Khaalis

Another quick question as I'm second guessing myself. In a Multipower. The Limitations we added for Charges, Focus, etc. are applied to the cost of each individual slots not the base cost of Multipower correct?

 

Thus if I say create a Coinshot Multipower with a reserve of 40 and add the Flare power as a slot, it would look like this?

 

40 - COINSHOT: Multipower, 40-point reserve

4v - 1) Flare: Aid 2d6 to Coinshot Power

 

where...

 

FLARE: Variable Slot; AID Power [6 CP per 1d6] to Coinshot Power; Total CP Value = 2 CP (rounded from 1.75) per 1d6

* Multipower Limitations: (-2.25)

--- Charges, Iron (-1.5)

--- Focus (-1/2)

--- OIAID (-1/4)

* Power Limitations: Total Value = (-2)
--- Only Aid Self (-1)
--- Side Effect (-1): Consumes Metal Faster (Lowers "Continuing Time Value" on Charge); Minor (-1/4), Triggered by Power (x2), Self Only (0), Predetermined Effect (1/4 Less Limit)
* Total Limitations Applied: (-4.25)

 

Thanks again for the patience and teaching.

Thanks Lucius. This is a very detailed response and good peice of education material.


Ok, so we're back to pretty much where I had originally started with Charges but instead of what I had initially thought (Clips and Fuel) between you and MHD it looks like the suggestion is this  (using Iron for this example).

To represent the metals once ingested into the body.

* CHARGES (Iron):  Value = -1.5 Limitation
--- 8 charges/day (-1/2)
--- Continuing Charge (1 hr)  (+1)
--- Charges Never Recover (-2)

I'm not sure what the cost should be for hourS. The table on 6E1 p370 only goes up to 1 hour. Should the next step should be 5 hours?  Additionally I don't know if the charges need to last longer than 1 hour since we're modifying the concept to one vial of metal ingested = 8 charges (thus 8 hours).

I decided no Fuel becuase it says that it shouldn't be used to power Attack Powers. I also went with Never recoverable as it seems to make the most sense. Once you burn a charge its gone from that clip for good. Once your 8 charges are gone, you can use another vial of metal to regain your 8 charge clip (which would be an IAF I believe?) or would it have to be "Difficult to Recover"?

So the Fluff of the mechanic will be that once you Burn a Charge, it runs until it is depleted, turned off or you're unconscious. But in any of those cases, it counts as the whole charge used. Once you burn a charge, its done. Once your 8 charges are gone. You can't use your power until you ingest another focus.  Make sense?

The actual Vial of Metal would be an IAF?  It is at this point, the physical focus used up to give you charges. Or would it be better handled as a Resource?

* FOCUS (Vial of Iron Shavings suspended in alchemical base): Value = -1/2 Limitation
--- Type: IIF (-1/4) [inobvious - small and hidden]
--- Mobility: Easily Moveable (0)
--- Expendability: Difficut to obtain new focus (-1/4)
--- Durability: Breakable (0)
--- Applicability: (0)  [Technically universal and personal as its useless to anyone But another Iron burner.]


Thoughts?


Also, again thanks for the detailed explenations on power functions. That helps a lot.  Also wanted to thank you for the AID Power suggestion. That works perfecetly with the Charges setup to cover Flaring.

As to the OIAID... The more I think on it, that actually works.Your explenation of "can use" / "cant use" as technically meeting the description of the limitation makes perfect sense.

Also, in the books there are powers that can "sense" the burning/flaring power. If you aren't burning you are invible to those senses, so yes it really is in a way a different state. So more fuel to the argument IMHO.

Thanks again. Great help.

Those powers are in a Multipower. One is a fixed slot,the other a variable slot.

Awesome for that. Now another stupid question. What exactly makes one fixed and the other variable?  Is it that Mental Blast is a flat cost and telekinesis has modifiers? Or does it have something to do with the Active Point pool?

Awesome. Thanks for the responses. I'll start with this and start myself a cheat sheet and add to it as I find new ones.

 

To answwer about sources, I'm using 6E and I think have all of the books (pdfs), but with primar focus on Fantasy Hero (and Fantasy Hero Complete). I'll eventually also be looking at most of the 6E expansions (the APGs, Equipment Guide, Grimoire, Martial Arts, etc.). Thanks for the tip on the Glossary. I found it in 6E1 in the Basic Book which I hadn't dug very deeeply into yet. So much material to go through!!

 

Quick question.  This was an example power I was presented with from another thread about how Linking works, but I am at a loss for the 4v/4f. Are these acronyms or are they tags from a copied icon that didn't translate over?

 

 

 

4f 1) Mental Blast 4d6 (40 Active Points) 8
4v 2) Telekinesis (25 STR) (39 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) 16

 

Thanks.

Hi all. A real quick question this time.  Is there a master list of Hero acronyms anywhere? 

 

I've been looking through the forums and through general web searches but I haven't been able to find anything. As someone new to the system, I tend to get lost when reading a lot of the information about Hero System due to all the acronyms used and its difficult to stop and try to dig through the rules looking for something that might be related. A cheat sheet of acronyms would be useful.

Wow, ok. People posted as I was replying. So some more comments...

 

At its core, Focus means "you need some physical stuff to use your power" and Charges means "you can only use the power a few times per day".
Often they're independent, sometimes they work together. A D&D wizard can use his Fireball spells 3 times per day and needs some bat guano (expendable focus) for it.
To shoot someone, you need a gun as your focus and this has 1-100+ charges.

Awesome. That makes so much more sense now.

 

So regarding Allomancy, you need physical reagents and they only last for a while. Whether that's relevant for the game is another question. I mean, swallowed metal doesn't make your power use obvious and it's really hard to take away. So it's already an "Inobvious Inaccessible Focus", the cheapest kind
you've got in HERO. If being deprived of that (by bad guys or bad availability) isn't a factor, than it's not really limiting.

Ok so this is where it gets tricky and I see where the Crunchy vs Narrative style matters now.  Considering the "Charges" option is volatile when the charges can change (which is true with allomancy as it all depends on how many grams of metal you consume), I can see where it won't work.

My question then comes back to the Focus. Is it Accessible or Inaccessible?  Again, I think this comes down to how you want the "system" to play in the game.  Considering that I feel that allomancers should have the possibility of Losing their Focus (vials lost, damage, pickpocketed, dropped, etc.) I would have to say Accessible.  There is the option that you could "assume" that all allomancers consume their metals every day in a safe location, but thematically that just doesn't work. With the fact that the metals can turn toxic, and the fact that the metals are often not cheap and easy to aquire, I again come back to having to ba an Accessible focus.

However, with that said, you do have a point about simplification. I'm torn as to whether or not the magic should be based on a focus the allomancer may not have access to. On the other hand, this game isn't Actually the Mistborn world, just an adaptation of the Style of magic. So your idea that using Charges instead of a focus is actually really appealing. Especially with the idea that Charges are based on the metal's rarity/cost. In fact the more I think about it, the more I think you've hit the nail on the head with that suggestion and its a LOT less headache than being a focus. It also leaves more room for differentiation of character archetypes. For instance, if we do Alchemy, THAT power framework would deffinately have to use Inobvious, Accessible, Expendable Foci.

 

{Snip} Due to what HERO considers important and how the system adjudicates costs, you might run into something similar when you put allomantic powers in a Multipower framework. So my warning/recommendation is working from what you want to simulate and not strive for game/system efficiency. I think that's more fun in the long run.

Ok, this makes more sense now. Basically, design the powers for the thematic element over trying to min/max them or else the game might break in certain areas?

Quick question on the Maths and terminology I'm not fully clear on.

"- Tarxarian MindWarrior (Multipower, 40 pt reserve) - Cost 40 pts.
  + MentalMissile: Blast 8d6 (40 active points) - Cost 4
Now you need to add the Tarxarian ForceLift. Going by your source, that would be Telekinesis 10 (Concentration, constant: -1/2, increased endurance x 2: -1/2), real points 7 so a Cost in your Multipower of 1."

Multipower Reserve = Number of CP you can use to build the multipower, correct?  How do slots work? Is a slot just the number of "powers" added to the Multipower?  So, in your example, I assume "Mental Missile: Blast" (aka Mental Blast) is 1 Fixed Slot which is why it has to be a base cost of 40 Active Points?

Another question - However, how did you come up with 8d6 damage?  As a 40 Active Point power, wouldn't that count as being only 40CP, thus at 10CP per 1d6 it would be 4d6?

 

Would an END Reserve work for this?
27 Allomancer's Steel Pool:  Endurance Reserve  (100 END, 5 REC) Reserve:  (29 Active Points); REC:  (4 Active Points); Limited Recovery (Character must eat steel while Recovering; -1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Steel to consume; -1/2)
-10 Metal Toxicity:  Metal Pool must be empty Takes 3d6 Damage (Very Common; 6 Hours)

Interesting to see another variation. I'm curious to see what the other experts say, as I'm not familiar enough with the system to know how this really measures up against the Charges Multipower (not to mention it will take me awhile to decipher the terms and the math to see how you did it.


Once again, thanks for all the help.

Thanks again for the continued comments.

 

--- Always On + Inherent?
Not if they don't work when you are unconcious. No for inherent. Why would they be considered always on?
--- Stops working if Knocked-Out/Stunned (unconscious)
That's the basic state of powers in the Hero system. It is simply not adding the inherent advantage.

My logic was that Inherent seemed to fit as Allomancy is a "natural, inherent part of the character's being" and "cannot be Aided, Dispelled, Drained, or the like".  You are (with 1 incredibly rare exception) born a Misting/Mistborn. It is not a trained magical art or form of spellcasting, it is a biological form of "magic". I was also under the impression that Inherent required Always On but I now noticed the "if applicable" statement. So how would you list it considering the fact that allomancy should be an innate ability that can't be tampered with (Aided, Dispelled, Drained, or the like)?  My gut still says that it is inherent but not Always On, since they can't actively burn metals/use powers when unconscious.

 

--- Charges (Clips [1 per Focus]; Fuel Charges) - Metal Once Ingested?
If you can find and ingest more to get more charges in a day, expendable focus might be what you are looking for.
--- Focus (Inobvious, Accessible, Breakable, Universal) - the Metals for ingestion? Are they accessible?
If you ingest them when you cast the spell, and thus can be taken away to prevent you from casting, this would be the case. Don't forget expendable.
--- Trigger (1 defined set of conditions [only 1 applies at a time], No Time Action, Trigger Expires) - Burning/Flaring?
You probably don't need a trigger if consuming the metal is part of the casting, as it is a focus.

Ok, I think I see that this needs to be a Focus, but here is a caveat just to make sure its still what you think it shoudl be.

An allomancer can:
a) Consume metal and store it for future use (up to 8 hours, afterwhich it must be burnt or become toxic and deal the allamancer damage/illness).
Consume metal just before planning to use their powers if they don't have any consumed already or if they think they need to increase their current amount of metal reserves.

So I believe that in all cases it is basically a 1/Day Focus per Dose of metals consumed. If so then it would be as follows?

FOCUS (metal consumption 1g = 1 dose/charge/use):
* Type: Inobvious, Accessible (IAF) [-1/4]
* Mobility: Easily Moveable [0]
* Expendability: Difficult to obtain new focus [1/4 more limitation]
* Durability: Breakable [0]
* Applicability: Universal [0]

Also, I need to check if I understand how the math works.  So in affect, this Focus is a Limitation with a total modifier of -1/2?   

When Calculating costs is where I'm a bit more confused.

For Active Points, it would be "[base + Adders] x (1 + 1/2)" thus "[base + Adders] x 1.5?
For Real Cost, it would be "[Active] / (1 + 1/2)?  Thus ([base + Adders] x 1.5) / 1.5 ?

However, as to the Trigger, I think it may still apply. Simply consuming the metal does not begin the "burn" process. You have to consciously begin to use your metal reserve. Consuming the metals basically gives yourself a temporary Power Point reserve to use for your known ability. When you want to use your ability, you have to turn on the burning process.

As to Flaring, its a concept that could be dropped or modified if "power level increase" doesn't wotj in Hero. For instance Flaring might double the charges you would normally have from your consumed metals, but still reduces the duration as mentioned above.

 

--- Limited Power (impure metal = 1/2 power)?
That's one way to do it. You could also have a base power with a less limiting focus (any metal) and also a linked additional level of power with a greater focus (pure metal).

How does one go about creating a "linked additional level of power with a greater focus"? That's a new one I haven't come across yet.

 

--- Side Effect (Toxicity) - No clue how to set this one up.
Probably as a complication. Perhaps Dependency (side effects, lack of dependent material causes loss of powers).

I'm thinking...

Side Effect (Toxicity)
* Strength: Extreme [-1]
* Occurs When: specifc thing happens (ingested but unburnt metals deal dmaage after 8 hours) [1/4 less limitation]
* Affects: Character only [0]
* Modifier: Causes predfined damage [1/4 less limitation]
** Total Modifier = -1/2?

 

--- Unified Power (all the powers are linked)
Linked is a specific term in Hero. All powers can be considered linked if they are in the same power framework (draining or supressing the framework will drain/supress them all. The question is, if someone casts suppress telekinesis (to supress your push metal ability), will it stop your stiltwalking ability as well?

As mentioned above, allomancy is a power that shouldn't be able to be aided, supressed, drained, etc..

I was working off this quote:
"Unified Power typically represents constructs where the character needs multiple Powers (in the game system sense) to build all of the aspects or facets of a single power (in the campaign world sense). For example, when creating an air elemental, the GM might apply Unified Power to Desolidification, Flight, and Invisibility, since he bought them all to represent aspects of a single “Body Of Air” power."

Following this example, the Coinshot Multipower (steel allomancer) seems to fit this description. It requires multiple "powers" mechanically to make what is narratively a single power.

If really pressed, and a way was presented to stop an allomancer from using their power, it would technically affect all of the subpowers that make it up. You would in effect have to turn off their ability to burn metals. No burn = no power. So ultimately I'd have to say that yes, Unified Power would appy.

 

Don't forget to include a 'Power' skill in the framework for each allomantic ability. For example, a 'Steelpush' or 'Steel Allomancy' skill for steel, a 'Seeker' or 'Bronze Allomancy' skill for Bronze, etc.

Ok, another apparently dumb question.  How do you add Skills to a Power Framework? How does that work?
Do you mean just create "Knowledge Skill (Coinshot)"? Or do you mean make a new skill "Coinshot" and make the power "Require a Skill Roll" to use?

Thanks again for the input. This is a pretty deeply involved system to learn.

I'd go with IIF (expendable, recovery depending on the metal), but whether I'd use Charges would depend on how "narrative" the game is. If they actually have to take care of their metal vials, I wouldn't use it, if it all happens in the background and you're assumed to have a certain amount of metal in you each day, then go for it.

 

Other than that, the basic setup looks like a good use of a normal Multipower setup. If you intend to stick close to the source, I'd definitely pay attention to the individual power levels, though. So you need X points to properly emulate power X'. That also means that now you've paid for this, and thus you've automatically got X points for power Y', although a mere Y points would be enough of it to do what they did in the novels. I'd recommend against going all up to 11 here.

Generally HERO costs will wreak havoc on some assumptions the players might have, as not every metal will cost the same in HERO. Jumping around by using some coins will be quite cheap, mass mind control will be prohibitely expensive, even if it's rather focused.

So what is the real difference (in laymans terms) between the Focus and Charges?  Additionally, could both be used as in my earlier post (sorry for the split in posts but I'm still on probation).  In that post my first instinct on going through the book was that the Vials of Metals would be a Focus, while Charges would cover how many "charges/units" of metal imbibed?  Or is that simply too complicated and using one or the other is better?  As for the in-game use, I'd have to say our group will lean more toward the narrative as they dislike the minutia of inventory control (i.e. having to track vials carried, used, etc.). Also to be clear, you are saying that if its more Narrative then use charges?

 

Also, can you clarify the part about Power Levels? I got a bit lost with the X/Y analogy as I'm still learning terminology. So in layman's terms I understand that each Metal "power" will have a different point cost. This is why I was thinking each metal would be a different multipower (especially since most characters will only have 1 metal). However, that means that a mistborn (all metals) simply won't be feasable.  That said, I'm uncertain what you meant by paying attention to the power levels.

 

Thanks for the patience.

Thanks for the responses.

Some answers and clarifications first.

* On gaining Allomantic powers, if staying true to the source material, you either "snap" (your power awakens) into a Misting which can only burn a single metal, or a Mistborn which can burn all the metals. You are either born with the power and it awakens, or you can ingest a special and incredibly rare metal (Larasium) to become a Mistborn.

* Allomancers ingest their metal and then "burn" it to effectively activate their power reserve. Beginning to burn is instantaneous and is burned gradually, consuming the reserve. Each reserve is measured in charges based on how much is ingested (e.g. 1 Charge for 1 gram of metal, 3 charges for 1/2 ounce, etc.).  Different metals have different burn rates (e.g. Steel = 20 minutes per charge ingested).
--- Flaring: You can "flare" your metal effectively gaining 1 power rating at the cost of reducing your burn rate (e.g. Steel drops to a burn rate of 2 minutes per charge).

* Hinderances:
--- Must ingest the metal to use the powers. Vials of the metals cab be lost/destroyed.
--- You can only burn while conscious.
--- Impure metals ingested reduces Physique (physical stat = strength, agility, and endurance) and Power Rating with the metal by Half until the reserve of impure metal is burned out. Reducing Physique to 0 = unconsciousness then death within minutes if not aided.
--- Can only hold the metal reserve for up to 8 hours without burning or the metal turns toxic (lose 1 Health per unburnt charge; average Health is usually around 6).

* Many of the things you can do with your allomantic power in the RPG are done through "stunts", ways to augment or alter their abilities.


Powers & Stunts sample - Steel allomancer (aka Coinshot)
* Detect and may Push either ONE or ALL (no in between) metal objects within 100 paces (medium range). If the object is lighter than you, it moves, otherwise you move. You can control velocity (up to max 100mph)
* Common Uses: attack with small metal objects between you and the target, pushing an object held or worn by another, hovering in midair (max height usually 100 paces) or "stilt-walking' up to 25mph, redirecting the movment of a metal object.
* Common Stunts: Increase Velocity, Long Range, Multiple Targets, Reflect Ranged Attack, Steel Running

 

Now, what I think I understand from comments so far...

* Power Framework = Multipower (1 per metal? - Each metal has its own set of 'powers/spells' in the multipower.)  

* Limitations on Framework:
--- Always On + Inherent?
--- Charges (Clips [1 per Focus]; Fuel Charges) - Metal Once Ingested?
--- Focus (Inobvious, Accessible, Breakable, Universal) - the Metals for ingestion?
--- Limited Power (impure metal = 1/2 power)?
--- Side Effect (Toxicity) - No clue how to set this one up.
--- Stops working if Knocked-Out/Stunned (unconscious)
--- Trigger (1 defined set of connditions [only 1 applies at a time], No Time Action, Trigger Expires) - Burning/Flaring?
--- Unified Power (all the powers are linked)


Am I on the right track?

PS: I will look into Hero Designer. Thanks.

Hi all. Very new to the Hero System, but I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I have 5E, 6E and the Kickstarter Fantasy Hero Complete as my current sources of material. Our intent for the system would be a mix of Dark and High Fantasy with a Large mix of elements from many fantasy genres (kind of a frankenstein universe). Thus, I am currently attempting to see how I can convert/create some of our campaign concepts via the system. As my big test, I am trying to model some of the magic systems we want.

 

Some examples are: Blood Magic (may be redundant since most magic works off END?), Divine Magic/Miralces, Furycrafting (based on the Codex alera series), Pact Magic (summoners), Psionics, Rune Magic, Scion Magic (inherited 'powers' based on bloodline), Shamanism, Sorcery (innate themed magic such as born as a Pyromancer or a Reaper), Tattoo Magic, Witchcraft/Hedge Magic, Wizardry (hermetic), etc.

 

Yes we have a wide variety of magic we like to see. None of us are real fans of the "there is only 1 type of magic in the world" settings.

So to that end, I've come looking here. I've already come across KillerShrike.com which has given me a much better grasp of how to model magic systems, but one of the concepts I'd really like to create via Hero is an adaptation of the Allomancy style of magic from the Mistborn series (and RPG). I have a few basic ideas on how to go about it using some of the examples from the killershrike.com site (such as limiting all allomancy by charges), but I was wondering if anyone had done such a system package already (before reinventing the wheel) or if any of you Hero masters had some good suggestions on how to go about building such a system?  As a noob, I feel like I'm floundering quite a bit looking at all the possible ways to build a system (such as the difference between Variable Power Pool vs. Multi-Power vs. Power Construct vs. Compound Power, etc.). I really don't know where to start to (A) make the system work like allomancy is described while staying in the Hero confines and ( making it so that the point costs remain manageable especially in allowing different levels of allomancy such as a misting (only mastery over 1 metal) or mistborn (all metals).

I appreciate and thank everyone in advance for any feedback!

 

For those that are unaware of allomancy / allomancers (mistings and mistborn):
* http://mistborn.wikia.com/wiki/Allomancy
* http://coppermind.net/wiki/Allomancy
* Mistborn RPG Free Preview PDF (70 pages) can be found here:
http://www.crafty-games.com/files/File/Mistborn_Adventure_Game_Preview-Consolidated-v2.pdf

 

PS: I've posted this both here and the Fantasy Hero threads as I wasn't sure where it would best fit or if it would draw specifically different audiences.

Hi all. Very new to the Hero System, but I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I have 5E, 6E and the Kickstarter Fantasy Hero Complete as my current sources of material. Our intent for the system would be a mix of Dark and High Fantasy with a Large mix of elements from many fantasy genres (kind of a frankenstein universe). Thus, I am currently attempting to see how I can convert/create some of our campaign concepts via the system. As my big test, I am trying to model some of the magic systems we want.

 

Some examples are: Blood Magic (may be redundant since most magic works off END?), Divine Magic/Miralces, Furycrafting (based on the Codex alera series), Pact Magic (summoners), Psionics, Rune Magic, Scion Magic (inherited 'powers' based on bloodline), Shamanism, Sorcery (innate themed magic such as born as a Pyromancer or a Reaper), Tattoo Magic, Witchcraft/Hedge Magic, Wizardry (hermetic), etc.

 

Yes we have a wide variety of magic we like to see. None of us are real fans of the "there is only 1 type of magic in the world" settings.

So to that end, I've come looking here. I've already come across KillerShrike.com which has given me a much better grasp of how to model magic systems, but one of the concepts I'd really like to create via Hero is an adaptation of the Allomancy style of magic from the Mistborn series (and RPG). I have a few basic ideas on how to go about it using some of the examples from the killershrike.com site (such as limiting all allomancy by charges), but I was wondering if anyone had done such a system package already (before reinventing the wheel) or if any of you Hero masters had some good suggestions on how to go about building such a system?  As a noob, I feel like I'm floundering quite a bit looking at all the possible ways to build a system (such as the difference between Variable Power Pool vs. Multi-Power vs. Power Construct vs. Compound Power, etc.). I really don't know where to start to (A) make the system work like allomancy is described while staying in the Hero confines and ( making it so that the point costs remain manageable especially in allowing different levels of allomancy such as a misting (only mastery over 1 metal) or mistborn (all metals).

I appreciate and thank everyone in advance for any feedback!

 

For those that are unaware of allomancy / allomancers (mistings and mistborn):
* http://mistborn.wikia.com/wiki/Allomancy
* http://coppermind.net/wiki/Allomancy
* Mistborn RPG Free Preview PDF (70 pages) can be found here:
http://www.crafty-games.com/files/File/Mistborn_Adventure_Game_Preview-Consolidated-v2.pdf

 

PS: I've posted this in both the 6E and the Fantasy Hero threads as I wasn't sure where it would best fit or if it would draw specifically different audiences.