tylermcdowell

Re: Superhero Images

Another one that might be of interest. http://heromorph.com/heromorph2/modules/myalbum4/photo.php?lid=2446&cid=5

Re: Superhero Images

A picture I made while back. A larger version can be seen here: http://heromorph.com/heromorph2/modules/myalbum4/photo.php?lid=2319

Re: Time running out on Marvel comics on DVD

It seems to work beautifully for Studio Foglio.

Good for them. They have how many titles?

It seems to me that once again Marvel is trying a new version of an old game that blew up in their faces back in the late 80s/ early90s. They want to control every part of their business and not rely on outside distribution networks. Remember when Marvel tried create their own distribution house, bought warehouses, a trading card company, and I believe a paperback printing house? How many times have they went bankrupt since? Twice?

Re: Time running out on Marvel comics on DVD

If you--like me--thought it was cool that whole 40+ year runs of selected Marvel comics were available for sale on a single DVD and figured you'd get around to buying them sooner or later, you might want to do that sooner rather than later.

 

I just purchased the entire run of X-Men, Avengers, Spiderman, and Fantastic Four (and Silver Surfer as a toss in) because I learned that Marvel has not renewed the company's license to sell the DVD's because Marvel intends to run a subscription service instead. The following links will illustrate what I am talking about:

 

The products:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url?%5Fencoding=UTF8&store-name=software&search-type=ss&index=software&field-brandtextbin=GIT%20Corp

 

The story behind the products going away:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1196502306203590.xml&coll=2

Deja Vu! I seem to recall a little comic company called CrossGen that thought "Gee, we can put our comics online so people can read them on the internet. That will make our sales increase and make lots of money!"

Re: Superhero Images

This is the closest I could get (using Hero Machine) to what the costume is supposed to look like for one of my longest-played characters, Bloodbird.

 

(I used Hero Machine instead of a scan of what I was using because — in my own opinion — I can't draw to save a life.)

 

[ATTACH]26560[/ATTACH]

I saw your picture and I liked it. So much so that I did this. I took a few liberties with the costume and had no idea about powers. But I hope it is passible.

Re: Fantasy Art Thread

WOW!, What did you use?

 

Inquiring minds

 

QM

Daz Studio for 95% and Photoshop Elements to touch up the last 5%. Bigger versions are posted here

http://heromorph.com/heromorph2/modules/myalbum4/photo.php?lid=2107&cid=3

and

http://heromorph.com/heromorph2/modules/myalbum4/photo.php?lid=2117&cid=3

Re: Fantasy Art Thread

And another I did for fun.

Re: Fantasy Art Thread

I figure this old thread needs to be dusted off a bit, so a picture I did for a friend.

Re: Comics are getting too steamy...

My local comics store has a shelf specifically for younger readers. They've got books like Owlie' date=' Akiko, Archie, Asterix, Teen Titans Go!, and some other superhero books geared towards kids. Next time I'm in the store I'll try to remember to take a look at that shelf and see what family-friendly books they recommend.[/quote']

 

I was getting my daugher some of the Batman Adventures written for kids. While there was some good stories (better than the "mature" Batman), it was obviously written for pre-teens and companies do not support them longer than the toys they are based on sell at Wal-Mart. My son is now getting into comics and really other than Scooby-Doo what is there?

 

Maybe the writers have watched too many episodes of Sex in City and think that all that sells today. Forgive me while I start digging through old boxes in Comic stores for back issues when the good guys fought bad guys and there wasn't the immature bed hopping meldrama stolen from Melrose Place, Everwood, OC, or what ever trash passes for TV these days.

Re: If Marvel and DC really *do* collapse

Nothing wrong with reading TPB or even novels that way. I just see a relationship to how Marvel and DC have geared their product to the TPB rather than the tradition comicbook and the decline in the quality and the dwindling number of comic book stores nation wide. I believe that having comic books stores as a focal point for the readers strengthens the industry as a whole.

With more people waiting for the TPB, the store buys less of each monthly issue. If a store buys X issues of a book, they get a break on the price they pay and the shipping cost is spread thinner. Fewer issues means more expense and that means less gross profits. It also means that the store cannot get a few extra issues to have on hand for someone wanting to pick-up a run of 10-12 issues at one time. Take out the expense of having a store, employees, and such, the net profit is such that many cannot make it. As more go out of business and with few if any newstands that carry comic books, what is to get kids interested in comics and keep them interested?

I am not sure I follow what you mean by "collectors" copies.

Re: If Marvel and DC really *do* collapse

Collapse is a bit over stating it. Change and evolve is a better way to see it. My friend says that comic have been and always will be cyclical. Something will happen to shake things up and start the cycle over. It may not be a cheap newprint magazine with ads for x-ray specs and sea monkies, but I do hope it is not something like what most the industry seems to be today.

As a kid, I remember waiting for the day that the next issue of the Avengers would arrive in the mail and the thrill of learning what happened next. Going to the drug store with my dad and him letting me get a couple of comics before going to get a haircut. Talking with friends about our favorites, barrowing and trading, and arguing who would beat who in a fight. The characters where inspiring because they were heroes. They fought the good fight win or loose, despite the flaws they had or bad art/writing.

Seems kids are more interested in which buttons get pushed in what order to do a backflip head slash in the latest video game. Or they are getting carted off to a before school/school/after school/evening class/weekend soccer games. The comic "heroes" are more "real"; meaning sex, violence, and flash over substance are used to sell the books.

I also hope that TPB eventually go away or the companies quit releasing them immediately after (and sometimes before) the end of every story arc. Give it a few years before the TPB comes out. Maybe make the TPB a totally seperate story altogether. Some comic shops rely on steady monthly issues as well as back issues for income. A potential customer can come in, flip through an issue, and if they like it "wait for the TPB" to come out.

Because each arc has to be self contained for the TPB, there isn't the next menace developing while the heroes take care of this one. In Marvel's case, each arc may or may not impact what happens in the next arc. A whole arc can be totally ignored if it is gets in the way. The continuity becomes confused, choppy, and the story suffers. I used to follow the X-Men, New Mutants, and X-Factor back when. A can't tell who is/is not alive or dead anymore in all the X-books these days. And at the price that they are, who can afford them?

Going to the comic shop isn't just a matter of walking in and getting what titles are out this week. It becomes a place to gather as a community with other people that enjoy comics. Kids, students, doctors, cooks, or anyone; they share a something in common. People meet, become friends and enjoy being a part of the tribe. This doesn't exist as much with video games. This I believe is what is "collapsing" in comic books these days.

As long as money can be made from movies, toys, and other licenses; the characters will not disappear. Really even if the DC comics only breaks even, Time Warner still makes a mint from owning the characters. Eventually, Marvel will be bought by some company. Sony and Hasbro could be two quick canidates that might, Disney also.

Perhaps something will happen like the Ninja Turtles that sparked garage comics, or another "Dark Knight Returns" that pulled Batman from the brink. Maybe Image will figure out that a monthly comic book comes out close to every 30 days and that it might take more than three issues for people to start reading the title. Maybe CrossGen will be revived and they will have learned that putting every issue online to be read is the quick path to bankruptcy. I don't know what it will be, but I think the fans and the generation of kids coming up are ready for it to happen.

Re: The downsides of the Iron Age

Even the "it's more realistic, less escapist" claim doesn't hold any water here. There's nothing more "realistic" about Spider Cannibal. It's escapism into a world of splatter-punk revenge fantasies rather than escapism into a world of Superheroes.

 

But then, Iron Age is sometimes very much about comic writers who no longer want to write about Superheroes.

It seems that the writers are more concerned with "the cause" what ever that maybe this week. It's more important to be PC and show the correct social attitude at the expense of story and continuity. Wasn't too long back that established Marvel characters were suddenly homosexual. There isn't a problem a character coming out of the closet as part of the storyline, but with the Two-gun Kid it was more a gimmick to sell the book. It was insulting to readers.

If that doesn't work, the story has to be "shocking" or "push the limits". That usually means sex, drugs, and blood/gore. What is it with Marvel Zombies and Spidey eating brains?

It seems that the art of telling a story is lost these days. I listened to an old sci-fi radio program not long back and was struck how good the story was. Early episodes of the Twilight Zone are like that also.

What is wrong with something light, uplifting, and maybe inspiring? I learned a bit from the comic book heroes when I was young. Spiderman wasn't perfect, but he kept going. It's something I try to teach my kids and seeing it reinforced in a media they enjoy is very welcome.

Re: How does a world die?

Looking at the exitmundi site, Nemesis is listed. I heard about it on a radio program I listened to driving home from work on Tuesday afternoons. Had paranormal investigator as a guest, Dr. Michael Lynch. He has a website, http://www.michael-lynch.com/x/. Might be good for an idea or giggle.

Re: How does a world die?

If I recall correctly from the John Carter Mars books, the gravity wasn't enough to keep the oxygen atmosphere from escaping into space and the oceans evaporated soon after. The people developed a system of atmosphere regenerators that ran constantly and were more or less neutral. The end of Princess of Mars outlined all this.

There are many ways that the "end" can happen in books and movies. The Species movies used a alien killer virus that invaded a host, turning it into a hybrid alien killing machine so that the "invaded" planet would be sterilized of lifeforms before the aliens arrived. Stephen King's Book "The Stand" had it's superflu, the Captain Trips mentioned, that killed almost everyone. Expand it's targets to include most plants and not much will live after that.

An interesting one that was abounding in paranoia circles is Nemisis. It was supposedly a rouge planet 5-10 times the size of Jupitar passing between Earth and the sun. The resulting solar flares/storms, radiation, and gavitation distortions was supposed to kill everyone on earth, except for some US/Canadian government types that had secret bunkers built in North Dakota and Canada. This was supposed to take place about three years ago.

Then there are asteriods, comets, and such. There are a couple of moons around Uranus that actually swap orbits over time. If they should hit or get thrown out of orbit, then that could be enough to upset the solar system. One really big, sustained volcano eruption could in theory put out enough smoke to keep most plants from growing. (seems that if plants get taken out, most everything else follows.)

Nuclear war is a good choice. Even if radiation and fallout are "controled" there was an old sci-fi book that I cannot recall, that theorized the explosions would knock the Earth off it's axis and the people survived by flying a 747 to the south pole and it's warmed up as it moved toward the equator. (sounds like Waterworld.)

In short, if it is going to kill a world it seems it either has to be really small or really big.

Re: CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE: NotW -- Updating Villains

Wish I could rep you again for this suggestion.

*BTW tylermcdowell, I meant no criticism of your own comments, and I apologise if I came across that way.

Nothing to apologise for. I tend to be very blunt and say what I think. If anything you have pointed out many things intelligently and been very civil in all ways. Today was just one that I came across poorly

Re: CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE: NotW -- Updating Villains

This issue has been raised a few times in discussion here. Dr. D is a prime case, in fact the last time it was discussed, here, the response was quite favorable, including from Steve Long himself. Istvatha V'han is another oft-mentioned candidate for a sourcebook.

Given the number of threads, I don't try to read them all. Concidering that the one mentioned was last posted to in October 2003, it is older that I care to look. It was then and still is a good enough idea that saying one more time isn't a bad thing. Maybe with a few more prods it would actually happen.

You know, I have to admit that I'm a little ambivalent about writeup changes to these two villains in this book because I own Galactic Champions. Both Mechanon and Firewing (as well as the Slug, who Steve has already mentioned will be in NotW) are upgraded in that book, and I've already adopted tweaked versions of their writeups for my present-day Champs campaign. While I can see the desireablity of doing something with them for NotW, I doubt that I'll find much use for their character sheets.

To sound redundant, given the number of books (and price), I don't try to read them all. I have always found Firewing and Mechanon to be interesting characters. They just make my personal list for villians I would like to see updated, sheets or not.

Re: Comics are getting too steamy...

Keep in mind that in my study/hovel for my stuff, I have more than the required posters/prints/pictures of the fine ladies on the walls. But I have my POV as well.

The use of sex, violence, and other gimmicks are just that gimmicks. They are used to mask weak writing and plots. To compare comic books to movies, the truely great hollywood movies are the older ones that have little or no sex. It is all implied and handled behind the scenes. Today it is a surprise and worthy of a filler story in the evening news that a movie is a blockbuster and doesn't have sex.

I find it sad that I have to screen the comics my kids see to keep the sexed up ones away from them. By the time I was my oldest's age, I was well on my way to have a sizable collection of comic books. There isn't much today that I find suitable and the little there is usually is cancelled quickly.

Someone mentioned rust age further back in the posts. I am lucky that a close friend owns a comic store and follows the business very closely. He can quote the number of comic book stores and comic book warehouses over the past two, almost three, decades. The numbers are falling further and faster. Maybe the internet has something to do with it, maybe video games. I tend to see this as the dark age.

Re: Comics are getting too steamy...

That would make more sense. I had wondered if I had missed a reference to some obscure bit of American culture.

 

This is of course why I prefer to play Australian* characters in PBEMs, no matter where they are set. There's always at least a slight chance of missing some reference like this.

 

 

 

 

 

* Or some reasonable substitute, like my "son of the Phantom-homage" character, who comes from a vaguely East Timor-like island, but went to boarding school in Australia.

I love it, Australian rules superheros.

"Look out, Dr Destroyer has a mega-death lazer cannon!"

"ahhh that ain't a mega-death lazer cannon. Now this is a mega-death lazer cannon!"

Re: CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE: NotW -- Updating Villains

Forgive the suggestion, but some of the really major supervillians could be a book unto themselves. For example Doctor Destroyer. A major write-up of him, his history, long range plans, his major/minor minions, bases, and what not. If Viper rates a book, why not the other long time running big villians?

Course I am not a fan of official universes, but I am more than willing to borrow and steal from them.

Mechanon as mentioned would be one to include in an update. Perhaps with a few levels of upgrades? A Mark V, VI, VII..

Foxbat would have to be a must.

Firewing... as if he needs to be more powerful.

Grond. Doesn't matter if he got a boost in Ultimate Brick, the masses have spoken. (Perhaps the boost in power can be off set with some weakness or suggestions of how less powerful characters can roleplay stopping him other than using combat.)

LadyBlue. I don't know why, I just like her.

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

Of course the mystic stuff would be a jumping off point. Maybe the boogie men are aliens, stranded travelers from the future, or a Dr Moreau creation. The basic concept of UNTIL, I believe, is a group of normals (highly trained and equiped) going up against threats just below or low level super villains (though raw power is never a requirement for a good villian). This could be a small secret group or a large army leading the interstellar fleets of mankind against the strange unknown of space.

With a good, plausible origin to start from it is possible for the GM to freely develop the tone of the game as they wish. The offical history of UNTIL is so contrived and inconsistant that it is almost easier to scrap it and start over fresh if one has a different direction for UNTIL. As written they are UN cops with spiffy guns and such. Nothing wrong with UN Cops and robbers, just not my style.

When I was thinking about my vision of UNTIL, I thought using the boogie/mystery man approach that ideas can be stolen from the 50's giant bug, alien monster, mad scientist movies. Bond movies or GI Joe/Cobra are just as easy to steal from. Pulling stuff from cartoons like Speed Racer (just who does Racer X work for?) Johny Quest or even (a moment of silence for a personal childhood favorite.......) The New Adventures of Flash Gordon from the 70's.

Maybe I am strange or warped, I always figured that a good product for any RPG never dictated to a GM what was, but gave them a good concept that is easily adapted to their vision of a game world at the same time solid enough to help a new or weak GM get started. TSR started getting away from this in the late 80s with Dragonlance. Modules were written to follow the events as they were in the books. Later I began hearing gamers that moaned and groaned that the older dungeon crawls were so lame because there was no background or direction. They wanted a storyline and plot for them to follow. Isn't that what a GM is supposed to develop?

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

My general feeling is that (within the bounds of a world that has supers in the first place) the background of the game world should be plausible and reflective of what people are really like. It doesn't have to be particularly logical because people aren't either; but there should be some way to help suspend disbelief for the players.

 

I think the reason I dislike UNTIL (not simply the DoJ version, but the idea as a whole) is that it has a "tacked on" feel that just doesn't mesh well with the world I run my games in. (Of course, I feel that way about the Champions Universe in general, which is why we prefer the far richer campaign universe we've developed over 13 years of play.) UNTIL was largely created over a short span of real time to make up book for publication, and so lacks the organic feel of a campaign or comic that has evolved over a lengthy period of time with input from a number of disparate sources. If we someday create an UNTIL-analogue for our campaign, I think I'd prefer it to be slowly built over time like real organizations, complete with occasional missteps and reorganizations, rather than springing forth in total perfection like someone rubbed the genie's lamp.

Exactly.

Looking at real history there are several ways to have UNTIL start that fit. Keep in mind, I am coming with all of this off the cuff and all facts need to be checked.

Just prior and during WWII there were many organizations started to provide help and aid to war torn countries. UNICEF being the most famous. These were assigned to Allied control once the alliance was formed. When the Allies agreed on the formation of the UN it was agreed that these agencies would be transferred to the control of the United Nations.

Given the Hitler's belief and obsession with the occult, it also would make sense that there would be people that would work prevent the Nazi's from getting/learning/harnessing mystical powers. The concept worked well enough in the Indiana Jones movies and Hellboy. Allied command would be sceptical of these people but would see that there maybe something to what these nuts are talking about. Given their personalities and rather odd ideas, it would makes sense to create a agency that they would be assigned to for when they are needed... and out of the way.

Once the War was over and in the general rush to get things back to normal, it would be plausible that the boogie man agency would be given over to the UN along with the other civilian allied agencies. At this point the Un would have to figure out what to do with them. Maybe at somepoint they nuts saved FDR or the like and Eleanor Roosevelt used what influence she could to ensure that the new UNTIL survived. Then once there was the big monster stomp described in Defender of Freedom (or other things like an space invasion), there would be a reason to expand UNTIL's authority. If anything a history like this allows a GM to develop UNTIL to be used in a Pulp, Horror, Space, Superhero, or GI Joe/Cobra type campaign.

Though being an intellect challenged, UN hating, political zealot American lacking the sophistication that non-American's are blessed with in such abundance, it is impossible that I could even do the 15 minutes of internet research on the UN or read something of the history of the world to come up with such an idea.

Forgive the rant, Trebuchet. It was not directed at you.

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

 

I agree a world with supers and alien invasions would look different, but then, follow through on the argument! Do the world building. Write the background. Make me believe it! That's what being a good world-builder is all about - creating plausible suspension of disbelief. You don't get to take the easy road and then demand my buy-in with the handy admonition that, if my suspension of disbelief fails to kick in, I just wasn't imagining hard enough. Oh, puh-lease. What Quixotic Balderdash! Do the work. Give me something I can get into.

 

Von "the man whose imagination was hijacked" D-Man

Exactly the point. UNTIL as it is published just is too contrived trying to be all things to all people. Either have an UN that has enforcement power or follow a more real life approach having UNTIL fit. The only concept worse in the offical Champions Universe is the WW II "mystic shield" covering Europe.

Politics has nothing to do with my thoughts. I want Champions to be the best possible and pointing out what I feel are major flaws is how I try to help. A first rate game needs first rate products and writing. If anything, I see the discussion as fertile ground for GMs to develop their own adventures and plots. What if there is a power behind UNTIL that is a telepath and controling the world leaders to build UNTIL as written?

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

I think that there is a subset of Americans who like to think of themselves as bullied by and victims of the outside world (which they actually don't know much about). Since the collapse of the USSR there has been no single country that actually poses a threat to the United States. Therefore they need to come up with a bogeyman' date=' which is the UN.[/quote']

 

You are correct that many American's do not know much about the world beyond the local starbucks. Such is the state of education in the US.

 

I do not believe that the UN is a bogeyman. Rather it is more a private club for diplomats that issues resolutions that are at best ignored and worse actively made fun of. It in reality does very little to help keep the world safe and peaceful. Yes, I am aware of all the humanitarian work done in the name of the UN. I wonder what the UN does compares to what is done by the charities and religious organizations of the world.

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

tylermcdowell' date=' you present a logical and eloquent case. I just want to mention that the sourcebook [i']UNTIL: Defenders Of Freedom[/i] goes into a fair bit of detail on the progression of historical events (mostly supers-related) in the Champions Universe which differed from those in the real world, which create a more logical rationale for UNTIL to exist as it does.

Yes, I have the book and read it. UNTIL to me has never made much sense and I had hoped that the DoF would help. Unfortunately it did not and the more I read, I was torn between laughing myself silly or being deeply disappointed. A moon base, space station, two space shuttles, a small army of troops, equipment and no real mention of how is all gets paid for.

The explanation of the Tribunal Treaty does not seem well thought out or sensible. Given that politician and diplomats are reasonably intelligent, they would be aware that the USA, USSR, or China would not be willing to allow UNTIL to operate in their territories. Each would consider it an attempt by the others to gain a political advantage.

Also keep in mind that the UN ambassadors are appointed by the governments of the members and take their orders from those governments. It would be political suicide for a US President to have the US vote on the Security Council be yes even if they knew that the US Senate would never agree to treaty. Keep in mind that the Senate can block treaties from being ratified. It would be seen as weak and foolish. There is also the problems of US sovereignty and how international law would be applied. It would leave to many openings for a opponent to use against any politician that was publicly for UNTIL.

The idea that the US would not allow UNTIL to operate inside it’s borders but from the goodness of it’s heart would pay the lion’s share of the expense of UNTIL pushes the concept further over the edge.

It quickly becomes very messy and falls apart.

Re: why the UNITED NATIONS? (for global super-agency)

I have wondered how many people have looked into what the real life UN actually does, it's policies, resources, procedures, and objectives are.

The reason I say this is that long ago I read an interview of a science fiction author, who I do not remember. What stuck with me was his explaination of how create the world that the characters exist in. In short, if something is altered from real life as we know or entirely created from imagination, the author should have a reason for it that is plausible and well thought out. Even if it is not entirely revealed to the reader.

From what I have read of Official Champions history, it seems that it and real life have followed the same paths other than the superhero elements. The same major events have taken place with similar results. The world, the politics, and the human motivations in the real world are all much the same in the Champions universe. This is important to give new players a framework to base the game world on.

The major flaw with the UN/UNTIL is that there has never been an attempt to explain the glaring departures from the realty of what the UN is and what it would have to be in order to support an organization the size and scope of UNTIL. Amoung these are:

1. The UN is a diplomatic/humanitarian organization with no real power of enforcement.

2. The UN budget is far below what is required to train, equip, and maintain UNTIL.

3. Given the organization of the UN and the petty political bickering between the world governments, UNTIL would be neutered everytime it attempts to do the job it was given as the various sides fight to protect their own interests.

Even in comic books, these questions have never been addressed when a organization or supergroup are a part of the UN. The possible exception being the ThunderAgents. The result being the plot line is dropped or the comic book is canceled. It just doesn't feel right. This is seen even here with people agreeing a multi-national force a great idea but having problems with it being part of the UN.

I have no problem with UNTIL or the UN. I just feel that if it is going to be "official" the background and reasoning needs to be better than what it currently is.

My final thought is, if you want a UN UNTIL and you can make it work, great. If you do not, do the research and make up something you like better. It's a game. No one's version is right or wrong. It is supposed to be fun.