on the suggested list, but Reduced END is not. However, I've been using DC limits for a while now just using the suggested list and have been pretty happy with the result.

[Kabluey]

Re: Campaign Limits: what's your formula?

 

In my campaigns, I've taken different approaches for Heroic and Superheroic games. In Heroic games, I have thus far shied away from limits. The one limit I do have is to limit the number of CSL's or PSL's that may be applied to any specific attack. You can have no more than two PSL's for a specific purpose (e.g., Range Modifiers, Hit Location). Similarly, you can have no more than 2 of any similar point cost CSL (2 and 3 point count as same, for this purpose) apply to an attack. So, for example, you could add in up to two 2 or 3-point CSL, two 5-point CSL, two 8-point CSL, and even two 10-point Overall. The point is, you can have a higher OCV, but I want it to cost, and I find the cost for all that is enough of a limiting factor to keep it from being abused (I don't have any character who's come even close to having all those). I run lower-point campaigns (100-125 total character points), though, so this may not work as well for higher-point campaings. Beyond that and NCM, I haven't yet found a need for explicit campaign limits. But I do review every character carefully.

 

For Superheroic, I've used the recommended limits out of the book with fairly good results. My problem with them, though, is that players didn't interpret them as maximums (i.e., don't go over) but as targets (i.e., character must match it). So in my most recent campaign, though, I've started experimenting with a more flexible limit system. That is, I have a set of hard limits, but you can exceed some as long as you are lower in other areas. For example, I have a DC limit of 8 (250-point campaign) and a SPD limit of 5. But you can go to a DC of 10 if you reduce your SPD to 4. The point of this is to allow a player to shine in a particular area, but still retain balance. For my newest campaign where I introduced this, we're still in the process of building characters, so I don't know exactly how effective it will be.

 

And, of course, I carefully review every character. Can't stress this enough as the best way to maintain character balance.

[wylodmayer]

Re: Campaign Limits: what's your formula?

 

I tend to cleave fairly close to the guidelines given in the book, modified for campaign and concept. However...

 

One thing that I have found useful is to figure out who your "benchmark" characters are, and what THEY have. I mean, does your game have a Superman? Do you not want your PCs being stronger than this guy, or, if one of them is, it should be, you know, ONLY one of them, and not ALL of them? Well, you need to know what his strength is, and set that as a limit.

 

More importantly, how about your most agile characters? Is there someone like a Spider Man in your game? What's his DEX? Does he have any CSLs that could be used for DCV? What's his best DCV with a Dodge? If a certain character pours everything he's got into hitting the guy, what are his chances?

 

Also, it's important to do the math on the other end, too. I once played in a game run by a well meaning but inexperienced GM who built his characters off his "gut" without checking his numbers. He used a standard write up for a cop that gave the guy a basic DEX (CV 3) and 1 level applicable to his gun for OCV and no other bonuses, for a total OCV of 4. He built a "Spider Man" like NPC who was supposed to be able to get by on his DCV alone while attacking normals; he conceived of the character as wading into a crowd of attacking norms and never getting hit. But the guy only had a DCV of 9, which means he'll get hit by an OCV of 4 only slightly less than 10% of the time. Given his defenses and a crowd of a dozen guys with guns, even that was too much. The GM was puzzled and annoyed that things didn't work out like he had conceived of it, but a little prep work could have served him well.

 

This sounds like a lot of math, I know, but you don't want to get surprised by these things in game.

 

As for other concerns, like ECV skill levels and such, be strict in approving characters and enforcing concept. Again, knowledge of the campaign world is very helpful. Where does a character GET ECV only skill levels? How many does the best mentalist in your world have? Obviously, no one who isn't in contention for that title should have nearly as many. Etc.

 

Plus, always remember that you're the GM. You set up the situation. I don't see how the characters can get away with "hiding inside of Summoned Vehicles" (which doesn't seem right to me - how do you Summon a Vehicle?) and still accomplish the things he needs to do as a hero. What if he has to get out to disarm the villain's bomb? Or to rescue someone who is about to be trapped in a collapsing building? Are these heroes or maxed-out table top combat designs?

 

Anyone interested in seeing my spreadsheets for calculating CV advantage, and the sample work I did for a Marvel in HERO game, email me.

[Marketeer]

Re: Campaign Limits: what's your formula?

 

This is at least partially incorrect. On the sidebar of p. 404 in 5ER' date=' it indicates that some advantages do factor into to DC and gives a list. The list is just a suggestion, indicating that it is ultimately up to the GM. Area of Effect is on the suggested list, but Reduced END is not. However, I've been using DC limits for a while now just using the suggested list and have been pretty happy with the result.[/quote']

 

And... D'oh!

 

That'll teach me for answering without my books on-hand!

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the correction.