Evil Toki

Re: The City/Hero Connection

I'm liking a lot of your ideas here guys. The idea of the unwritten code where a city protector gets the courtesy nod' date=' the idea of a league based on scattered city protectors coming together in cases of emergency. I may just have to use these. I can see some fun rivalries between say the New York Super Hero and Chicago's or L.A.'s.[/quote']

Yeah this thread has some good ideas, keep it coming

Re: My Campaign Site

Thank you very much. I can't wait to actually start the campaign.

My players are pretty excited to play the "signature characters" of a setting that will be published. (Well, one day, when my little daughter sleeps through the night and I can actually work on it).

Although this will be an M&M Superlink book, I think it will work with pretty much any system, since I'll focus on less rules and more background.

Looks very biblical and mythical I like it... good luck.

Re: PLEASE ! No more 'What would your character do ?' threads

Yeah them threads must go... good god there is way too many... and I don't read them.

Re: [4color] Why do you dislike the Iron Age style? (No flames, ok?)

It's not necessary to have heroes in any story but what some Iron Age comics do is wallow in evil' date=' petty behavior in an extremely unhealthy way.[/quote']

I like wallowing

Re: Supremo Revisions

Pinoy pride baby... this is good stuff

Re: Looking at the Iron/Silver Age threads (not a flame)

I want realism... like action movie realism will that do?

Re: Are you Judge, Jury, and Executioner?

Thanks Victim for making the situation all the more clear I appreciate it.

Re: Looking at the Iron/Silver Age threads (not a flame)

I am a middle grounder of sorts

Re: [4color] Why do you dislike the Iron Age style? (No flames, ok?)

First off I know I have been crucified because people think I am pro Iron Age or Bronze or Monkey Age… I guess I have never cared about ages, because well I never grew up reading that magical Silver Age of comics, so I have never seen my games as trying to recreate that feel.

I just play games.

This is why I say it is all just a comic, but I use them for ideas only, not to represent them in my games. My games tend to be on the basis of peoples with powers, who may or may not be heroes. It all depends on the players, and so far it as worked great, as the players define for themselves what they will and will not do.

If they kill and decide to make characters with edgy backgrounds, then that is their choice. If they want to be more campy or retro in attitude I let them. I let the characters clash, and so far we have all been pretty adult about it, kind of funny for a game about teens.

So in many ways my style is reactionary.

I react to the moods and whims of my players. I don’t try to emulate any period or style I guess, I just try and tell a good story. Some are goofy, and others are serious and very gritty. I tend to be a big fan of explaining the behind the scenes action; while also showing that the world is both a scary place, a good place, and a mysterious place as well.

So I am not a fan of any particular age… just give me a good story, which is why the debate and the vehement hatred of varying styles is so amusing to me. It should not be such a big deal, let people play what they want to play, read what they want to read, and do what they want to do.

Just make it fun.

Re: [iron] Why do you dislike the Four Color/Silver age (No Flames please)

I love it all, why must I choose although I have a tendency to lean heavy Gory Iron Age when I game

Re: A suggestion for peace?

Maybe threads could be marked. Something like [iron] or [4color] according to content so the fans of either side could safely avoid them?

That might make things worse... but it might help as well what if you like elements of both like me

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

We get it you don't like it... so what would your ideal comic be then Agent X, stop pointing out the faults and present some ideas

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

Thanks lapsedgamer at least someone is trying to stay on topic LOL... I have more ideas forthcoming, even a better version of the Champions ideas I threw out there... maybe Champions should work for Primus?

Re: Ultimate vs The Authority

Oh, God, you people really never let down a grudge. Again, I may have forcefully attacked the stuff you like, but it seems that it was more than balanced by attacks to stuff I like. And for every time I attacked your ideas, my ideas were attacked in turn. I really strive not to carry grudges ad always be civil, even to people that have personally attacked me (lemme check, during recent and past discussions I've read veiled and-not-so-veiled labeling of "arrogant, fascist, psychopath, mentally disturbed, immature adolescent", just because I stubbornly refuse to bow down to the Righteous Patriotic Four-Color Civic-Minded Law-Abiding American Dogma, and forcefully defend my tastes in comics, and the politico-moral beliefs that are attached to them). If I were to bring to some four-color fans the same level of preemptive resentment and hostility they bring to me, given the heap of personal attacks sent in my direction, I'd have to come to the forum with a virtual machine gun and grenade launcher, and spray flames each time one of the people that attacked me opens the mouth.

 

Sorry to neutral readers for the bitter emotional discharge, but I feel bitter when they keep hanging the Scarlet Letter to my neck again and again.

Preach on brother

Re: Are you Judge, Jury, and Executioner?

Fortunately' date=' we have people who grasp the concept of 'heroism' around here, so we don't have people who intentionally try to kill people (with one exception, of course, but he never wins the arguments).[/quote']

I am curious so do you think the teen was unheroic in killing the terrorist trying to murder millions?

 

I admit the act itself is well violent, but is it unheroic as well?

Re: Are you Judge, Jury, and Executioner?

Makes sense... I tend to be in the middle and it depends on the game... usually my characters have no compunctions using lethal force if the cause is great enough... or if he is dealing with a complete psychopath.

Well I have been running a teen super being game, based in an Aberrant inspired world,, very much Iron Age and gritty. The kids work for the United Nations and have been trained to counteract other superhuman threats often with extreme prejudice if they have to. If terrorists decide they want to try and destroy a building, then the response will be quick, and lethal. There team is called Legacy.

Not all the way Authority, but pretty close.

Now the heroes just slid into another universe, one that is very four-color and almost late Silver Age/Bronze Age in feel. They run into another teen team, Teen Justice, that fights crime, and unlike the heroes don’t get paid to do it. They avoid confrontation and even end up fighting alongside these heroes against a team of super villains bent on using a toxic nerve gas to poison the whole city and kill everyone, a plot by Ares to spur the nation to war for another terrorist act.

In the midst of the battle the leader of the super villains is killed by one of the teens from Legacy, accidentally, but he still killed him nonetheless. Now this hero has killed before when terrorists attacked him and he fried them with a cosmic blast, but the Teen Justice teens react with shock!

In fact the leader, Nightchild, pretty much berates him for killing the leader saying that no matter what Teen Justice does not kill. They could have taken him down without killing him. The bomb had just been deactivated in the same round of combat but the damage was done. I enjoyed the clash of ideals and the fallout is great.

Just wondering if others have had similar scenes between a clash of ideals… and I guess wonder where do there heroes draw the line for killing, or do they never draw line and always take down their foes without killing them. Or is killing acceptable and they don’t have too many moral compunctions with taken down a foe if they pose that great a threat…

Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL!

Yeah, there are few things that make you go "Hmmm?" when you look at Ultimate Xavier.

 

But good lord, he's a choir boy compared to Ultimage Mags...

Ultimate Magneto is evil, but he is the dangrous kind of evil. The kind of evil that makes you think, you know maybe he is right... even though you know he is dead wrong.

Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL!

Actually, Ult Xaver is *not* supposed to be the bastion of light in the Ultiverse.

 

That's the tragedy of Ultimate X-Men. Although the kids don't know it, it's *not* "Magneto = bad, Xavier = good".

That was my thoughts, but I wasn't sure.

Instead, it's more like an Aberrant thing. Magneto is the 'kill all the baselines!' faction of the Teragen. And Ult Xavier is the 'no, let's just smile and manipulate the baselines while pretending to be friendly' faction of the Teragen.

 

When your only two choices are between Geryon and Count Orzaiz, your life sucks.

Yeah you really are stuck between a rock and a hard place there... nice Aberrant references... loved that setting. But yeah Xavier is a manipulative cripple... he scares me sometimes.

Well he isn’t evil per se, but throughout the seven trade paperbacks I have read on the Ultimate X-men he tends to be wrong or make bad choices. Now I know he is supposed to be the bastion of light, but I wonder about the old bald man.

I mean he pretty much used his mind control abilities on the whole United States to fake Magneto’s death. Not sure if he was justified because the admitted terrorist once freed from his control goes on another killer rampage.

He sends Wolverine with Cyclops to the Savage Land, just after they almost killed each other. No surprise that Cyclops does not comes back, and well was nearly killed by Wolverine, but hey he was trying to teach them a lesson right?

He is pretty arrogant too, and well obviously a horrible father and husband, again pointing at his many failures both professional and personal. I mean the whole reprogramming of Magneto is a pretty arrogant act in thinking he could change one of the most evil men on the planet.

He sends a mixed message as well. He promotes peace and nonviolence and then trains his X-men to fight, although they should refrain from taking lives. This failed horribly in World Tour, and nearly got Iceman killed. His actions spark the Ultimate War, and nearly get his X-men annihilated again.

I know there are other happenstances but I am just wondering if I am alone in thinking that there is something just off or wrong about Xavier? At least in the Ultimate universe.

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

LOL I forgot what boards I am at...

I only mentioned the sordid because that was sort of the feel that the Ultimates was going with... just relax people, there is room for any kind of story in comics

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

Different strokes for different folks I know my tastes are darker then most at times

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

Agente X, I think you have some valid points.

 

but let me throw this at you. Just because a subject matter is tired, doesn't mean there isn't room for a new stab at it if it is good... regardless of genre. As always, it is in the doing.

 

The thread asked what *I*, *You* would do with a Champs comic book. I gave my answer... but not many others have. You haven't really offered up an idea, just been ripping apart mine.

 

I think what you said about those human moments is really cool. And if I was the writer/artist on such a book, that is precisely what I would be aiming for. I'm a huge "connect the dots" kinda guy. I like seeing how environment and events influence people. And that is why my subosition stressed those issues.

 

I'm also a big believer in the Joss Whedon school of genre writing... that precisely because it is genre, one can tackle issues in humorous, thoughtful, unusual ways. Not that Im up for making Witchcraft the subject of child abuse (thanks, lived that one up close and personal myself. Tack on the addiction issue too), nor make Sapphire an ex-druggie.... but doing a subplot where Kinetix is running himself ragged cause he likes the endorphin high? Tackling doping issues in sports through the metaphor of superpowers in sports? Why not?

 

I also subscribe to Joss's theory of "emotional realism"... where the world can get wacky as you want it, but as long as the characters react the way that seems in line with the way they are, the places they come from and he environment that they run in.... that will carry a lot of entertainment.

 

I'm not interested in "realism". Super powers are not realistic. But I am interested in teh emotional response to such a different world than our own.

I have to agree, I only threw out ideas... honestly I like to have more human intimate stories LOL personally I think a Love triangle would be fun too

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

Difficult social issues? Sleeping around isn't a difficult social issue. Addiction is usually something the addicted obsess about. Molestation is a very heavy subject for a game or comic that is centered around wearing silly costumes and thwarting supervillains. It's a particularly odd subject for a genre generally dominated by men. I thought they made movies of the week that usually play on Sundays on the networks or most any day on Lifetime to cover that issue.

I don't make it the focus of any story, not at first, and like JJR said... some people enjoy heigtened drama. Now in my own games, I don't glorify these subjects but they exist, and we engage in them tastefully, at least I try to. Realism is not limitied to sex and dysfunction, realism is consequences, and learnign that people are people, mistakes are made, and sometimes we try to shoot for the stars and end up just hitting our heads on the door frame.

I like issues, but I don't focus solely on them.

Re: Ultimate vs The Authority

Well on the issue of making light in the midst of combat, that is a common aspect of the military lifestyle. Killing is serious business, there needs to be an air of levity even the Spartans did this, they made light of this serious situation because to dwell on it is just too horrible for most to contemplate.

So yes I don’t see anything wrong with making a joke, or trying to brush off that act with levity, it only helps to maintain one’s humanity. And it does happen, it is happening and will continue to happen in just about any military in the world, including the Authority from what I am reading.

Action-movies of course play on this, but it isn’t like this is anything new.

Combat is hell, it sucks, but let’s face it, as far as Champions games, or comics are concerned they happen. Fighting and is often the focus of any character, and isn’t it odd that many abilities have an offensive and defensive slant to them to use just for combat? It may harsh, it may be brutal, but combat still has to be entertaining.

Now am I justifying it for myself, of course not.

But in the context of comics, especially Ultimates or Authority, there will be times of levity in the midst of combat it happens. That stress, which anguish has to be channeled somewhere. Soldiers are people first, they are honorable men and women who put their ass on the line for an ideal. Sometimes they don’t even believe in that ideal, but they still fight, glorifying violence is well… it isn’t good in the first place but violence is a way of life for most heroes.

I mean where would Superman be if he never raised a fist.

Just an extreme example but I think some are taking this to extreme it just sounds like the Authority is more graphic then other comics, but seriously Spiderman jokes all the time when he is fighting people. Sure he isn’t killing them, but he is still engaging in a life and death situation…

By the way I am in the military as well...