prestidigitator

Re: Rules on Hiking? [6e]

True, but many continuous powers also have an effect each Phase, so you're also cutting in half both you're opportunity to act and the rate at which the continuous power does its thing. I suppose there is a benefit to purely defensive powers though. Still, I believe the only restriction on lowering Speed in 6E is that you always drown at Speed 2 (even if you have a Speed 1 naturally).

Re: Question on resistant PD/ED?

I usually do it with a simple Naked Resistant (+1/2) Advantage for the character's total (maximum) amount of PD/ED in 6E. So in the OP's example this would look something like:

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

Cool. Yeah, that's sort of the point of the overall change: to level the playing field between the different Attack Powers and give a more consistent mechanic for adding damage. The "baseline" I was referring to is specifically the amount of damage done by a default 0-point 10-stat character though; I think it works pretty well for "realistic/cinematic" combat between unskilled people brawling in the street; for most attacks no real damage is going to be done, but there's going to be a bit of Stun and every few shots might do a bit of Body (draw blood, break a nose, crack a rib, etc.). It's when weapons or a skilled martial artist enters the picture that things start to get messy in a hurry unless you've got some big beefy targets or some kind of protection in the scene.

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

Why, psychic weapons of course.

True on the "free" die of damage. I wanted to keep the starting baseline the same. Do you see any simple method of fixing that? I'm on the fence about trying to muck with it vs. just saying it's a single d6 and just about everyone is going to have more than that if they spend a few points anyway. Hmm....

Re: Rules on Hiking? [6e]

Everyone drowns at a minimum Speed of 2, yes, but you can certainly choose not to act (spend End) every Phase. Thus, it's reasonable to allow people to lower their Speed to 1 normally. In fact, I believe drowning is the ONLY case in which a character would potentially BENEFIT from a lower Speed. Even then you can let the character ACT on Speed 1 even though they must lose End as if they had another Phase (i.e. they must lose 1 more End each Turn than they spend on their one Phase of action at Speed 1).

Re: Rules on Hiking? [6e]

Voluntarily lower your SPD to 1 and move at 6". You spend 1 END per turn' date=' so no LTE. You move 24 meters per turn = 120 meters per minute = 7.2 km/hour.[/quote']

...which is a brisk but not exhausting walk. I'd expect most fit (Char 10 rather than Char 8) characters in a heroic game to be able to keep that up pretty much indefinitely in the absence of other factors (e.g. having to struggle with difficult terrain or carry more than a light load). It's when you deviate even a little bit from the starting Characteristics that things start to get a little silly. Like when you buy that +1 Rec that someone pointed out can allow you to move at the full movement rate all day without any LTE loss.

 

Hmm. Here's an idea. Assign a certain minimum LTE loss rate for ANY activity requiring you to use more than the starting 10 Char, 2 Speed, 12m Running, etc. Characteristics for more than an hour. Then if you truly want a super-endurance character, you can actually buy more Endurance to last longer, or some kind of Healing that will restore LTE or something.

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

Much like the killing attack' date=' any character whose STR and HA are not set equal is wasting points. Again, I don't see a fix - this is inherent to the mechanics of the chosen system.[/quote']

Perhaps. Spending extra on HA always gives you the extra damage. Spending points on the Strength may not, but you do get other benefits (lifting capacity; better limits for encumbrance in suitable games; more effective Grabs, Disarms, etc.). Also, there may be game-time opportunities to use that Strength for damage that normally wouldn't be possible without going back and spending more points. For example, when a character picks up a new weapon or the occasional big object to swing/throw.

 

How does this interact with Hand Attack advantages? Would I get the exact same effect by making my HA Ranged for +1/2? IOW' date=' do I only buy an advantage on the Hand Attack, and the STR still adds 1d6 per 5 points? Do I pro rate the STR adds for advantages on the HA? Do I pro rate only for advantages that impact the DC's (ie pro rate for Armor Piercing, but not for Range)? How does buying an Advantaged HA, let's say Penetrating at +1/2, compare to buying a No Range Penetrating Blast?[/quote']

The Strength Adds Advantage was mostly for consistency. Now HA and Blast are a little more homogeneous, just like HKA/RKA are; there's little reason to say, "You CAN'T put this Advantage on..." anymore.

 

As for whether things are, "pro-rated," that's going to depend on what Advantages the GM believes contribute to the damage/effectiveness of the attack. Generally it's all going to be "pro-rated" since a DC is pretty closely defined as 5 Active Points in 6E (with the exception of Advantages that aren't considered to affect damage and such). Whatever the case, calculate the total number of DCs in the Attack Power, and that's the maximum number of DCs Strength can add on, at a rate of 1 DC per 5 Strength. Pretty much the way it works already, but with a hard limit on the amount.

 

So if I make my HA a Focus' date=' I get range for free, albeit Range based on STR, instead of going the Blast or HA w/ Range route?[/quote']

Not normally, no. Rules for throwing objects are for throwing objects. Whether that applies to any Focus or not is going to be up to the GM, right? But generally I'd watch carefully a character who did that often, and require them to put Ranged on the Focus' powers or buy using different Powers if that's the way it's going to be used.

 

Why would I do this? If I have a 30 STR and a 6d6 HA' date=' I do 12d6. If I put STR Min on my HA, I save 6 points (less, actually, since it already has a Focus), and lose 3d6. If I want my 3d6 back, I need to bump STR to 45 since the first 15 does nothing, so I'm down 9 points.[/quote']

Why would you normally put a Strength Minimum on an attack? Usually to build heroic weapons, though there's no defined limitation for using them only for that. The right tool in the right circumstance. To me it's about being able to build what you want in a way that makes sense, rather than always being 100% point efficient.

 

By the way' date=' can I limit my STR "only to enhance damage" so it only adds to HA's and HKAs? Can I limit it to only enhance one of the two? Can I limit it to not enhance one of the two? Can I limit it to enhance neither? What limitation values apply to these choices? If I can't get my head around STR limited in this manner, getting my head around STR that does no damage on its own seems equally unlikely.[/quote']

You could limit to neither, certainly. The value of the Limitation would be up to the GM based on the type of game, but I'd probably put it somewhere between -1/2 and -1. The others seem to run afoul of meta-rules IMO. If you want more damage alone, buy a bigger attack power. Just like if you want a better Acrobatics roll, you should be putting points into the Acrobatics skill or some Skill Levels, not buying Dexterity limited as "Only for Acrobatics."

 

So' date=' for no point savings whatsoever, I can risk losing access to a power if a characteristic gets drained. Somehow, I'm not seeing the equity.[/quote']

Yep. It's not always about the points, but about building the game elements that fit the concept. If the circumstances under which you lose your power are rare enough, -0 seems appropriate to me. And since you are generally going to build your character so that they have enough Strength to use the power, the circumstances under which Strength Minimum (or the others) are going to apply seem like they are going to be pretty rare and not very limiting. If you see it differently, by all means increase the value of the Limitation.

 

As for continued justification of whether this change is "worth it" or not, again I'm not going to continue to argue. If you've got constructive criticism for making it work well in a game, I'd love to hear it.

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

It might take a little tinkering with the weapon stats, but I think that this generally would be a clearer way of handling weapons. How would you see your rules suggestions interacting with martial arts or skill levels for damage?

 

Let's take the example of a swashbuckling fencer. We'll assume a rapier (1d6K) for this example. STR Min would now be 7, and our fencer decides to leave his STR at the base of 10. He'd add 2 DC to the basic weapon damage. Would a Lunge add its full 2 DC (4 DC/2 for weapon use) for a total of 7 DC, or would it only be usable to double the base damage and add 1 DC for a total of 6 DC?

My viewpoint is that the restriction on how many DCs can be added by Strength is independent of what restrictions the GM wants to place on adding damage in general. So if the GM wants to limit an attack or weapon's damage to, "double the attack's base DCs", then he'll want to define what contributes to, "base DCs." If, for example, Extra Martial Arts DCs add to, "base damage," then the MA maneuver might be able to do more than 6 DCs if the character goes that way. If the GM wants to apply exceptions that can bypass the normal doubling rule he uses (e.g. CSLs can push it so much over the double cap) then that's fine too, but it shouldn't apply to the amount of Strength that can be added. Strength is restricted to the number of DCs in the actual HA/HKA, period. Everything else is a campaign guideline.

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

Yep. Exactly. Of course, this change to the rules might well mean using different stats for weapons than are given in the standard weapons table (I'm planning on visiting the table in some detail myself to consider changes), so I'm not endorsing those as the actual values to use for those weapons.

Re: Use it, and it's gone?

Well done, and rep. Interesting notion having, "Setting Powers," that depend on character buying or somehow being granted powers of their own. I'd be hesitant to use it too often, but I think the occasional concept implemented this way could add a lot of flavor.

Re: Presti's Homogeneous Damage and Str Min Rules

Oh, and:

Thrown Objects: The thrown object simply becomes a Ranged HA with a number of d6s of normal damage equal to half its Body+PD. Rules for lifting and distance are standard, using the character's Strength.

I'm considering using this rules variation for an upcoming game. I'm going to state right up front that I am not interested in hearing why you would not use this yourself. The purpose of creating this thread is for constructive brainstorming: what other changes would you apply to complement these changes? how would you build or rebuild (standard or other) weapons to make use of them? how would you build characters differently based on the changes? what similar modifications do you use, or have you considered using, and why?

So, here it is:

Strength: Does no damage on its own, but is used for contested rolls such as resolving Grabs (who has control and can apply a dependent maneuver to do damage, not the damage itself), Shoves, Disarms, etc. It is also not used for breaking out of Entangles, since that requires doing damage. (If you cannot seem to justify the SFX of this, place some kind of constraint on the relationship between Str and HA, a la, "Figured Characteristics.")

Hand Attack: This is not a variation on Strength, but is a separate Attack Power, costing 5 Base Points per d6N (or partial 3 points per d3N), with no mandatory Limitation applied. You may add up to one DC to the attack per 5 points of Strength, but these DCs cannot exceed the DCs in the HA (this is an absolute hard cap on Strength alone, and is independent of whatever other damage maximums--such as "doubling of Base DCs"--a GM may impose). Every character gets 1d6 HA as an Everyman Ability, which they may buy up (to represent "natural strength/power/fighting ability" or similar SFX, rather than buying a separate HA power distinct from their natural one) or sell back to 1d3 or 0 if they really want to. A character's Everyman HA normally serves as the basis for Martial Arts damage as well. In games with Normal Characteristic Maxima, the standard maximum for HA should be 2d6.

Hand Killing Attack: As standard, costs 15 points per d6K (or partial 5 points per +1K; 10 points per +d3K). You may add up to one DC to the attack per 5 points of Strength, but these DCs cannot exceed the DCs in the HKA.

Strength Adds (+1/2): May be applied to attacks which do not normally allow Stength to be added to damage. You may add up to one DC to the attack per 5 points of Strength, but these DCs cannot exceed the DCs in the attack.

Strength Minimum (additional -0 to -1/4 on Focus Limitation): This is no longer a Limitation. Instead, it is an option for powers in a Universal Focus, normally worth an additional -1/4 in Limitation value. The system effect of a Strength Minimum is that each power in the Focus to which the Strength Minimum applies cannot be used unless the character using the Focus uses at least half as many points of Strength as the Active Points in the power (a greater value of Strength may be chosen when the power is built, but does not increase the value of the Limitation; a smaller value of Strength may be chosen, but drops this option to adding 0 to the Focus Limitation). If appropriate for the campaign, the GM may change the multiplier to something other than 1/2 (e.g. 1/4 or 3/4), but this should not normally change the value added to the Focus Limitation. Note that the character who "owns" the Focus may be limited by the Strength Minimum in rare circumstances, such as when low on End or when affected by a Drain. (Note that Strength Minimum no longer reduces the amount of damage applying your Strength to a weapon adds; it is simply a minimum you need to use the weapon.)

Dexterity Minimum, Intelligence Minimum, Ego Minimum, etc. (-0): Each equivalent to Strength Minimum, but use the given Characteristic instead. Note that the amount of the Characteristic needed is based on its value, not its point cost (so a 40 Active Point power would require a 20 Dexterity for the default 1/2 AP requirement, not 10). These aren't normally as limiting as Strength Minimum because use of the given Characteristics costs no End. However, if Costs Endurance has been applied to the owning character's applicable Characteristic, or the GM thinks it is appropriate for some other reason, he may still allow an additional -1/4 on the Focus Limitation for these options. This can normally only be applied to the usual 10-based Characteristics; if applied to unusual Characteristics or abilities (e.g. Speed), the GM must decide how it applies.

Re: Rules on Hiking? [6e]

Hmm. Interesting idea. Consider Speed as costing End for purposes of LTE use.

Re: Rocky's One-Hit-KO Punch

Hmm. +4 with PS: Boxing?

(Agreed on the Haymaker+MA being a no-no; Haymaker itself is a maneuver and can't be mixed with others in a single attack.)

Re: The Scaling of Damage Reduct

Nice, though (even as someone who loves math) the arithmetic for things other than simple tenths and quarters and such would stink during play unless maybe you have a calculator or computer at hand. I mean, can you really imagine reducing damage by one eleventh each time? A+ for the theory though (rep).

Re: Rolling for initiative

I've used a random roll for starting Segment before, with a rolling schedule of delays between Phases. I also added some random delays in certain circumstances (such as when someone recovers from being Stunned). It can get a little tricky, but with a little practice and some experienced players I think it could work well. Didn't really mess with Dexterity ordering within the Segment, though.

Re: NND vs Barrier

This entire thing can be solved easily: Don't let "Barrier" be a valid defense for Attacks Versus Alternate Defense (with or without All Or Nothing) and let the SFX sort that one out as needed.

 

I know one power in the Powers Books defines specifically as "Barrier surrounding the target" (bubbled) amongst the defenses.

Yeah. If you're going to do something like that, make the defense some kind of "barrier" (note the lower-case "B", as opposed to the name of the Power). (Some) powers that use Barrier might count, and SFX is going to dictate when and how. And yeah, it shouldn't be some defense that is already a defense against the power, so it had better be on a NND attack that has Indirect, or in some way apply to some relatively common circumstances that the (B/b)arrier wouldn't normally protect against.

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

Finally you want something here that is indestructible. Barrier is the obvious choice for creating something that is very tough and inanimate. 60 points gets you a human sized opaque barrier that has 10 Body and 12/12 defence' date=' and is anchored to the ground. Not indestructibe, by any means, but interestingly tough.[/quote']

I'd use Images (including the Touch Group). Indestructible. Yes, with a Perception Roll someone would be able to tell it's not, "real," but that'd just give them a clue that you are, "invulnerable/extradimentionalized," so who cares.

Re: NND vs Barrier

Possible' date=' sure, but not [b']free[/b]. If you want the psychokinetic power to squeeze the air out of someone's lungs, with the only proviso is that you can see them, then you ought to buy at least LOS on the NND. If you want some sort of meson based NND ray that can go through any intervening barriers, then you ought to buy Indirect for it.

Isn't that what I said? "You could have a NND that's Indirect enough to get through...." As in, if you've applied the Indirect Advantage, this is how it might interact....

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

Sounds good to me, with the provisions Matt mentions about still affecting the "real/physical" world.

But it might not be appropriate in all games and settings. I've always played EDM as being pretty dependent upon the dimensional geometry/cosmology of the game setting. Some settings may allow for an infinitely diverse set of dimensions, so you can basically "carve out your own" for whatever the power of the moment needs to do, whereas some might have a pretty rigid structure of dimensions that powers need to fit into and obey the structure of. For example, in the Old World of Darkness you couldn't just pop into whatever realm you wanted; you had to go from the real world to some layer of the Near Umbra, and from there possibly into particular pocket realms, other layers, and/or the Far Umbra. Similarly in most D&D cosmologies you have to go from "the Prime Material" plane to the Astral or Ethereal planes, and from there to different major and minor planes, BUT D&D often also leaves a lot of room open to things like, "pocket dimensions."

The time travel aspect of it is also going to be highly dependent upon the rules of the game universe: how it handles timelines, paradoxes, and objective vs. subjective time. Jumping purely into the future and skipping periods of time is probably the safest and least controversial application though, so you're probably pretty "portable" if you stick to that alone.

Re: NND vs Barrier

I'd think all kinds of constructs would be possible. You could have a NND that's Indirect enough to get through most Barriers, but if the defense is still being protected by a Barrier that provides Mental Defense or something, it still won't get through that one (or at least it won't affect the things on the other side unless there's something getting in the way of their taking advantage of the Barrier's Mental Defense). It might be hard to think of SFX for all such mechanics, but certainly they should be possible and even simple if you do run into a concept that calls for it.

Re: NND vs Barrier

Walls and Barriers have at least 1 Body. Unless a NND does Body and can reduce it to 0, or the Barrier is transparent to the appropriate type of attack (physical/energy), the NND can't get through it. It's not the Barrier's PD/ED or other type of Defense that stops the NND, it's the Barrier's Body.

Re: How Do You Build Sneezing Powder?

How about simply a Change Environment that causes someone to have to make an Ego roll or something (at whatever penalty) to incant? It makes it less certain, but it sure makes up for it with simplicity.

Re: Armour Piercing in Champions 6e

Then the passage in the description of Entangle is entirely redundant and unnecessary. Don't forget I specifically asked Steve if that passage was a redundant restatement of the "double cost for defensive characteristics" rule. He could have said "yes" and be done with it. Instead' date=' his non-response leads me to conclude that said passage should be read to have an effect, namely that Entangle BODY is double cost before adjustment. You will note that no such passage is in the Barrier section of the rulebook.[/quote']

Personally I think it has to do with the difference between the cost of Entangle and the cost of Body/PD/ED. It costs 5 points to add (an average of) 1 Body to an Entangle, and 5 points to add +1 rPD, +1 rED. Those are different from the normal costs of Body and rPD/rED. (And it isn't necessarily obvious that you can adjust an Entangle power use/instance's Body, rPD, and rED without mucking with the original power.) Note also that Barrier has the standard cost for Body and rPD/rED. I guess I would expect the Adjustment cost for rPD/rED to be 3 (double the usual 3/2 cost) instead of 2 (double the usual Non-Resistant PD/ED Characteristic cost of 1) though.

Re: Cause vomit power...

If you're going with Mental Powers Based on Con, you might also want something like AVAD: Power Defense (+0) (or some form of Life Support or something).