Nucleon

Re: Why Kill At All?

“He chose to save himself.â€

Coming back to this quite surprising snapshot of comic litterature; I think Morningstar, by his attitude, have no confidence in what lays Beyond. Nucleon's guess is that Morningstar believe his actual life to be the sole usage of his cosmic essence.

That must be extremely depressing for a mortal one. Each day brings you closer to... well... nothingness.

Nucleon, for one, believes otherwise. And He is not particularly religious.

The greatest loser in this story?

The Bomber.

May redemption rain down over him.

Re: Why Kill At All?

Great story' date=' Vanguard00. Repped. [/quote']

 

Aye.

 

These were no dime-a-dozen deaths. Death must stay the very troubling thing it is, mortals.

 

(Now what is that Rep thingie, Nucleon wonders? Clearly, he hasn't been here for a while...)

Re: Design a ME Team

Codename for Prince Ayib: Al Salil:The drawn sword.

Then Ayib Al Salil it will be. Is it Nucleon or does that have a nice ring to it?

And thanks.

Re: Design a ME Team

What' date=' no love for the bunny? [/quote']

 

 

Aaawww, Don't break Nucleon's ember heart yet... He does have some love for the bunny but, alas, it is Cosmic in nature...

 

As for Allah's Fist and the Pharoah's Daughter, they are a bit extremist for what He had in mind, but fear not! Nucleon shall plagiate them shamelessly as vilains.

 

And thanks.

Re: Design a ME Team

In regards to your comments, here is how Nucleon's project is shaping up:

1. As noted, they are heroes right? Admittedly they might not see eye-to-eye with more Western heroes but in general they believe in the general good, protecting the innocent, and being a shield against invaders, correct?

Exactly.

2. A private team or one with at least some support/control from countries in the ME? Given how restrictive some ME countries are, a private one might be more difficult but doable.

 

3. Support by countries also becomes tricky though given the huge amount of intercountry conflict (Iraq/Iran/Kuwait/Saudi Arabia, or the Syrian troops in Lebanon). It gives the team an interesting group dynamic though. You might want to rule that the group is each country contributed one or two supers (and possibly their less powerful ones) to keep a certain amount of power at home.

Well, they're shapen up to be notably powerful (from 425 to 600 pts), enough to be independant from their own governments; some of them might even be seen as too heretic by the most orthodox elements of the region. They are to sing a song of their own, not sing along with the Establishment's.

4. A suggestion based on my limited knowledge of Middle Eastern politics and geography: consider setting the team in Jordan or the UAE which tend to be a little more moderate. It might also come up that the team has a strict hands-off policy when it comes to Isreal to 1) avoid US intervention and 2) not get too involved in RL politics that might offend the players. Alot of this stuff is more background that might never come up... but it could.

Up to here, they will be a team on short-notice assembly, a bit like Marvel's Defenders; They will not be as good as a team as they are individually -but that might change.

5. Don't be too worried about including women. Some ME countries are more liberal than others. It could create some tension with more devout members though, especially if the women doesn't "cover up" as is proper.

No problems here.

6. Consider some RL history. Maybe a veteran flier downed a F-15 that tried to bomb Lybia (from the 1980's strike). Again, not to offend players but it might be interesting to see the other side's POV.

Good idea. Here is what Nucleon has thought so far; you might recognize an idea or two from yours:

Prince Ayib (his real name -didn't find any suitable codename yet) is an All-Arabic prince and a possible heir to the Barhadim (an imaginary nation in Nucleon's campaign) throne. He is a modern, progressive Muslim who want his people to do better by themselves instead of being coerced to. A skilled swordman, a master thief and a great communicator, Ayib will be the cornerstone of this team.

His first follower is his personal Astrologer and man of science (didn't find a suitable name here neither, maybe a variation on "Vizier"), a darker fellow with divinatory and illusionary powers, and a good alchemist to boot. Together they will take over the palace of a defeated fanatical muslim cult on a small Red Sea island, palace that will become the group's informal base of operations.

Shortly after that, and using "Vizier"'s foresight, they will deliver a woman sentenced to death because of her "dealing with the demons", making them parias in this particular country. The said woman (named "Dervish" for now) is in fact a powerful ghost summoner and a mystic mentalist. Thus equipped, the trio can now take on the Scourge of Iran, an enigmatic being of rock and sand that's wreacking havoc there. With "Dervish's" telepathic powers, they learned that the said being, Erdamon, is a banished noble from a subterannean civilisation, attacked by that contry's conventional forces as a monster. He becomes the group's shifting brick.

Having a crush on Ayib, they could not prevent Jaida from joining the group; A spunky african speedster mutant with a following, oversized panther, Jaida maybe the least noble member of this group, but she is indeed seen as a godly tool in her native Somalia.

Finally, one day the team just couldn't hold their own in a battle against powerful ancient automatons near Tunisia; but the young archeologist that alerted them founded the legendary Herald staff, a tool of the first dynasty of Pharoahs, and a huge powersource from an alien nature; As the need arise, the Archeologist calls in the power of the staff, becoming Anthot, the Herald, and the energy-manipulating powerhouse the group needed.

Ennemies will include many characters that I have seen in this very thread. Mamluk, gigantic Scimetar-wielding warrior, will be one of them.

The team's apparence should inspire awe; Variably dark of skin, clad in rich golds and stunning whites, with an air of natural nobility about them, the Pillars of Faith -their actual name- will be forces to contend with.

Re: Design a ME Team

I developed such a group for a past campaign of mind. They were my version of a hero group mentioned in the first edition of Champions Universe (for 4E) called The Right Hand' date=' who protect the Middle East and North Africa; they are all supposed to be devout Muslims. I used names and traditions from the region for them. Unfortunately I don't have their character sheets in a format that I can post here, but I can give you a brief summary of their concepts, and could include more details subsequently if you'd be interested.[/quote']

 

What a great list of heroes. So good, in fact, that it made Nucleon changes some of the characters He was designing so far. Your list was exactly what He wished for. He especially like the names you gave them, and the apparent culture from their background.

 

Thanks.

Re: Design a ME Team

Essentially' date=' if I read correctly, you want an arab team that represents the Muslim World. [/quote']

 

Mmmh, not particularly. Pre-Muslim culture is also very rich, as is the North African one. Nucleon expect some members of the said team to be Muslims... but He has no intention of turning this into a religious matter.

 

First off, their religious status would directly impact their status in each country. I would also expect such a team to be mostly, if not all, male.

 

Women in Arabic culture and lore are often portayed as having divinatory talents, among others traits. I don't think there would be a problem regarding a woman in the group; In the most extreme cases, she may not lead or represent the group, however.

 

 

"classic arabian warrior" (flying carpet, scimitar, etc...such as Marvel's Arabian Knight"

 

Mmmh, a bit corny... But there is a great tradition of Arabic swashbuckling rogues and charmers, favored by fate. Maybe a less caricatural version of AK -whitout the carpet.

 

"owner of a magic lamp" or genie master; or a genie

 

The Original Johnny Thunder! What about Walid Thunder?

 

a wizard (very common in arabian literature)

 

Yes, verily, at a time where Eastern science ruled; I would like an Astrologer and Illusionnist master of knowledge -or maybe a mystic warder and conjuror.

 

desert/sand/eartch control (think of some of the SFX from the Mummy movies)

 

Great Idea.

 

skilled thief/sailor/martial artist -- could even own a magic boat

 

Yes, something like that... a modern-day Sindbad.

 

Nucleon wonders what an Arabic-inspired powered armor would look like...

Re: Design a ME Team

If you don't mind borrowing from a published source, you might find these characters useful (or at least inspirational)

 

http://www.studiogpub.com/ak/index.html

Thanks for the link. Nucleon thought He was the first to visualize the ME, birthplace of humankind, as a superheroic environment, but He has been foiled! Just a minor setback.

The heroes despicted on this link have both a foot in the past and another one in the future, halfway between tradition and modernity. They're great and Nucleon hopes for their success in the Arabic market. Noble comicdom ideals are universal.

Nucleon bids you hello mortals! He needs Help! Help Him with your tremendous imagination powers and create a Middle Eastern combat team, would-be heroes but as of now a tense third party my players are going to encounter as part of their current global adventure.

They should be a team of 5-7 NPCs, of respectable power and should (as all heroes that are not American...) have some cultural traits that reflects their environment, but Nucleon would like these elements not to be too caricatural. He would also like culturally meaningful names, if you can. The area they would guard goes from Egypt to Iran, comprising the Arabic peninsula as well as North Eastern Africa.

Nucleon don't ask for complete Character sheets; A simple concept description for each, with the occasional temperamental or origin quirks should suffice. A small paragraph should do it, or even a one-liner if your communicating skills are that efficient.

He would also like a brief description of this team' structure, bases, ressources and vehicule if they have such perks. Are they religious integrists? Do they seek to liberate their people from modern-day tyrants? Are they progressists or do they favor old ways and traditions?

Thanks in advance, Mortals!

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

Also' date=' I second the sheer ineptitude of Midnighter's opposition. Who of note has he actually defeated? Regis, butt kicked. Seth, butt kicked. Seth, butt kicked again. He only ever beats up on rent-a-goons and no-name supers...[/quote']

 

Well, there was that rough Marvel parody (complete with a cariratural Stan Lee...) where the midnighter takes on all the X-mutants by himself...

 

One thing you need to keep in mind while reading The Authority is the second degree. Their heroes themselves are pretty much bad parodies of the genre, pushed to extremes. Often, even a fan of the book would read it in the hope that some of these icons will get "a good one this time".

 

Everybody was glad when Kev shot the snot out of them some times ago.

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

that's midnighters problem he suffers from superman syndrome. just like superman in the justice league carton he has to be beaten up by easily the villain to show just how powerful that villain is.

That would be more Appolo. The Midnighter is more seen like the surviving one, in many Authority arcs.

Re: Why Kill At All?

Why are you speaking in the third person?

Under his secret guise, Nucleon frequents political, naval, history and social boards, where He is serious enough for two. When he comes here, it is with the very same spirit He has when He goes to His weekly gaming session. Nucleon finds comfort that way, leaving "real world" pretenses behind on what is basically a leisure board. You should relax and do the same, mortal. Works wonders.

I like fiction where heroes are confronted with hard choices in bad situations and are forced to do their best and soldier on. This is why I stopped reading comics years ago. The world isn't black and white and perfect people are boring.

May Nucleon suggest you Kingdom Come? Coming from such a four-colour company as DC, this critically acclaimed serie is all about these choices you're writing about -just tell your comic dealer Nucleon sent you.

Re: Why Kill At All?

When it comes right down to it' date=' philosophy is bunk. There are times when the only choice is kill or be killed. Either you choose to live or die, choose to keep your family alive or not, or choose to keep innocents alive or not. The choice, is of course, up to the individual. I've made mine. Sophistry won't affect it.[/quote']

 

And what if the person one kills acted by the same "ideals"?

 

And what if some of one's powerful peers decide that because one killed, one must also be killed? What of the Talion, is it an Ourobouros by itself?

 

***

 

Nucleon still thinks that killing (not necessarly death) reflects either a lack of self-control, morale, imagination or more commonly, means to do otherwise.

 

-In comic world, of course-

 

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

I thought we might try a variation of the endless "Cap vs. __________" threads. Could your main or favorite Champions character beat the Ultimate Human Fighting Machine; America's living incarnation: Captain America? Post your version of Captain America, and then tell us how you think the fight would go. No limit on points; just build what you think would be a good Hero system approximation of the Red, White & Blue Avenger.

Mmmhh. Very intersesting. Alas, Nucleon is a GM, and have no personal character apart from the ridiculously powerful being that bears His name. However, he's got a menagerie of other, lesser characters we would like to put against the Marvel Icon, namely four members of the Guardians, the iconic All-American supergroup of His universe.

(Nucleon would likely make a version of Cap with less Physical Characteristics and more SLs and PSLs and CSLs, but he shall take yours anyway, because it is well-made and Cosmic Lazyness.)

First Containder; Whipcord, Whips and lines-using feminist martial artist, ±430 pts, in a urban setting; A very mobile fight, as Whipcord takes adventage of the range of her whips and her swinging movement to harass a character clearly superior to her in term of brawn, if not in martial habilities; But by superior polyvalency and cunning, Cap got her cornered, and accepts her honorable surrender. 1-0 for Cap.

Second Fight; Cap vs Great Wolf (± 500 pts), Native shapeshifter and protector of the central plains (where the fight takes place); He is also clearly superior to Cap in both skills and Characteristics, but his animal mind when transformed does not make him too tough an opponent for Cal to decipher; After taking the 3-4 hards blows of the Man-Beast, Cap still resists and place blow his opponent didn't saw coming, and so Great Wolf runs away, impressed. This one goes to Cap per default; 2-0 for Winghead.

Third Fight; Cap now fight Athelus (± 525), All-American sport athlete, Wrestling specialist and giant-sized brick -and a jovial fellow overall, in a suburban parking lot. Athelus is surprised at first of Cap's habilities, taking a few painful blows; He changes tactics however, and start throwing things around like cars and dumpsters. As a result, Cap is unbalanced due to knockback, so using his huge size, Athelus can now grab him, and as so many adversaries caught in Athelus grasp, Cap does not escapes. He still leads 2-1, though.

Fourth and Final match; Cap vs Vanguard at the feet of Lady Liberty, flag-suit himself and possessor of True American Radiance, at ± 700 pts. An all-aroung complete opponent, Vanguard is super-strong, manipulates energy and flies, which makes hime quite a match for ol' Winghead, who still deflects his blasts, however. Understanding the nature of his opponent, Vanguard then floods Cap's sense with bright light (Area effect Flash), which works because Cap expected another beam. Blinded, Cap then falls to Vanguard's Opti-Beam, a signature beam that requires Flash Defense for his target to resist (AVLD). Cap falls from there on. So it is a draw, 2-2.

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

Champions combats assume we are going to be a bit objective and transcend the rage of a little boy insisting "Bang, bang, I got you and you missed, I will not fall down, you fall down, bwaahh!"

 

The essence of the Authority is not to transcend that. None of their opponents had the opportunity to fight them on "fair" terms, without the writers, like rabid fanboys with political axes to grind, throwing punches to make their/the characters viewpoints right and ultimately victorious.

 

If you're talking about the Midnighter, or the Authority in general, without gross authorial favouritism - it's not really the Authority.

True, and quite nicely said BTW. Nucleon abhors gratuitous killing and over-arrogance in comics (or any such relents of the Iron Age), but strangely enough, He happen to like the Authority. A lot. It must be the marginal philosophy, the mega scale of the events, or the sheer shock factor. It never leaves one stoic. The Authority is the anti Comic Code Authority.

That being said, Nucleon does not think that the fight would be so quick, nor necessarly on the side of the Mightnighter. Let Him explain why:

Whatever the Mightnighter carries in augmentations, he does not seem so bend on gadgeteery like Batman is. So, Bat have some purpose-built ranged weapons over Midnighter; Gas, explosive charges, batarangs...

Now put these along with the possibility that Midnighter's computer may not be able to sense threats that are not directly aimed to him, such as a brick wall crumbling down on him, the effect of an explosive batarang that registered on Midnighter's computer as "a miss".

Batman won't need any computer to conclude, fast, that he cannot take on the Midnighter directly. At this point, the fight will become strategic and in this game, Bats is IHO superior to his rougher clone.

Plus, it's comics; Human imagination must triumph over the mechanized logics of machine, don't forget that!..

Re: Why Kill At All?

Because without the threat of harm' date=' what's the point? Heroism and the chance of death are inextricably linked.[/quote']

 

Yes, I do agree.

 

However, accidental death or death due to one's own malicious plans is one thing- the risk that comes with the job's description. Like catching a cold if you work in a hospital.

 

But to willingly seek to bring death as a self-styled superhero... seems to me like taking the easy way... do we really need superheroes for that? All conventional forces are capable of killing, and they even start to sport our ridicule costumes as well. What's left to us? Maybe that's because that's all some supers got... powers that are eventually lethal.

 

Ahhh, just a thought...

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

Of all the charcters you've read and enjoyed' date=' which one is it that you thought was underutilized or underrated? Which character did you feel never got their due? And why? Just curious.[/quote']

 

I've got a few.

 

In Marvel, where they seriously lack in stronf female types, there is Thundra, the chain-wielder and mate of Arkon. I would make an Avenger out of her.

 

Then there is these Buckys; the one we all know and love still isn't in any future Avengers Incarnations despite MC2's Avenger Next and the recent New Avengers. That's lame. But there is also the other one, Ricki Barnes from the "Heroes Reborn" debacle, who had some spunk. Speaking of Buckys, Nomad is also underused; his last incarnation was the tricky assassin in Thunderbolts -can't remember the name right now.

 

Finally, in Marvel, there are the whole Inhumans who are also underused.

 

In DC, I can't get enough of Cap Marvel (Shazam!). Here is a hero that got no chances in the Iron Age, but is now a marvelous concept with the recent Golden-Age fascination. And what a nice, classic costume he's got.

Re: Why Kill At All?

See, thinking about what happens after we die doesn’t come into it for me. I don’t know God exists, or if there’s another god or gods or aliens or some cosmic nerd running things, or even nothing at all. But it doesn’t matter, because I’m here now.

Mmmh, Nucleon ponders: Why would you send somebody to a place/state you have but very few idea about? All that for getting rid of him/her on the here and the now.

It's like putting stuff into a locker without you knowing where it leads.

Then there are those few who do purposefully cause harm and/or kill people, for whatever reason. Maybe it’s a means to an end. Maybe the victims were just in the way. Or maybe the guy just gets off on causing pain and suffering. I’ve had run-ins with a few guys like that. For them the choice is easy, too. They kill because they can. It doesn’t occur to them not to because for them it’s part of their life.

Ah, I think we are closer to the problem. It must be kind of hard for an un-killeable mutant armed with nothing but Evenantium claws not to kill.

In other words, when one's only tool is a hammer, he tends to see all problems he encounter as nails.

Now, with all that in mind, the question is ‘why kill at all?’. Again, knowing that if I could get through life without ever killing someone I would, it comes down to choice. If it’s a choice between taking the life of some asshole who steps on people the way most of us step on ants then I’m going to take him down. Yes, I’ll do it without killing him if possible. But if you show me a guy who has a dozen murders under his belt and can give me no good reason to believe he’ll stop if left to his own devices, I’m going to put him down any way I can. And if he dies because of that…well, I guess that’s something I have to live with since it was my choice to put myself in that position.

Althought giving the guy the same kind of treatment he himself gave to so many does have a pleaseant ring of Talion justice, Nucleon sees it for the vicious circle it is.

Couldn't we transform the guy into some vegetal, passive lifeform?

But it’s easier knowing that he made his choice, too, and his choice had a profound impact on mine. If he wasn’t out there killing people then people probably wouldn’t need someone like me around, and if I can stop him from killing one of those other people who just wants to live their life without any fuss or muss then that’s what I’m going to do.

Cosmic-friendly Nucleon tends to think that killing, or any other act of destruction of life, is solution by amputation; What is gone can't grow back. Each killing of the Cosmic Essence of Life leaves a void behind.

(And we must avoid Void; He is Nucleon's arch-ennemy!)

Yeah, it’s a real blurry line, and I worry about it every damn day, but when it comes down to it I’m pretty sure I’ll sleep easier knowing Freddy Krueger is off the streets, as opposed to nightmares I might have if I let the guy get away knowing I could’ve stopped him and he chops up Ma and Pa and Baby Joe suburban family. And for what it’s worth, I’ll do it as cleanly as possible. What the system does isn't my business. If they jail a guy, give him the death penalty, cut off his hands, neuter him, put him in a coma or a block of ice or whatever, that's up to the system. If the local badges can’t handle it or there’s just plain and simple no one else around to stop him, I’ll step up and he goes down, plain and simple. That’s why I wear the mask. That's my choice.

It's all coming down to the mask, like Green Arrow said in Identity Crisis. For their part, they messed with poeple's mind. The ethical problem stays; only difference, better the evil you know...

So, does that answer your question?

Quite Nicely, thanks.

This thread is a kinda branch of the loonng "How do you feel about Heroes who kill" one, wherein the opinion that "killing is okay to save many future victims" is largely represented.

Well, I think killing, in most cases, is but on option, and I am not being moralistic here, hear me well.

For you puny Humans, Death is the great beyond. Your myriad religions all have failed to prove you what is waiting for you beyond, says Nucleon.

So why would someone would send another one there? What is your assurance that said ennemy is not better off now that he is dead? What if he really got to get his 92 virgins, for instance?

So, you're a hero facing a quite lethal threat; Capture is not the point here: Concussive damage, Entangles, Gas, Mental holds... everything may work. Then...

... Then, if you're conscious and a standard, you may believe in salvation for your fallen foe. You can also believe in reparation, or any such noble ideals. You're a "real" hero.

If you're more expeditive, or radical, what about Dismembrement? Brainwash or mental wipes (like what happenned in DC's Identity Crisis), Cryogenic Detention? Or if one is sick enough, why not torture? A lot more liberating for one's angst, Nucleon would think.

In a comic book setting, all these solutions are as "final" as death anyway. So why kill at all in this genre?

Re: The Essential Bad Iron Age

What amazes me about that age are the head-to-hand proportionnal ratios; Often the character had a head the size of his thumb. Smallish, wide, pointy faces, lost amidst a heap of shoulder pads and muscles.

Heroes/Vilains whitout any concepts; Thinly-related suits of powers, with a generic names and guns, and katanas, and then some more guns.

And the attitude. Oh man, the attitude.

One un-necessary gem from my "please steal me" pile: Black Flag no2, by Dan Fraga, Maximum Press (a creature of Rob Liefeld). Everything's there; aformentionned archetype with arm hair, white eyes, and Mr Fraga's signature, shredded clothing. I mean, shredded a lot, at the very start of a mission.

The team is made out of Raiden, about which I have seen little, Rascal, an agile guy with guns, Geisha (Jee, what a concept, eh?), the mandatory, scantily-clad chick with swords and stuff, and Sniper, the bad-ass, stoned face no-bullshit stoic leader with humongous (and ridiculous) guns. Fraga, however, was full of energy and one could feel that he just loved his (crappy) art, you've got to give him that...

I think your write-up is good (I like the part where he connects with the original Maine armor), but he should not continue calling himself "the Maine". That denomination was given to a particularly loser vilain (who likes "cheaps, ill-fitting suits" in his secret ID), referring to the accidental explosion of a battleship in Cuba's harbour, which caused the USA-Spain war in the late 1800s.

The original Maine was such a smash because of that loser/unreliable aspect; Your hero certainly isn't. My advice would be to try a less loser name, such as "Monitor" (or "Merrimack" for a southen flavor), because most great American ships either have states names, or establishment ones ("Constitution", "Congress", etc).

But hey, this is only my opinion...

Hi, mortals.

Althought Nucleon is omniscient, He needs a little help to classify the various comic ages: So there He turns to you, whose opinion is for me essential, for advice (or more precisily guidelines) to know what exactly are, in terms of era, costumes, philosophy and ideals, a given age of Comics.

What defines the Golden, Silver and Bronze age of comics?

And what about the comics that are printed right now? How do we call the Comic age we're living out?

Many thanks, all of them in advance.

Thanks

Thanks guys, and some more thanks to the Emerged and Mayday. Now this campaign is taking a more precise shape. I won't tell here what I'm going to do (vecause many of my players may lurk), but I do admit that your advices will be put to exercise.

What I can say is this; In the aformentionned vilain campaign I GMed, the players were really stranded between uncertain deeds and hiding. What I did at that point was sending them into an alternate universe.

In that universe, the heroes they knew all turned redemptors, united and took the world over, to transform it into an over-organized, totalitarian society where crime was brutally repressed.

There, the players were seen by the oppressed populace like "the last rebels", becoming, ironically, heroes.

Nucleon bids you hello.

I'm planning a new campaign and I was discussing its tone with several players, and we're considering the players as Villains.

Part of it is we've played numerous campaigns in quite a rich universe, now densely populated by (many of) the former PC heroes, that over the ages has taken its part of vilainy. The Vilain buisness opportunities demands are beginning to expend.

And besides, it's a different game.

I've DM only one such campaign to date, and what I must say, is that the Super-Villains' leader must have some long-term goal, unless the become cheap mercenaries.

Any comments or, better yet, advice?

Re: Re: Who's the baddest mutha in your campaign?

Originally posted by Blue

Actually, the biggest, baddest guy of this campaign has not reared his head yet, but will soon. And if I run him right, the characters should be petrified. He's homegrown.

Huh, and that's it? More, more!