Melenkurion

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever First of all, Tolkien's Middle Earth can't be bested. That ain't happening, until you get a philologist with a brilliant imagination that is not happening. Ask the authors you posted, not one of them will disagree, including Donaldson. The thing about The Land is that it is healthy, it sings of health, the earthpower we talk about here is not even open to debate in The Land. The hills truly are alive with the sound of music. Donaldson's world is not shallow. Only shallow people use that word anyway. Guess that makes me shallow. Rats. Earthpower, that is what The Land is about, sustaining beauty, without a flaw. Maybe that was Kevin's flaw, he could not accept The Land if it wasn't perfect. The Ritual of Desecration is a child's tantrum, that is why Mhoram, no child he, would never do that. Kevin Landwaster passed centuries like others pass decades. Sorry, Kevin was almost as bad as Foul. Why didn't Elena bring back Berek? Berek was a true champion. Of course she probably thought she had Berek by her side in Covenant. So, this is what seperates Donaldson from the rest, his Land is pure emotion, and that emotion is dangerous. Earthpower, healthsense, same thing. White gold, Covenant, same thing. Mhoram changed everything when he understood Loric's Krill. Covenant is the white gold. he is the paradox. He is both fool and saint, savior and destroyer. In the end I think The Land will be destroyed, but Foul will not escape. Foul will live in the cesspool he created. Since the Law of Death was destroyed, the dead will live on, but not in The Land. I really think Donaldson is going to bring some of them here to our world. Can you imagine The Hurachai in Manhattan? Or a stonedowner in Miami? Maybe that was the point, Covenant refused Mhoram's call to The Land to save a girl. Linden Avery has The Staff of Law. Maybe that is where he is going with this. Don't know. What I suggested is stupid, but who knows. I do know I will be a senior citizen by the time he finishes his four books. "Where to?" the cab driver asked. "Where?" Bane said. "Yeah, where are you going? You know, address, yadayada.." "What is this yadayada..it sounds mystical." "Ok, pal, you don't want a ride. But there are laws." "Laws?" "Yeah, like don't break a vow, don't litter.." "Vow?" "Oh, now you are listening." "We are Hurachai, we know of vows." "Hey, pal you don't look so good. Mabe you should call a doctor. As for me, I am outta here." The cab drives off. Bane looks around and sees many forgettable things. "We suffice," he says. Bane grabs a policeman and asks in his impassive voice, "Where is the Un-Believer?" The cop reaches for his gun, Bane slaps it away. "We are Hurachai, weapons do not obtain. Where is Ur-Lord Thomas Covenant? The Ur-Lord spoke of being a writer, a teller of tales." The cop, on his back, nearly crippled points to a sign above Bane's head. The sign reads "All Things Shall Sin" a Novel By Thomas Covenant, bestselling author of "Giltmurder's Daughter". Now a Major Motion Picture Bane paused. "You will take me to the Ur-Lord." The cop sputtered, "What? I'm a cop. Do you have any idea of who you are messing with?" "You do not suffice." The cop was not in fear of his life but he was becoming exasperated. In his need he shot out: "Covenant? The author? That's who you want?" "The Ur-Lord is required." "Look, I'm not fighting you, ok? Just let me up. If you want you can put me back on the ground again. Alright?" Bane shrugged and nodded. The cop straightened his clothes, hair and hat. "What do you want with that leper?" Bane almost slapped the cop. "There is need. The Ur-Lord must protect." "Ok, pal, I got ya. This Ur-Lord he protects? right?" Bane nodded. The policeman leaned against his cruiser. He sighed and ran a hand over his face. "Sorry, to tell you this, but Thomas Covenant died three years ago. You know, they go in threes. Dean and then Frank, and then" "Lies do not obtain. We are The Hurachai. Ringthane lives." "Ring--what? I don't know what's going on here, maybe I don't want to know. But I have back up and they are on the way." "Back-up? What is back-up?" Bane asked as he readied himself on the balls of his feet. "Cops. Like me. More cops, a lot more." "Cops? This name is foreign. It sounds ineffectual." "They have guns, rifles, shotguns, tear gas." "These sound like despite." "Ok, pal, just warning you. Cops do not like people messing with other cops." "What is cops?" "We are sworn to protect and serve." "I know of this oath. This leads to desecration." "well, ok. But right now, you got two police squads pulling up and the reason I am telling you this is because you are insane. Surrender. Give yourself up before more lives are lost." "We are Hurachai, we do not surrender. Our fealty to The Lords is over, but we are not Corruption's tools. We suffice, the "cops" will be dealt with." "They have an arsenal!" "What is arsenal? This word is strange and evil." With that Bane sprang through the door way.

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever Then the Ranyhyn would be right in fearing him. Covenant is worse than Kevin , just like Foul. I don't understand someone who creates this beautiful place and the only thing he can come up with is to destroy it? That says more about Donaldson than it does about The Land. I figured Foul was killing The Land by degrees. So Covenant who sacrificied everything to save The Land ends up destroying it? Why bother with Covenant then? Even our world is not that tragic. Unless Donaldson means a re-birth of The Land. The "intent of The Land"? Is what? I really don't see how having Covenant die to uphold The Arch of Time works out to his destruction of The Land. Where is Foul in this? Foul is an idiot. He is a one-dimensional thinker; like Dracula, he always returns to what worked before. So Foul, then, was lying when he was defeated. Covenant was defeated, not Foul. Foul never said, "YOu dare not! No, no no!" Oh that was Covenant's fantasy. If Donaldson thinks that is the way to go, put it on Covenant, then The Land was never real. And I have no interest in reading further. Donaldson says "acceptence"? Then he should have made sure that Covenant raped Foul too. Why not? In the end, there is just the end. Brilliant. This just is unacceptable. Foul will not be defeated or freed by the destruction of The Land. What is the point? Foul is trapped? He was trapped way before Covenant came along. Sorry, I love SRD's books. It probably is just the same thing again, Donaldson writes something that makes me writhe and then later I get over it because I understand. It serves no purpose to destroy The Land. Foul wouldn't bother destroying the Land if that was it! He might just because but that doesn't win him anything, he is still trapped. Ok, enough.

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever Yes, I know about Mhoram the oracle. I don't think I am right in what I posted, just curious. With the exception Foamfollower, Mhoram was the most tolerant towards Covenant. Why? He insulted Mhoram's grief over the death of his parents. But, only Mhoram, maybe Foamfollwer and maybe Bannor, believed that Covenant was the key--not to victory, but to not give into despair. I always got the impression that Mhoram was a lot more than he made himself out to be, especially since he grappled with a Raver and the Raver feared him. I just keep thinking about Kevin Landwaster as I read the books and what was it that drove him to despair? Remember Elena's bone scultpture of Covenant, and Covenant thought it was Bannor? TC thought the Bloodguards' oath was extravegant. And, boy, did Covenant not know The Bloodguard and The Bloodguard know him? No Bloodguard was rejected by The Ranyhyn, some Lords were, Covenant got an army of Ranyhyn who reared to him and were terrified of him. I find that sad. The Bloodguard respect Earthpower, The Ranyhyn are the expression of Earthpower and Health Sense. Ok, here is what I am getting at. (starting to sound like Covenant!) When Covenant becomes a leper, what was going on in The Land? Or more importantly when Covenant married and put on the white gold ring that was at least five years before the leprosy. I'm not sure if Donaldson went that far with Covenant. Still you got to wonder.

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever I agree cutting Covenant a break on the rape, because of the impossibility of his situation. Thing is, Covenant didn't do that; he always tried to justify it but he still never really forgave himself for that. But I have a question. Berek spoke of "white gold", something that doesn't exist in The Land. How would he know about white gold? Unless he was given a vision of some sort. What I am getting at is did Berek and later Kevin Landwaster, see the advent of Thomas Covenant in The Land? That poem about white gold, and also the one who bears it "hero and fool, potent and powerless" is that what led Kevin to The Ritual of Desecration? He saw the terribleness of Ringthane, White Gold Wielder? Berek did too, but maybe he hoped. I understand that Kevin brought on the ritual hoping it would end Lord Foul. Berek in his extremity brought forth the Fire Lions, just like Covenant did, although in his situation he had no idea of what was going on. I love that in the book "White Gold Wielder" that Covenant was named Earthfriend, just like Berek. But in the end as Mhoram said to TC, "You are the white gold". He is the paradox. Which I thought was brilliant, because Covenant in Our World is a leper, Foul in The Land is a leper to, despised. I think Foul counted on that, that Covenant would cling to his leperhood, his despite. BUt Thomas Covenant was no quitter. Like Berek, no matter what, he was going to survive. WEll, I ramble.

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever I just wanted to ask one thing--and then I will not go away, ha--does anyone here think that Berek Halfhand and Kevin Landwaster saw the coming of Thomas Covenant? How would Berek know about "white gold" it doesn't exist in The Land? Why did Kevin Landwaster do The Ritual of Desecration? Covenant in "White Gold Wielder" was called Earthfriend by The First of The Search, a giant. Berek was known as Earthfriend. Kevin wasn't. I am just curious about this. Donaldson thought his story through thoroughly. Did they get a vision from The Creator about Covenant? Berek saw hope and Kevin saw despair...? Covenant threw that tapestry of Berek out the window when he was first at Revelstone. Covenant, also, doesn't care too much for Kevin Landwaster. That is why in Lord Foul's Bane he was always trying to get a reaction from Bannor. He wanted Bannor to admit to something, weakness? Zealotry? He was appalled at the Bloodguards simplicity. Covenant, knew that Kevin did what he did because he gave up, the fidelity of the hurachhai, earthpower...what I am asking is did he see the arrival of someone not from the Land, who would resemble Berek, and wield white gold?

Re: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the HEROic Unbeliever You got to keep in mind that Covenant was a leper. I know that sounds obvious but he spent 8 months in a place where they told him all he is is a leper. Then he goes to Magic Land. WTF? F stands for Foozle. Everything he believed to be his doom was changed into a new doom--champion of The Land. I hated Covenant when I first read those books. I am re-reading Lord Foul's Bane and I understand his situation now. From a world where diseases just pop up, he goes to a place where this no disease, only health, that would have to drive you a bit crazy. But Covenant was almost always right when it came to understanding Lord Foul. LF is a leper. Only in The Land LF has power. Covenant has power. The White Gold, the paradox, and isn't Covenant a paradox in The Land? The hurtloam could revitalize his nerves, but could not "cure" leprosy. He was in a world where white gold and leprosy didn't exist. Berek knew about white gold but not leprosy. LF is the disease in The Land. This is why The Lords can't win fighting him. They don't understand disease. The Creator of The Land knew all these things, chose Covenant, a leper, to fight the mightiest of foes. Because of the paradox. LF doesn't get the paradox. He thinks the more power he has the stronger he becomes. Covenant believes in impotence, because that is what a leper is taught. "Don't touch me." I have no idea about why The Lords Council chose Elena, who was insane, to be The High Lord, anymore than why Hile Troy was made Warmark, unless it is what I said before, The Lords do not understand disease. maybe that is what drove Kevin Landwaster mad. But no matter, Berek and Kevin never beat Foul, Covenant did--TC 2 LF 0. I love that he was called Earthfriend in White Gold Wielder, so was he Berek reborn? Notice everytime Covenant goes to the Land the hurachai are there to protect him. Maybe, they don't see Kevin Landwaster in him. maybe they see Berek come back to set things right. The key to The Chronicles is understanding despite. Covenant would never give into that because he understood and felt all the sacrifices that were made on his behalf. Mhoram studied The krill of Loric Vilesilencer and understood--Covenant is the white gold, the paradox.