Saposhiente

Thanks for the detailed response to my earlier questions. I'd like to clarify the difference between using your Nontargeting Sense to make a PER roll, and seeing someone's Fringe. I'm under the impression that you can see someone's Fringe with your Targeting Sense, which is why you suffer no CV penalties if you succeed. So in question 1 I ask how long it takes to make a (Targeting) PER roll to see someone's Fringe, but in your reply 1b, you talk about how long it takes to make a Nontargeting PER roll. Are these rolls intended to be the same thing--as in, for a Half Phase action (or shorter if GM permits), you can try to detect an invisible character, and if you succeed, then if you're within 2m (or 16m) you see their fringe, and otherwise you get the Nontargeting PER benefits? Or should you roll separately to see fringe or use a Nontargeting sense? Thanks again.

I'm trying to figure out the details of being attacked by Invisible characters and seeing their Fringe in combat. Based on the Invisibility rules and the Inability to Sense an Opponent section, my understanding is that there are three levels of Invisibility detection, in increasing order: 0. Undetected: 1/2 OCV 1/2 DCV HTH, 0 OCV 1/2 DCV Ranged, possible Surprise bonus 1. Nontargeting Sense (PER roll, 1/2 phase): 1/2 OCV -1 DCV HTH, 1/2 OCV Ranged, lasts until your next phase (Changed from 5th Ed, where it lasted until Stunned or "turned attention elsewhere" (attack someone else?)) 2. Saw Visible Attack (PER roll, no time, automatically succeed if you were attacked): -1 OCV, ??? DCV, lasts until Invisible character moves 3. See Fringe (PER roll, ??? time, must be within 2m): No penalty, lasts until ??? My questions are: 1. When exactly do you get to make a PER roll to see someone's fringe? As a half phase or zero phase action? As an action that takes no time? If it takes no time, suppose an Invisible character, for their Phase, does a 1/2 move and then attacks you. Can you make this roll between the move and the attack to negate the DCV penalty? If so, do you need to be aware of the character, succeed on a Nontargeting Sense roll, or beat them in a DEX roll to do this? 2. How long do the benefits of seeing someone's Fringe last? Until they move more than 2m away? Until they move at all? Until your next Phase? 3. Do you suffer a DCV penalty against someone whose Visible Attack you saw? 4. If you are punched or hit by an Invisible Power Effects attack, are you considered as Saw Visible Attack or using Nontargeting (Touch) Sense? Thanks for your time