griffinman01

Bigbywolf,

DOH! Didn't notice the time charges. Lol

 

With that I was able to upgrade to +3 PER, reduce AoE to 125m, change to time charges, and it comes to a 24pt power. Or a 2f slot.

 

Oh, the "limited: common" is to represent it can't work in a confined space.

80% of the game will take place in a city. Since he can't use it in buildings, or even, say an alley, I felt the limitation would be deserved.

 

I went with an explosion to represent the "fading" of the light further from the flare.

So first 45m would be very well lit up(+3), the next 40m would be fading a bit(+2), and last 40m wouldn't be as bright.(+1).

 

I might be trying for a little to much realism maybe...

Looks good to me.  I would go with explosion as well rather than an AoE but, if you're looking to save some points, thematically you could probably drop it down to half that range since 125 meters is pretty big (about 400 feet radius).  Granted, if you want this to be like the things they used in like WW2 where they were meant to illuminate an entire battlefield, then it's fine as is.  But, if you're just looking for the immediate area, going down to 64 or so is probably fine.

If you wanted to do the cone effect then it would just be a similar build to what you have minus some of the constraints and probably 16m at best for range.

I find that the usefulness of your skills depends entirely on the GM.  If your GM never puts you in a situation where you'd need to use skills (as in some campaigns that focus on combat) then skills are essentially dead points.  However, if your GM puts out the effort and/or rewards people for coming up with alternative solutions, then they become vastly more important.

Likewise, the number of points you put into a skill depends on the GM and how he assesses penalties to the rolls.  As people have stated a 13- will pass about 80% of the time so anything more than that is a waste of points if your GM doesn't assign penalties such as rushing through the skill (picking a lock in 5 seconds is a lot harder than if you had 5 minutes) or use skill vs skill contests (trying to hack a hacker is a lot harder than a normal person).  So there's little need to boost skills up to 17- or so unless your GM regularly gives you steep penalties.  A -4 penalty to the roll on that 13- (80 % success) will tank it down to a 9- (39% Success) while going from a 17- (98% success) to a 13- (80% success) isn't so bad.

Basically it boils down to the kind of campaign your GM is running and how he's running it.

An issue with using reduced movement + TK STR to simulate gravity is that a weak but swift character with  good CV can avoid it with a combination of lots of running and escape from grab rolls: sounds like most martial artist would be able to negate high gravity fields - but they are precisely the sort of character that gravity SHOULD affect.

 

We do not have a power that affects gravity, and gravity in game is a meta-effect.  The problem is that the mechanics lead to illogical results (like the martial artist being able to largely ignore high gravity built with TK/reduced movement).

 

I don't think there is a way around it except to house rule something with Change Environment or fall back on old faithful: transform.  You could transform a target so that their mass increases (which is generally a reasonable approximation of high gravity) or the whole planet to increase gravity.

I tried to get around the swift character idea with the AoE TK grab.  If you're hitting the DCV 3 hex rather than the character, you're able to pin them far better.  At that point you have to deal with actually escaping the grab and then it's a matter of your strength vs theirs, which if you put your strength high enough, you make it hard for non-bricks to get out of it.

Granted, like you said, this isn't a perfect solution.  There really isn't one, which is why I would hand wave most of the minor parts of it and also only use this kind of thing for cinematic purposes.  Anyone who could do this much to everyone would be way overpowered, so most of the build is meant for one or two "shock and awe" phases before the fight begins (you know, the typical "you're nothing to me" and then he overestimates his abilities and gets taken down because he isn't taking you seriously bit)

You could also consider just ignoring the 10-point minimum buy for martial arts altogether. I've seen this several times with people just starting to pick up a martial art, where they learn one maneuver, like a side kick, and for the duration of a sparring session all they do is throw side kicks because it's all they got. You'd still have to do something for balance purposes, like limit this to 3-point maneuvers or else impose a predictability penalty after the first couple of side kicks.

I, for one, have never worried about the 10 point minimum for Martial Arts.  People pick up tricks on their own all the time, they're not always part of a structured fighting discipline.  A kid growing up in a rough neighborhood probably wouldn't know how to fight properly, but he probably knows enough to throw a kidney punch and get out of a grab.

Personally I've always thought that Gravity Manipulation needs like 3-4 powers to get it to work correctly.  I recently put together a high-powered super-villain similar to Graviton from the Avengers episode mentioned earlier.  I looked at a ton of different ideas and how things happen in that fight and pretty much came up with the following powers as needed to fit what I was looking for.

1) Change Environment for Negative movement - This is the only real way to simulate being pinned to the ground (or lifted up) since AoE Telekinesis you can break out of and be able to move normally.  That being said, I think it's wholly believable for someone to "Push" themselves enough to get to their feet and walk a few inches.  You see it all the time in comics and such so I think having the CE be LESS than most people's total movement is proper.

2) Telekinesis AoE - This is the second half of the "Pin people to the ground" (ie the part where people can get crushed by having the extra weight push them down).  I think this is necessary because having enough force to keep you pinned to the floor would do more than just keep you rooted.  It'll potentially break bones and cause enough pressure to black someone out.  Having it linked to the Change Environment gives you the effect of being pinned and taking damage from the TK grab, which forces you to "push" yourself to get to your feet (ie break the grab) and then fight the gravity (still being affected by the negative movement change environment).  Plus this will also be useful for when your character wants to lift and toss a group of people away.

3) Missile Deflection - This is more of a flavor thing, but being able to redirect the center of gravity of objects seems appropriate.  You see these kind of people tossing boulders and other objects aside and this is the easiest way to make that happen.

4) Flight - These guys are always flying so they need to have something for that.  I don't like to mess with the UAA Flight so this is strictly for the guy's personal use.

Now, as I said, this was for a high-powered super villain.  He cost around 600 points in powers alone so this is not feasable as a hero (nor would I allow it because this would be pretty damn powerful and make it a bitch to try and GM against).  I do have a hero who has a VERY limited form of gravity manipulation that really only affects a single target.  We did that one as TK since it's not an area and, again, I think the ability to use strength to "push" out of it and resist the force of gravity is perfectly reasonable.  Like with everything in this game, there's a dozen ways to do any power idea.  Picking the right one is up to you and how you want to flavor it and how 'realistic' you want it to be.  Also, I'm not above handwaving a few of the minor rules snags to make things easier to work around.

Re: Suppress Ego variant.

 

If reducing Ego to 0 doesn't lower DCV I'd suggest adding Suppress Dexterity to the build in some fashion other the Incapacitated victim is just just as evasive in combat as normal.

Lowering EGO doesn't affect DCV so I added in the DEX suppression to it to help account for that. It's a pretty clean build and works fine with 5th edition. I think the Change Environment build only works well in 6th based on what people said here. I'm sure I can get the build to function well enough by altering the base cost as per the 6th rules, but, since this is pretty much a GM only power, I'm content to use the suppress and sort of 'hand-wave' the effect.

Thanks for the input!

12 The Sick Stick: Change Environment (-6 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll' date=' Long-Lasting 1 Turn, Stunning) (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), 4 Charges (-1), No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Has no effect on targets with Resistant Defense or appropriate Life Support (-1/2) [4']

Where exactly are the rules for Stunning on a Change Environment? I don't have a 6th edition book and my 5th edition one (as well as the hero software) doesn't have that as an option and I'm curious as to how much it costs to add that ability. One other consideration, by using it as a change environment, which is AoE by default, even at no range, would you be targeting the character or the hex with that build? That could be potentially an issue since the suppress option can be easily dodged, much more so than a DCV=3 hex.

In any case, both the Change Environment or EGO suppress sound like good options. I'm not too worried about "balance" since this will be something that NPCs or villains would use, thus the players wont be able to use them unless they disarm one from a guy. Fortunately my play group doesn't have any rule Nazis and, since I GM most of the time, I just have to find something close to it that doesn't piss everyone off. I guess I'm kind of lucky like that.

. You could push yourself to try and recover, which makes sense, and the fact that it only lasts a turn means that, while uncomfortable, it wont do any lasting damage. It's meant to quickly disable someone for a short time (assuming it affects them) in a non-lethal manner.

 

Is Pushing your Ego a core rule in 6th?

The most important question to ask when building a power like this is "what is the appropriate defense?".

 

If the effect is making someone sick, doesn't that suggest that a high Constitution should be a defense? That's the idea behind the Stunning option of Change Environment.

 

I see it more as being able to muster the will to act despite the extreme nausea, cramping pain and other effects. But you could make the Entangle vs Con in that case or against the Higher of the two. In all honesty, I think any of the suggested methods work roughly as well and which is more "accurate" is a matter of taste.

 

Wouldn't that fall into the category of having resistant defense (in the case of robots that can't be stunned in the first place), or having the appropriate life support (no internal organs)?

I thought about the entangle idea but I don't think it fits. It's not really holding them in place and the entangle wouldn't really disorient people like I was looking for. The more that I think about, the EGO suppress idea is probably the easiest and cheapest. I built it like this:

The Sick Stick:

Suppress EGO 8d6 (40 active points)

OAF (-1)

No Range (-1/2)

4 Continuing charges lasting 1 turn each (-1/4)

Does not affect mental defenses (-1/4)

Has no effect on targets with Resistant Defense or appropriate Life Support (-1/2)

Total Cost 11 points

8d6 will drop most normal heroes and weak-willed heroes to negative EGO on average which will mean that they can't take any new actions until they make a recovery roll (which would be less than 9-). It makes it difficult to get through, but not impossible. You could push yourself to try and recover, which makes sense, and the fact that it only lasts a turn means that, while uncomfortable, it wont do any lasting damage. It's meant to quickly disable someone for a short time (assuming it affects them) in a non-lethal manner.

Supress EGO would be one way to go.

 

At 0 EGO, the target can take no actions unless they make an EGO roll of 9 or less.

 

You might even be able to get a 1/4 limitation for not affecting targets defenses vs Mental Powers

I had an odd thought after watching Kick Ass 2 regarding how to build something similar to the "Sick Stick" where the power physically stuns/incapacitates the person without doing any real damage (just extreme discomfort). The idea is that you would get hit with the power and get so disoriented or discombobulated that you are physically incapable of taking an action (very similar to being stunned). So, something like intense vertigo where the person is thrown off balance and can't take an action, a power that causes someone to throw up/double over in pain, or being tazed. I had a couple of ideas but none of them seemed to fit the bill:

1) NND attack (defense is appropriate life support) that will stun the character through defenses. I'm not looking for it to do that much damage though.

2) Mental Illusions based on CON - The effect would probably work but is seems like an odd way to do it.

Anyways, I'm interested in seeing what you guys think would be the best way to build something similar.

Couldn't you buy an HA with the NND advantage (or just HKA for the killing strike) and a limitation for use only on the specific attack? That's pretty much what they did with Tiger Lily in the referenced book so I don't see why you couldn't do the same here.

I want to stress how useful the HeroDesigner software is. Nothing can kill enthusiasm for a character faster than having to juggle point costs, which is something the software calculates for you automatically. One of my very first Champions characters (back before they called it the Hero System) used a fire Elemental control and, when I was 15 and trying to build it, the cost juggling almost made me want to throw the idea away. Thankfully the 3rd edition we were using had an early DOS version of the software that made it 100 times easier. Now the software makes character sheets that are compact, readable, and have all the pertinent information for your character (background, combat modifiers, what phases they act in, and even a picture to add flavor). Plus you can easily make changes to the sheet without having to re-pencil in the entire power or erase things to make them fit.

Also, as an added thing to post 2, if you're looking for awesome miniatures to represent your characters in the game, I suggest stuff from the Heroclix minis game. I had a ton of them from way back and they really help make the game board easier to keep track of and look 10 times more badass. Likewise, I came up with the notion to use a white board and dry erase markers to use for a changeable battle map. It's a clean, unobtrusive way to sketch out the fight arenas and add obstacles that you can change at will. Finally, most smart phones have some kind of dice roller app (i found one for the Hero system that calculates body and stun damage on the iPhone) that can be helpful if you're GMing and you don't want to calculate a bunch of attacks on the fly.

Have Fun!

Those are all great ideas and I think I've come up with a simple method that any character can use (since none of my guys bought analyze or deduction). I'm thinking that Conversation would be the base skill, since the situation I listed was a simple question in the middle of a conversation (ie, "hey, didn't I see your face somewhere?" "I don't know what you're talking about") and then PER as a complementary (picking up any subtle nervous ticks or tells from the target) versus the target's acting (telling a convincing lie). Since acting isn't a given skill like conversation is in most cases I think it fits since not everyone can lie convincingly.

Anyways, thanks for all the input.

I'll be starting a sci-fi/Dark Champions scenario (think space bounty hunters) and I know that there will be times where the PCs want to try and analyze if someone just lied to them. I'm not talking about through an interrogation but through conversation. Say you walk up to a target at a party and ask them if a question, what skill would you use to determine if they just lied? I was thinking that it would be Interrogation, but you're not coercing them through manipulation or torture so I started thinking it might be acting since the Ultimate Skill mentions that you can use that to fake things like an injured limb or emotions. Anyways, I just wanted to see what would be the best skill to use from the list.

The other thing to remember about the game mechanics of "recoil" in Hero is that weapons on full auto add +5 to their STR Min.

 

In my campaign, a "recoil compensator" gives the user a +5 STR bonus, with the limitation only vs. recoil. Done. No more recoil.

 

I've used Precise Sprayfire in play on a number of occasions and I've seen what it can do: IMHO it probably should come with a Caution, possibly even a Stop sign.

 

Precise Sprayfire II has a caution in the book and also has a good way for the GM to curb it in the power description by limiting the number of shots by half the number of shots fired. I've ruled it using that suggestion so if a player uses PSII with a x5 autofire weapon, they can only get the benefit for the first 3 shots. So if you need an 11 to hit, 11 = 1 shot, 10 = 2, 9 = 3, 8 = 3, 7 = 4, 6 = 4, 5 = 5. It's worked out pretty well. It's still powerful but it's not as bad as it could be. Plus the 1/2 DCV hurts since pumping that kind of damage tends to draw a lot of fire afterwards.

Isn't there an optional skill in the APG that does just this' date=' changing the penalty from -2 to -1? [/quote'] Yep. APG1 page 35 New forms of the Autofire Skill PRECISE SPRAYFIRE II

 

It's also in the Ultimate Skill pg 86. Here's the actual text:

 

PRECISE SPRAYFIRE II

The character can use Autofire against a single

target with great accuracy. Instead of hitting with

one shot for every 2 points he makes his Attack Roll

by, he hits with one shot for every 1 point he makes

the roll by. The GM may cap the number of hits at

some level (such as half the overall number of shots

fired), if necessary.

 

This costs 5 points and is an Autofire skill, meaning that it takes a full phase (unless you have Rapid Attack: Range which makes it take a half phase) and reduces your DCV by half.

Depends on the nature of the special effect. Generally I would throw out the following guidelines; Damage: Resistant Defenses. Movement and Characteristic Rolls: Environmental Movement and/or Life Support Perception Rolls: Enhanced Senses to counter or make sensory deprivation moot. Wind speed: Strength or Environmental Movement Penalties to Range or other Combat Mods: PSLs Telekinetic Strength: STR vs STR roll. ALL: Change Environment - Opposite Effect and maybe even Desolidification

I think this sums it up. Remember that each of the penalties that you suffer are due to some kind of environmental hazard and all it takes is a little bit of thought on how you could circumvent those hazards. Whenever someone uses Change Environment they have to specify what they're doing. When they create a field that reduces running, they have to specify that it's because the ground turned to mud, meaning environmental movement would get around it (or if you found some means of creating a solid surface to stand on such as a force wall). Dense fog can cause reduced PER, in which case other vision types (IR, UV, X-Ray) would penetrate it. Damage from High winds and intense heat/cold could be counteracted by creating a force wall to shield you (provides resistant defense to prevent burns or debris).

Basically it takes some creative thinking and the OK from the GM for ways to get around it.

AoE with selective target would work, but it would affect everything in the AoE and not be limited by a number of targets. You could do Autofire but you would probably want to get it with some of the autofire skills, otherwise you'll be blowing up a lot of ground. I'd at the very least get:

Accurate Sprayfire - Allows you to target multiple targets with a flat -1 OCV rather than -1 OCV per hex fired into

Skipover Sprayfire - When targeting multiple targets you don't waste shots in the unoccupied hexes between targets. You get a -1 OCV penalty for using this.

You could also get Concentrated Sprayfire - Allows you to shoot each target more than once.

Going with autofire works best thematically IMO. It takes a full phase to use (requires a second to lock on before firing) and halves your DCV (gotta keep your targets lined up for the lock). Plus it also allows you to spread your attacks however you see fit and keeps track of how much ammo you're shooting off (so you can shoot 5 missiles per salvo or 10). Also, since these are separate attacks rather than an AoE, misses will scatter and hit random locations (much like real missiles). Lastly it still gives you the option to fire off normally at a half phase so that you can shoot without the lock in case you need to.

So, while AoE would work, I think the autofire option fits the power build better and provides you with more options.

I know that the body of inanimate substances is based on mass. So don't know the exact answer' date=' but I know that if for example a liter of water was 1 BOD, then 2 BOD is 2 litres, 3 BOD is 4 liters, 4 BOD is 8 liters, etc. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary buys Power Defense as a Defense Power[/quote']

 

That's the best/easiest way. 5th ed revised has 1.6 kg of an unliving substance (ie water) having 1 body and it doubles for each additional body (so 3.2 kg has 2 body and 6.4 kg has 3). As for defense I would assume 0 PD/ED under most circumstances. The only times I think it would change would be high velocity impacts (bullets, falling objects, etc) or due to special effects such as those mentioned by Greywind. Since you're using it to simulate brewing a potion, I would assume 0 defense.

I don't see too much of an issue because of a few things that you didn't mention:

1) The summoned creatures have to spend their first phase to recover from being summoned (going by 5th ed rev here so disregard this if it changed in 6th ed). So, it takes their second available phase before they can act at all.

2) They can be targeted and attacked. Given that they're actual beings people can shoot them down before they reach their target (just like real missiles).

3) People can outrun them. Again, just like real missiles. Anyone who has high movement or high speed can physically keep away from them.

4) No personal immunity. If I was playing a melee character I'd grab the summoner, hold him tight, and then laugh when all the missiles take us both down (but hopefully leave me standing). If the target keeps close to the summoner, anything like that could backfire so you have to think about the situation as well.

It's a cool ability and there's nothing about it that seems broken or overpowered to me. I had someone similar who could create little suicide drones (which is why I know about a lot of these disadvantages) and it worked out pretty well. I really had to watch it sometimes, but it could be really good for support or to take out someone who you can't get line of sight on,

If the character doesn't have to abort to the maneuver' date=' it's as simple as holding your action. When an opponent threatens your ally, take your action to move in the way and perform the block. I don't recall the rules for blocking for someone else, but I think the option is in one of those thick books.[/quote']

 

The basic rules (5th ed rev) were that you had to be adjacent to either the attacker or the person you want to block for. You can then block as normal but with a -2 OCV penalty and you wouldn't get to act before the other guy like a normal block.

Another thing to note is that "Believeably Human" is far more about Maxima and what is allowed than it is about point totals. There are any number of real world athlete's and such that you could easily build on well over 100 points if you wanted to' date=' and even if you are allowed to buy "gear" without CP most Elite Special Forces types are going to rack up the points really quickly.[/quote']

 

That's not even counting skills. Most normal people have a ton of skills that go beyond what would be considered an 'everyman' skill. I would have a 12- for at least 3 science skills (Chemistry, Biochemisty, and Genetics) based on the book description and another few at 11- just from college. Anyone with the lowest belt in a martial art would have probably 3 martial skills (strike, grab, throw) and that would run around 10 points.

 

Batman is an excellent example of someone who would be "normal" from a characteristics standpoint but would get expensive based on gear, skills, and martial abilities.

And some people say _I_ overcomplicate things. Side Effects has an option to "effect the environment rather than the Power user" and if you use that option' date=' presumably the character gets defenses. Lucius Alexander Side Effect: Palindromedary[/quote']

 

So, if you opted to have it affect the environment, would you just specify the side effect as something like an 8d6 explosion (costs roughly 60 points) centered on the user? Sounds reasonable.

 

As for the activation roll, I would give that a pass since it does eventually get an activation roll. Since it's optional to get to that point, I would maybe tone down the limitation by 1/4. The other option, as IndianaJoe3 mentioned, would be to have a secondary effect that would have the boostable charges and a base activation roll of 15- (which would get worse as it's used), which means that the first boosted shot could potentially fail.