MadCow

Re: ??

You guys know that there isnt any proof that the minotaur isnt a good guy here, rescuing the unconscious woman from some cruel imprisonment...

 

Unless the standard in your campaign world is "Ugly is always Evil."

Well... maybe you're right. Or perhaps the woman is evil, or is the Naughty Sauceress. Or perhaps both of them are evil.

That's why a fireball is the best solution to everything.

Re: Help me stat up a very complicated weapon

Considering one of the major supers in my world is Screech the Cat' date=' a large sentient cat from India (no, he doesn't speak, but he does telepath, albeit not really always in a way coherent to humans, he is, after all, actually and truly a cat, though many in the world believe otherwise), these are good ideas. [/quote']

So his power is to persuade cats to be used as throwing weapons (like the beaver-chucks in Kung Pow )?

Ok, this is a tough one...

....

it's really, really complicated...

...

get ready for it...

...

inspired by a thread from err... another forum, I'd like to see stats for... a Throwing Cat!

Now let me start with the SFX:

1) Two methods of throwing: (i) normal throw, and (ii) tail throw

Normal throw effects: Shorter range, clings to target, does cumulative NND damage per phase unless target makes a STR roll to remove said Cat

Tail throw effects: Longer range (since cat is thrown like a sling or bola), does normal damage (2d6 base?) on impact, clings to target and does cumulative NND damage per phase unless target makes a STR roll to remove said Cat

Additional rules:

(i) If target blocks or uses a power meant to "block" or "deflect" the cat with an appendage, no damage is done but the Cat will still cling and do NND damage. The cat cannot be bounced or deflected onto another target.

(ii) If hit locations are used and the Cat hits the head, it automatically does Flash damage to Sight Group. What's a good value.... 4d6?

So err... anyone up to the challenge?

Re: ??

I cast maximized fireball.

oops, wrong game...

Re: About Naked Advantages...

As for the specific problem' date=' no problem: just because a sword or a bow is built as a 3d6 killing attack, it doesn't mean that you have to use it at full power, unless it has been bought with the 'beam' limitation, so just use it at lower power with the naked advantage, or at full power without.[/quote']

This would work with ability-based NAs - e.g. the ability to make multiple strikes with an attack. Using the AF NA on KA as an example, often the warrior will have to sacrifice damage in order to make quick, swift strikes with his sword.

 

However, it wouldn't feel right with bows - why should the enchanted arrow be weakened when fired from a regular bow that shoots the regular, non-enchanted version?

 

Ultimately, I guess it's best to use the different methods to simulate different types of NAs. Ability-based NAs don't need any change, mechanical (bows, crossbows, etc) use an "apply to base power" advantage, and magic/power-based NAs use the one that is more appropriate.

Re: About Naked Advantages...

Ok this is going to sound a bit weird, but how about an "advantaged limitation" applied to the NA?

e.g. in the case of bows, the normal limitation would be "only on arrows (-1/2)" but my suggestion would be to make it "only on arrows of any Active Point cost (0)" -- i.e. the advantage of "any active point cost" evens out the limitation "only on arrows".

Feasable? Or just too weird?

(edit) Or I guess we can use an advantage based on your suggestion - "Applies to Base Power cost (+1/2)" ...

Just something that's been nagging at the back of my mind for a while...

One thing that I can't seem to get along with is the limited Active Points cost which you can apply Naked Advantages on. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes they don't.

e.g. makes sense: "no you cannot use your ten-lightning-strike power with that sword, the weapon is too powerful for you to wield this way" (an AF10 naked advantage on KA)

doesn't make sense: "sorry you can't fire that +5 dragon slaying arrow with your long bow, even though it's basically a normal arrow with dragon-slaying enchantments" (range naked advantage on KA)

I know that it's optional to GM-hand-wave the situation as in the case of bows (or the double-tap powers in Dark Champions), but is there any "rules-legal" way to handle them at all?

Re: Thinking of another SPD/Initiative system

Interesting points. I can now see how the way HERO treats defensive moves as "persistent until next phase" breaks this system, whereas Secret of Zir'an requires characters to pay speed for each attack made against them that they want to actively defend against.

If I am to keep this system I'll probably have to do a change the defensive moves from a persistent state to an instant maneuver, however that could probably break something else. I guess I'll KIV this until I get a chance to experiment it with a group of players and see how it works out....

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

Re fireball spells' date=' there's this to consider: if all that's happening is that the caster is invoking a billowing ball of incandescent gas, then it's likely that any damage is going to be inflicted by flash burns rather than by extended exposure to heat or shock. In that case, ordinary clothing will be just as effective as plate armour at preventing harm, and the spell should probably have the [i']No Knockback[/i] limitation. The amount of damage inflicted would be proportional to the amount of exposed skin shown by the victim, so you might build it something like a 2d6 RKA NND Explosion, Does BODY, only up to 1 BODY per exposed HitLoc.

Just a point of note, the D&D description of a fireball states that "it can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver and bronze."

I'm not sure how this could affect armour and/or clothing, but either way even by your method I'd consider increasing the max amount of BODY per exposed HitLoc, and perhaps add another effect to attack the characters' exposed equipment.

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

Hmm... how about, for simplicity sake, the damage from hot armour evens it out then?

i.e. Fireball burns unarmoured guy for A damage. Also burns armoured guy for B damage (B < A). A moment later armour burns for C damage. Assume A = B + C (approx).

So either way, the same amount of damage is applied and it makes everybody's life easier to just treat the fireball as NND. Perhaps with Limitation: Does only 50% damage if targets make DEX roll (-1/2) ?

Re: Thinking of another SPD/Initiative system

Systems that leave all extra phases to the end have the tendency, IMO, to enhance metagame action decisions. If I have a 2 SPD, and I blow one to get the first action, I'll allocate all my levels to DCV and (martial) dodge. Good luck hitting me between now and the end of the round.

 

Of course, the Baddie can then decide, since he will have an extra phase anyway, to shift all levels to OCV, use attacks with limitations like Concentration, shift multipower points out of defenses to attacks, etc. since he knows the oppoents can't retaliate this round. He uses his first two phases for such attacks (including AE and Explosive, so that cover/concealment doesn't help much, then uses his third phase to reallocate his multipower to Defense powers, Dodge and reallocate his levels to DCV. Next turn, he can play a waiting game.

 

This is far more effective with UberBaddie, who has a SPD 5 compared to the heroes' SPDs of 2 and 3.

 

This can quickly degenerate into a waiting game, with each side waiting for the other to make the first move. UberBaddie can afford to wait - if attacked, he Aborts to go all-out on the defensive (Dodge, MP allocation, levels to DCV, etc.) and uses his extra SPD to attack at the end.

Wouldn't this be the same issue with the regular system?

e.g. Uber Baddie with SPD 5 will have phases in segments 3, 5, 8, 10, 12.

Normal fast hero would have phases in segments 4, 8, 12.

Ignoring the first segment 12 and recovery for simplicity, Uber Baddie shifts all levels to DCV in segment 3.

Segment 4, heroes have plenty of fun trying to hit uber baddie.

Segment 5, uber baddie shifts to max OCV and unloads.

Segment 8, uber baddie usually goes first due to high DEX (except for the rare occasion that he bought a lot of SPD), and shifts all levels back to DCV. Then heroes have fun trying to beat uber baddie again.

Segments 10 and 12, rinse and repeat.

With a mix of SPD 2 and SPD 3 heroes, Uber Baddie can still do Aborts when the SPD 2 guys attack him in Segment 6. It just slows him down a bit more, but he still has an upper hand in it.

(edit) One more thing, I don't think the character can perform any more shifts to DCV after making an attack (which ends his normal round), so he'll have to wait for the bonus round in order to do so. This means if he shifted to full offense mode, surviving characters can still whomp on him while he's a sitting duck. He can probably spend a SPD to do an Abort though, but the smart players will hit him with area effects then since that's usually the best way to deal with fast characters or speedsters in most types of games.

The issue of the time chart is a second one to consider. Finally' date=' I'd want to see it in play to assess how it changes the END/REC balance. If the system results in les attacks being made per REC, combat will lengthen and it will become harder to run out of END. With the likeliness of increased Aborts, I think you will see slower END loss.[/quote']

 

Hmm... maybe. I guess this one will depend a lot on the genre also... Fantasy HERO or Ninja HERO PCs will probably notice this effect more, while Dark Champions and Star HERO PCs will rarely notice the difference since they'll probably be using ranged weapons or firearms most of the time.

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

Just curious if anyone's considered just using fireball-like spells as NND that do BODY.

Being suddenly engulfed in a ball of flame is going to hurt equally whether you're in a full plate of mail or in your birthday suit.

Re: Thinking of another SPD/Initiative system

How does this system handle Adjsutment Power Fade Rates and how does it handle multiple phase attacks (like Flashes which last X-Number of Phases)?

Ah, these are some of the kinks (holes) in the rules mentioned earlier. That's why I was asking for opinions first, whether the system sounds nice and valid enough to warrant exploring and looking for fixes for these cases, or whether it's a waste of time.

Personally, I'd change Flash duration to last X-number of rounds, perhaps giving the player an option to spend 1 SPD per Round to "shake off" the effects faster?

Also' date=' what measure of time unit does the Round default to?[/quote']

(One round + bonus round) = 6 seconds. So two rounds = 12 seconds which is still in line with HERO's turn duration for Recovery purposes.

Re: Thinking of another SPD/Initiative system

Just tried cooking up a simple example. We have a party of 2 heroes suddenly stumble upon a group of 3 bad guys. Both sides were expecting trouble, so no surprise round. The relevant stats:

HERO1: DEX 13, SPD 2

HERO2: DEX 20, SPD 3

BAD1: DEX 12, SPD 2

BAD2: DEX 15, SPD 2

BAD3: DEX 11, SPD 2

The order of initiative is:

HERO2, BAD2, HERO1, BAD1, BAD3

Not wanting to be hit out in the open, HERO1 spends 1 SPD to gain +1d6 DEX (he rolls a 4). HERO1 now has 1 SPD left, and the order of initiative is now:

HERO2, HERO1, BAD2, BAD1, BAD3

First Normal Round:

HERO2 wants to end his move behind some cover, so he spends 1 SPD to move closer towards the nearest cover that he can find. Then he spends 1 SPD to make an autofire attack with his Badass Freakin' Chain Gauss Cannon at all three baddies. He hits and kills BAD1 and BAD2, but misses BAD3.

HERO1 then takes his turn. Since he already spent 1 SPD for initiative, he has only 1 SPD left which he uses to move behind some cover, and makes it in one piece.

BAD2 is supposed to go next, but he's down. And so is BAD1.

BAD3 spends 1 SPD to fire his Crazy Super Long Laser Gun at HERO2 who's still out in the open, but HERO2's armour saves the day. Since making an attack ends a character's Phase (IIRC - don't have the rulebook with me now), he ends his turn with 1 SPD remaining.

First Bonus Round

HERO2 and BAD3 still have remaining SPD and HERO2 moves first based on the original initiative order above.

HERO2 decides to spend his remaining SPD to continue moving towards cover, and makes it.

BAD3 is now left with 1 SPD and nothing to shoot at since both targets are now behind cover. Instead of smartly finding cover himself, he carries over 1 SPD so the next round of combat, he'll have 3 SPD instead of 2.

First Recovery

All three characters get to recover END and other stuff.

Second Normal Round

Initiative order is back to HERO2, HERO1, BAD3 with BAD3 having an extra point of SPD. He could get smart and try to spend 2 SPD to gain +2d6 DEX and run for it while the two heroes are still hiding, or he can stand and fight and probably get mowed down by HERO2's BFCGC. However, he'll need to be really lucky to be able to run before HERO2 gets the jump on him though (needs to roll 10 or more on those 2d6 to beat HERO2's DEX 20)....

(edits: changed lots of typos)

(edit: additional notes)

One interesting point of interest is that characters with 3 SPD can sneak out of cover, take shots, and then sneak back into cover. However, the two-moves-per-round rule force him to stay out for a while and draw some flak first, before finally being able to get back into cover in the bonus round.

Another thing is that this system allows characters who are normally slower to try and interrupt other characters' actions, but by rushing their turn they end up with less things that they can perform. On the other hand, a character who carries over SPD can be equated to coldly calculating his move and strike when the opportunity arises.

Re: Thinking of another SPD/Initiative system

If I'm reading this strait ... every character goes on every segment as long as they have SPD left to spend and wish to spend it.

Sorry forgot to mention...

0) Ditch the 1 Turn = 12 Phase and run combat as 6 sec = 1 Phase. There are no Turns.

(This means reverting to the old RPG tradition of combat rounds.)

I just got Secret of Zir'an and read through the rules a bit, and I'm thinking of how well that game's speed/initiative would work well in HERO.

Here's an overview of the basic structure:

---

0) Ditch the 1 Turn = 12 Phase and run combat as 6 sec = 1 Phase. There are no Turns. *edited*

1) Initiative is based on DEX (equal DEX characters contest with a 1d6 roll as usual)

2) A character can bid SPD to gain initiative over higher DEX characters. Each point of SPD spent grants +1d6 DEX for the purpose of initiative only.

3) During a character's Phase he can spend a point of SPD for a half-phase action (e.g. move, attack, etc). However, he can only perform two half-phase actions (or one full-phase action) per phase regardless of his SPD.

4) Other characters spend 1 SPD to perform Abort moves, e.g. Block, Dodge, etc.

5) Once all characters have acted, a Bonus Phase then occurs for characters who haven't spent all their SPD yet. The Bonus Phase works just like a regular Phase (i.e. you can still only make two half-phase or one full-phase actions in it).

6) After the Bonus Phase, any character with remaining SPD can carry over up to 1 SPD to the next round. Additional points are lost. This is mainly to prevent characters from stockpiling SPD by doing nothing for several rounds.

7) Characters gain their Recovery every odd Phase (Bonus Phases not counted) - i.e. 1, 3, 5, etc.

---

This will probably only work for non-Champions genre where SPD don't usually go up to very high levels, and there will probably be a few holes in the rules that hasn't been covered (I expect a few from #4).

So what do you think? A viable alternative that's worth exploring, or a waste of time?

Re: Thinking about stats below 10

PS - I'm also considering the 2d10 idea - though that makes crit success/failure a 1% chance instead of 1/216. (PPS - which may not be good' date=' IMHO)[/quote']

 

Another idea that I once posted on the RPGnet forums:

 

A critical occurs on tripets (i.e. all three d6 show the same value). Whether that critical is a success or failure depends on whether the roll succeeded or failed.

 

This brings the chance of a critical to 1/36 - and the better your are at doing something, the better your chances of getting a critical success. Likewise, the worse you are, the higher your chances are of failing exceptionally.

Re: New Power: Invulnerability

Damage Reduction provides defenses against both Stun and BODY' date=' and even against NND attacks. Since this new Power provides defenses only against BODY damage, we think the costs are in line with its utility. Many bricks and high-DEF characters never take BODY at all, since in a typical campaign with 12DC caps a character with 25+ defenses won't take BODY even from a maxed out 12d6 or 4d6K roll. (Stun, of course, is another thing entirely.) Even at 30 points per, it's far too expensive to be practical in a non-supers game.[/quote']

 

I don't have my rulebook with me, but IIRC Damage Reduction only applies to either Stun or BODY, and you'd have to pay extra to get both in one package.

What would you think about making the roll for stats below 10 to be 2+STAT instead of the usual 9 + STAT/5?

STAT 9 will need a roll of 11-. STAT 5 will be 7-. etc.

My reasoning is that (by the rules) even a very dumb INT 3 guy still has a fairly high 10- roll which doesn't make sense at all. Of course I personally wouldn't allow such characters in the game if it was obvious that they were munchkinning for more points, but still imposing some penalty to actually discourage players from doing so would be nicer IMHO.

Re: Another firearm rules thread

...OK a big hit might KO you...but I don't see that a hit that does no actual physical damage should do so much stun.

Hmm... come to think of it, in this way HERO can simulate action movies quite well. We often see scenes where the protagonist gets hit in the chest, goes down, antagonists think that he's dead and approaches. A short while later our said protagonist wakes up and mows the bad guys who have turned their backs on him.

Then as all directors or stories dictate, he must rip open his suit and pull out the slug from his bulletproof vest while making a sigh of relief.

Re: Pistol Damage Class By Caliber

On a related note, have any of you ever checked out the Guns! Guns! Guns! (or 3G3) book by BTRC? It is supposed to be a generic gun creation book for various game systems including HERO, and it uses mathemathical calculations that include stuff like kinetic energy to generate the stats.

Those who have seen it - is it useful? (as opposed to "realistic")... frankly the discussion of kinetic energy and energy transfer is partially Greek to me...

Re: Another firearm rules thread

Whoops, I misread it but it is still sort of two rolls - one CON roll each time you take Body, and the other at post-12.

Re: Another firearm rules thread

The bleeding rules seem a bit over-complicated for my tastes, involving two additional rolls each time a character takes Body damage. I was hoping for something that doesn't get in the way of the action, e.g. only during the recovery phase.

Oh well, different strokes....

Re: Another firearm rules thread

have you seen the bleeding rules Fire G0lem wrote?

No, any links?

Re: Massive Gun Manufacturer List

The guys at http://millenniumsend.net/ have a comprehensive listing of stuff (in downloadable PDF) from firearms to vehicles and more which could also be useful for research.