nharwell

Re: How to model Jade (from Whately)

If I'm thinking of the right character, you'd probably model her using a combination of Animate Object (under Telekinesis, in the Advanced Player's Guide) and something like the Telekinetic Sidekick example of Duplication in the the Character Creation book. Basically she creates a telekinetic duplicate that is either invisible & human-shaped (but can wear clothes, etc) or "inhabits" some physical object, animating it (her choice when creating the duplicate).

Re: Wild Card's Hero

I'd suggest that you ignore the GURPS stats and go back to the source material - focus on adapting the characters conceptually rather than converting the GURPS writeups...

Re: Would you play…

I've played in games similar to this, some more successful than others. The most successful was a one-shot where the game began with the pcs waking up with severe but temporary memory loss. In the course of the game we had to figure out who & what we were, and what was going on. It was great fun but I certainly wouldn't have wanted to play a long-term game.

The least-successful is closer to what the OP is suggesting. We designed normal humans and the GM gave us powers during the first few sessions. We had several of the problems mentioned in this thread. Despite having an excellent GM and players, it just didn't work well. For ex., I designed a character with a detailed background and personality that would encourage (I hoped) the GM to give me particular types of powers. Instead, I gained magic. The character knew absolutely nothing about magic so I was forced to make a choice - play the character effectively but "not in character", or stay "in character" and not be particularly useful. I chose the latter, shocking the GM. Other players likewise had issues with some of the abilities they gained.

I think a game like this can be interesting, allowing players to explore different themes and ideas than they might normally. But that works best in a ione-shot or short-term game. For a longer game, It can be very difficult to feel attached to a character that you don't like or aren't comfortable with - esp. in a point-system like Hero, where much of the appeal is in character design.

Re: Can I use independent here?

I actually had someone in a game once that wanted to play two different PCs' date=' only one at a time though. They were twins. Identical powers, but one had the limitation "Doesn't work at night" on all points spent, the other had "Only works at night" on all points spent. They were very hurt that I wouldn't allow it.[/quote']

 

I'd allow it -- but each character could only be built on 1/2 the points (maybe 2/3, if I were feeling generous) of the the other pcs

Re: Mind swapping

Ah' date=' but [u']that[/u] would, actually, be Duplication via another method, and hence not allowable (as I understand things).

Simply a matter of opinion. It would be very difficult to build with Duplication ( duplication +desolid always on + invisible + mind control + who knows what else). I'd argue that Transform is by far the simplest method (while still being rather expensive) and thus the best...

Re: Mind swapping

Now, the "target turns into me" bit---for that, I'd say a second, Triggered Mental Transform. Using Side Effect seems a little cheesy to me. Him-to-you is something you want, after all, not an unfortunate "also happens", so Side Effects doesn't fit, IMO. In short, it doesn't seem to me to limit the power or usefulness of the Power, so I'd say it's not a legitimate S.E. YMMV.

".

I think Side Effect is very appropriate as the "second transform" is VERY limiting. After all, I could just build the power exactly the same without the Side Effect, with the effect of simply duplicating my mind (pushing a copy of my mind into another character). That is far more powerful than a mind swap.

Re: Applying shapeshift in game

Regarding the snake and the pipe... From 5th edition revised page 216

"Shape Shift (touch group) only allows a character to alter his size or mass by about +/-10%. To make greater changes in size or mass, the character should buy growth, shrinking or density increase linked to shape shift."

But that really doesn't apply here. The character could simply become a very long or large snake without changing his size or mass (a large python or boa, for example).

Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift

If your character can capture one of the aliens, simply test to see which "senses" their shapeshift doesn't fool, and then build a device using that sense. Given the cost of shapeshift in 5E, it's highly unlikely that their shapeshifting powers work against ALL senses...

Actually, I've used a very similar construction several times when making NPCs and characters that are "invulnerable." I buy "invisible to sight" as well, though -- I've always assumed that the base Desolidification power also has a visible component...

For example, a player chooses 12 INT for their character...because that's what the player behind the character rationalizes for the character's IQ level. I'm not saying abandon logic within the system that you're given to play within but there's more to Hero than just the numbers on your sheet. Be a HERO and not an ACCOUNTANT.

Ok, I'm a "HERO." I buy a 12 INT for my character because it fits my concept. In a game enforcing the idea that "normal" human stat range is to 20, I'm quite a bit smarter than average.

Player #2 is an "ACCOUNTANT." He buys an 8 INT for his character. In that context, his character is supposedly much less intelligent than mine -- an 80 IQ vs 120, using your rationale.

What's the effect in game? NONE. Both of our characters are equally intelligent. The game mechanics should reflect the character concept. If you ignore the mechanics to play the concept, why use a heavy point-based system at all?

At the very least, reversing your logic, I should be able to assign whatever appearance I want to my character. After all COM has not real game affect. Or make him immortal -- does Immunity to aging ever matter in a standard supers game?

While I agree that an obssession with points takes the focus away from having fun with the game, I so often see people post on these boards how a player shouldn't get anything for free -- he gets only what he pays for. Shouldn't the reverse be true as well? Shouldn't whatever you pay for have some game effect?

Re: It Figures- Raping the system

Originally posted by DrSavant

First of all, I am glad that you noticed this problem.

BUT, it is not so much a flaw in the system as it a flaw

in the players/GM. MUNCHKINISIM.

 

If you can learn to recognize this in your players and

yourself, then hopefully it can be overcome.

Some signs of MUNCHKINISM:

STR/CON ending in an odd number for +1 to stun

EGO 11 for +1 ECV, for a non mentalist

INT ending in 3/8 for +1 Perception roll

 

The main "cure" for MUNCHKINISM is;

Maturity and Creativity.

 

Maturity- For not trying to get "over on the system"

***For realizing that heroes are MUCH MORE

then numbers (This is IMPORTANT)

Creativity- For focusing on what characters are really

about !!

I tried to restrain myself, but I feel obligated to reply to this condescending post. If you truly feel this way, then why run or play with a point-based system like Hero at all? Simply let players chooses their abilties and powers. After all, if they are "real roleplayers", they'll make balanced characters!

A fundamental assumption of the Hero System is that points are generally equal -- points in one ability should be roughly as useful (in game, not necessarily in combat) as the same points in another. Players aren't "munchkins" for making effective characters by using the rules as they are written...

Originally posted by archer

Read John Kim: http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/herosystem/essays/breakpoints.html

Thanks for the link. Although I dropped COM long ago, I never considered getting rid of INT. John's solution actually fixes most of my complaints about the lack of granularity in Hero System stats....

Originally posted by JmOz

Then again I think it is broken for a number of different reasons, Personaly I think it is a waste of paper, and the power as a whole should be "absorbed" into Summon (Summon 100% loyal, a new Lim based on how similar the characters are, with 100% being a -1), then again I think that Regen should be returned and that the Instant Change should be a form of Shapeshift not Transform

I think writing up the "alternate" powers makes an interesting exercise. Let me try Instant Change. Assuming you want to be equivalent to the current version (Transform) where your clothing actually changes, you'd have to do something like:

Shapeshift: base sense group (10), the other 6 sense groups (+18), costs END only to Change Shape (+1/4), Limited-clothing only (-1) = 18 points (real cost). Hmm...even if you say that limitation is -2, the real cost would be 12 points. This version of the power would be slightly more expensive...

Edited due to incorrect interpretation of Shapeshift cost vs. different sense groups

Perhaps the real problem is that skills are disproportionately expensive for the superhero genre? In my experience, skills are not nearly as valuable in a superhero game as they are in "lower-level" games (agent-level, fantasy, sci-fi, etc.). I'm sure there are exceptions -- and that many of you will have counter-examples -- but in a genre where you can buy some flight (at 5") for 10 points, would you really think that those points in climbing are equally valuable ? (for 15 or so skill check -- maybe more depending on buying groups skill levels, etc.)

I've always found this to be a problem in Champions (note: NOT Hero) -- skill-based characters are at a disadvantage. And it's not simply a matter of bad GM'ing. Once again, compare cost and effectiveness -- I could throw alot of points into PRE-based skills or simply buy Telepathy and Mind-Control (with limitations if necessary to simulate super-skills).

Concept, you may say -- I shouldn't do that because of character concept. Ok, that's fine. But that doesn't address the fundamental disadvantage my skill-based character is at vs. the other PCs that put those points into powers (maybe including Telepathy and Mind Control...).

Tom's list is incredible! Please consider many of the effects he lists. It includes many of the powers that, in the past, I've found nearly impossible to do well in Hero.

Also, I'd like to see characters or templates using some of the "controversial" powers and constructs in 5E -- damage shield, shapeshifting, etc. Build some characters to show us that the current powers/costs can work....