Evil Toki

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

I rather like the Champions Universe as it is. Its not THAT happy and rosey and "squeaky clean". You can just tell who are supposed to be the good guys without a program. And who care about realism in a story about people flying and shooting lasers out of their eyes?

LOL I know what you mean, I am not saying it needs to be changed. I just thought it would be a fun exercise, and yes who needs realism, not many, I tend to propose hard questions in my stories but I like to think I do it tastefully...

Re: A few thoughts

Many folks need to breathe NNDs of that SFX are wonderful things.

 

Anything with the word "Neural" in it is usually a neat device. Screwing with someone's nervous system is a wonderful excuse for DEX or EGO drains (DEX more if you want to go on one, but your mentalist bud will be your best friend if you reduce their egos), or NNDs.

 

Don't neglect the art of deception, beyond just stealth I mean. People expect your gadgeteer/martial artist mix to throw nasty stuff at them. There's no reason you can't take advantage of that. Chuck a relatively harmless thing at them while making a presence attack to scare them with the word "Boom."

Get a high enough effect and the foe may have just wasted a phase diving for cover from an ash tray (A GM let me do this though an Acting roll was required)

I like this on many levels

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

I'll leave it at this. Molestation and Licentiousness are just not interesting' date=' life-affirming topics for comic books that attempt to mix with superhero themes. I weary of this kind of "story-telling." There isn't anything profound about it and it doesn't produce anything positive. It comes off as pandering and perverse.[/quote']

Oh... I guess I had not seen it that way.

 

Just an extension of how I run my own games... I like to use layers and reveal things as time goes along, I just applied that to my ideas. We just diverge in the kinds of storis we like to see, because I just have a darker image of things I guess.

 

But don't think of it as crap if done correctly, and over time, and not just all at once. Layers interlaced into stories that are subtly hinted, but not just thrown in th face for shock value, I just find squeaky clean backgrounds to be bland.

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

That is freakin' depressing. I have no interest in dysfunctional drivel. Please don't take this personally' date=' but there isn't anything of value in reading or coming up with this kind of crap.[/quote']

I am not quite following how this is depressing? Really just setting a stage for the heroes to try and start from, I guess I have a preference for a team that has some stumbling blocks to overcome, while working to become the force of good they have the potential to be.

 

No offense taken I happen to love The Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men

Re: Ultimate Champions: How would you do it?

Writing a champions comic book has a lot of pitfalls' date=' IMO. First, the characters are meant to demonstrate what 350 pts and examples of various archtypes. So, the are not REALLY designed to be a super team that is new or ground breaking.[/quote']

 

You don't have to limit yourself to the Champions themselves... I should have titled this Ultimate Champion's Universe... but eh

 

But having said that, I think there is potential for an interesting comic.

 

Being a northern neighbor of Detroit, I would focus much of the early issues on that. The whole rebuilding thing, with the champions in the mix during the rebuilding process... it isn't crime that brings them together initially, it is recovery.

 

Would you have Detroit destroyed by Dr. Destroyer as well or is it another event tat destroyed Detroit. For that fact how would you repaint Dr. Destroyer for this new Universe?

 

I would challenge IMMEDIATELY' date=' 1st issue, the horrendous lack of a black person on the team, in a city that is mourning thousands of black casualities and displacing thousands more. Kinetix would show up first issue and I would tackle that issue head on with as much honesty and care as a white guy can.[/quote']

 

Nice, I like that idea! Would you have Kinetix join the team or just make an appearance to reinforce the issue.

 

I would campaign heavily to get rid of Ironclad (at first' date=' intro later on). I would rather have aliens, as a concept, be a big deal in a first contact situation down the line. Not already part of the weft and woof of the society. The drama of having that 1st contact storyline, say around issue 12, is too good to pass up.[/quote']

 

We think alike, I was thinking either Ironclad appear later or he be apart of some government agency that is monitoring the superhuman phenomena, and he is an amnesiac who does not know what his heritage may be exactly. Although First Contact would be a great story to play out!

 

In the first 12 issues, really not have that much super brawls. Maybe a villian who manipulates data, cracking some of the codes to the new traffic situations in order to extort. I would probably build to a Mechanon like invasion of the new spanky-tech Millennium City. But really be more integrating and exploring what supers, in the World of Tomorrow, is going to look like, what problems it would generate and let the readers get to know each of the team in an issue that highlights them. How does the politics of the Big Three affect intro of technology that moves away from fossil fuels? How are the Lions, Tigers, Wings and Pistons dealing with poor ticket sales due to a couple of mutant athletes scandals and the focus of America going to these new media darlings; Super heroes? Canada's response to having the most progressive, most gleaming, most target rich city on their border? How does the suburbs of Detroit absorb so many refugees, deal with this new dynamic city, cope with an infrastructure that can't keep up with Millennium City's?

 

That would be my backdrob against which to sketch out the adventures of the Champions.

 

So I guess that would be Iron Age mentality.

 

I think tat is a good setup. I would probably have the Champions working for or with the government through PRIMUS perhaps. I would not use Ironclad either, not at first anyways.

 

Defender I think I would make some type of government sponsored hero, probably painting him as the poster boy for what an ideal hero should be; more or less moving the pressure from the inside, to the outside, probably contrasting that with his own insecurities about his capabilities as a hero and a leader.

 

I think I would take Nighthawk and make him a rival to Defender, both professionally and personally. I would change Nighthawk to be more of a government agent who was banking on being made the leader of this Champions team only to be passed over yet again for a younger, prettier, or in this case more handsome, model. I wouldn’t change too much ability wise, but the costume could be modernized and the hawk hood would have to go.

 

Sapphire would stay as is for the most part. The music angle can tie into the media blitz quite well. She would be the unquestioned sex-kitten of the group, and her stories would involve her affairs as much as her trying to reconcile being a hero with her career. Just for some fun, I would have her addicted to painkillers or some other drug, just for some fun.

 

Finally Witchcraft would stay pretty pure, but her back-story would be rife with molestation, a broken home, and a psychotic sister who is currently locked up in a mental institution after snapping. In fact I would play up the fact that magic is considered fantasy. In fact no one would believe that she really is a witch and believe that her powers stem from some as of yet unknown power source. Because of her shattered home, she has low self-esteem and does not realize that much of the friction between Nighthawk and Defender is over her. She isn’t even sure why the United States Government wants her to help in the effort, but she is doing her best to help, and not devolve into the state of her of her sister….

 

Just some errant thoughts.

If you were given the green light to write an Ultimate Champion’s comic, who would you showcase and why. What kind of stories would you tell, would you make an homage to the Silver Age, a gritty Iron Age story, or something altogether different. Just because it is in the Ultimate style does not mean it can't be fun... how would you reinvent the Champion's Universe?

What would your first story arc be?

Basically with all the talk on the boards about what a hero is, a superhero is, and how people dislike certain styles or writers; just wondering what the kick ass fan base here at the boards would do with these iconic characters and why?

And if you truly hate the Champion’s Universe then well I am sure you can think of something…

Apologize in advance if there is another thread like this... just wondering, because it sounds like some people out there have good ideas...

snip... posted without thinking...

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

Toki' date=' I honestly think the section you are quoting where address to Bblackmoor and not you.[/quote']

LOL Damn the written word, I thought he was talking to me

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

> In what sentence did I say I was defending the Authority? [snip]

 

Are you going to claim that you /aren't/?

I am going to say I can't defend something I have not read yet. I know where you stand, once I read the Authority then I can formulate where I stand on the subject of that series. So far from what I have read, I think I might enjoy it as a story, not that I would agree with everything they do, but I don't have to agree with the heroes, I just need to be entertained by what they do.

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

Who cares it is a comic...

 

You people hate it or love it but either way I think Millar and Ellis set out to do what they intended make Authority famous or infamous...

This was the post that started it.

In what sentence did I say I was defending the Authority? I only said that Millar and Ellis did just what they set out to do, create a story that will create a strong reaction either positive or negative by taking the normal “team comic†conventions cranking them to 11, and then splashing vast amounts of violence.

Now I have not read this comic yet, I plan to, mainly because of this discussion, because to me it sounds interesting.

Your posts are on the same intellectual level of debate as "Anybody who doesn't like the Authority is obviously a doo-doo brain!" Dressing it up in fancier words won't change that.

 

Now find a reason to defend the comic based on something other than what alleged flaws you perceive in me or my mentality.

Now this is just not needed, I am not here to defend or attack anything. Maybe if you weren’t so vehemently opposed to those who do not follow your ideas then you would see clearly, that I am not here to join the shouting match of Authority sucks or not, and more less learn more about why this comic sparks so much hatred and love, over a medium that in the end is created for sheer entertainment.

You take it more seriously, so do Trekkie fans, which does not mean that I can’t find amusement in their mania.

AHEM got off-track.

I think if anything, the Authority sounds like it was a good thing at least early on. It shook things up in the mainstream, or at least turned a few heads. Successful or not it has had an impact, one that cannot be denied, and one that will affect comics in the near future. It may be only a phase, it may be a change, good or bad, I don’t know.

But if we get more comics like the Ultimates line, I am all for it. Over the top or not, Matrix, block buster feel or not, I enjoy that style of storytelling. I think Millar has done wonderful things with that line, and from what others have said, Ellis did great work with the Authority.

Can we just agree to disagree and leave at that?

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

> Actually I only reply because it seems you have some kind of personal

> evndetta against my person, [snip]

 

He don't know me very well, do he folks?

 

No, Evil Toki, it's not personal. I react the same way to *everyone* who behaves like you do.

 

As quite a few long-suffering residents of this domain can attest.

 

[snip]

> Actually they are only in reference to yourself, Chuckg,

 

And he /wonders/ why I don't seem to like how he's been behaving?

 

BTW, if you want it to go to PMs, send me one.

 

[snip the rest]

 

Or we can stop now.

Stop now, I really don't care to know your "reputation" I would rather see more posts on this subject.

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

Last I checked, there was something called 'lurking'. If it's information you want to read, you can do that without having to post to people.

 

You can *especially* do it without having to post to them *repeatedly*.

 

Something I'm not serious about usually gets only one post, at best. Something I *am* serious about, I follow and reply to until the discussion runs out.

Actually I only reply because it seems you have some kind of personal evndetta against my person, if you do, then please PM me, I would rather not pollute this thread with that kind of nonsense.

So please, spare me the 'you take this too seriously' routine. If you're still in discussion with me *at all* after this much time, you've forfeited the claim.

 

> Both positive and negative, every now and then like any red blooded

> American I like to throw my two cents into the mix.

 

When your 'two cents' adds up to very little aside from unflattering personal sneers about how superior you are, temperamentally, to people who take things 'too seriously' -- such as, oh, the vast majority of your recent post -- it ain't worth two cents.

Actually they are only in reference to yourself, Chuckg, the vast majority seems to be fine with discussion and not so much vitriolic personal attacks, but then again the written word without voice is prone to outrageous forms of interpretation, and if you think I am coming off as superior I apologize that was not my intent.

I am by nature a casual fan, my tastes change quickly, and for the most part any media I see as they apply to gaming, I use as source material, because it gives me ideas. That is why I follow the discussion and post, becuase this thread sparks ideas for me, for my own game.

[snip]

> By the way, I have a question. Is the Authority, Ultimates, Justice League:

> Elite a trend that you want to see, or do many people here on these

> threads yearn for a more holistic, Silver Age feel where no one kills, and

> well things are much more cleaner?

 

Make mine silver, please. Or at the very least, stainless steel.

Not too surprising, myself I am all about story like Rene, I enjoy the good story. I think I can get into too much of the older Silver Age stuff because the art does nothing for me, sadly, I was raised on Image, X-Titles and mang, so my preference for art is more or less the modern, computer colored style.

Which colors my choice of comics, hard habit to break, if the art in my eyes sucks I won't read it, comics by its nature is a visual form of storytelling. So I guess age does not matter to me, the artwork and story prevail for me...

Maybe I am shallow, but I am honest

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

Justify? No.

 

Explain? It might help.

 

I can't understand somebody who says 'oh, no, I don't take this seriously' -- and then proceeds to spend his valuable time debating me on something that I *am* taking seriously. Dude, if you ain't serious, then go pop in a DVD or get a beer or sniff some roses or do something that you *enjoy*, rather than hang around debating with cranky serious fans, all right?

I think you like picking fights.

... of course' date=' if you *enjoy* sticking around in threads to disrupt the proceedings when other people are trying to be serious and you couldn't give a damn... well, there's a word for that, too.[/quote']

 

Oh please, lets not resort to name calling, I enjoy the thread because it has information I enjoy reading about. Both positive and negative, every now and then like any red blooded American I like to throw my two cents into the mix. I have not read Authority, yet, but I will, mainly because of this thread.

 

I may not take my Entertainment to the serious level you seem to dwell in, but I enjoy discussion on the subject just the same. My passion is thankfully not your passion, but I enjoy the discussion nonetheless.

 

Now if it is alright with you, which I am sure it is not, I would like to continue lurking, and posting on this or any other subject I enjoy. Even if I don't go home and stab my Millar voodoo doll in the face while cursing the existence of the Authority...

 

By the way, I have a question. Is the Authority, Ultimates, Justice League: Elite a trend that you want to see, or do many people here on these threads yearn for a more holistic, Silver Age feel where no one kills, and well things are much more cleaner?

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

[snip]

> I don’t take any medium seriously, [snip]

 

Then why are you talking to *us*?

I don't think I need to justify why I am talking to anyone

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

> Who cares it is a comic...

 

OK, let me yet again re-iterate why I hate this phrase.

 

It's because "it is a comic" is another way of pronouncing "it is only a comic"

 

As if comics were some inherently lesser form of literature, that *have* to settle for lame schlocky plot because they can never, ever, ever hope to be anything *good*.

 

I do not agree with this philosophy or any philosophy remotely akin to it. I do not believe that comics must forever be second-class citizens in the realm of storytelling. To steal an election year phrase, I will not surrender to the soft bigotry of low expectations.

It is only a comic, but I love comics, I love the medium, especially the artwork. What I mean by it is only, or just a comic is that, there are some strong feelings here like this comic has insulted your momma, or Millar came and pissed in your yard. The venom thrown around is a little disconcerting but being the internet I am used to it, fans of all strips have their likes and dislikes and I agree with that.

But it is only a comic.

Just like Dune is only a book.

Just like Aliens is only a movie.

I don’t take any medium seriously, it is entertainment, and it is nice source material for a game, I except it for what it is. I enjoy it, abut I understand it isn’t perfect, but it is entertaining. Nit-picking the space craft is just, I don’t know tedious. My thing, if it is cool roll with it.

The ship to me sounds cool; I think for a hardcore over the top uber team it just the kind of ride to keep things interesting. It just sounds cool to me, and I was not raised on the Silver Age, so the Iron Age, Steel Age… Dark Black gut them Age is all I have and I love it.

So yes it is just a comic, but so what, I like comics. I just know anything I enjoy it is just that, a form of enjoyment, and a hobby I like to enjoy. I guess I don’t look to deep because I view everything I read as potential source material for my gaming.

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

You can't put the entire population of Africa inside of Cerebro' date=' either. Nor can you pull nigh-infinite wealth and material resources out of it like it was a city-sized Horn Of Plenty, either.[/quote']

Who cares it is a comic...

 

You people hate it or love it but either way I think Millar and Ellis set out to do what they intended make Authority famous or infamous...

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

Authority will be mine oh soon it sounds so kick ass... and no this is not sarcasm...

Re: The Authority:What the heck?

A 25 mile long space ship that flies between universes' date=' is powered by a singularity, with incredibly luxiourous quarters and the ability to teleport you anywhere in the Solar System? Just a bit over the top for my tastes. Just because its been done before doesn't make it any less corny.[/quote']

I want the keys to that

Re: Ultimate vs The Authority

Yeah I agree check out Ultimates... having read it, you might enjoy it...

I adore its grittier style...

Re: "Super" Cities- How many is too many?

My own campaign city... a rough quick sketch...

Mudaba Adin: Jewel of the Sahara Jungle

Brief History: Mudaba Adin is one of the most advanced cities in the world, in the country of Eritrea. Although it has its humble beginnings as a fishing town, the early years of the terraforming of the Sahara Desert had its start in this city where the group of United Nations funded scientists and UNETF elites began their grand experiment which was a monumental success completely reshaping the region.

Over the seven years of the project money from all across the world was poured into the region and the city in particular. Particularly Vanguard Secure Computing (VSC) and McKain Enterprises poured large amounts of money into recreating the city into a cosmopolitan tomorrow land of splendor. By 2011 the city was the shining bacon of light in the New Africa. Eritrea was a democratic nation although small, an economic powerhouse and soon to be seat of the United Nations with the loss of the New York City headquarters.

In 2013 The United Nations began construction of the second Elite Institute outside the city limits, which also is the headquarters of Legacy. Downtown Mudaba Adin is dominated by the looming edifice of VSC Tower, a mountain of a structure housing several subsidiaries and offices of the world spanning conglomerate.

By late 2014 the city was a foremost location in world tourism, business and culture. Mudaba Adin is a clean city wit all the latest marvels that both baseline and elite can provide. Needless to say the country of Eritrea and Mudaba Adin both think very highly of the United Nations and the UNETF specifically. The city is very elite friendly and has many businesses that cater to elite needs and clientele specifically.

Notable Locations

• Vanguard Secure Computing Tower: The largest structure in the downtown district of Mudaba Adin. VSC Tower is nearly a city unto itself, with much of the staff living on site in the mountain like structure. The structure is a constant sight in the Mudaba Adin skyline and several subsidiary offices are located inside the VSC Tower which has the security of a military installation.

• Valiant Shopping Center: A center of commerce and capitalism, the Valiant Shopping Center has well over six hundred stores and four different levels for just about anything one could desire. It is clean contemporary and very high tech. There are other shopping centers this one is easily the best one, and also the site of many misadventures for a certain group of young elites.

• Mudabo Park & Preserve: This is a massive 18 mile plot of land with trails, large fields, and many beautiful sites of nature. This is a popular place to relax and go for recreation. Several football fields are set up, along with an outdoor amphitheatre. Pets are allowed inside the park as well, in certain areas.

• BioGen Restricted Preserve: These preserve houses dangerous creatures created by the scientists of BioGen and are fenced off. Inside the preserve are actual genetic clones of dinosaurs, new species, and anything else the boys at BioGen can cook up with the realms of the United Nations Scientific Advancement Committee (UNSAC).

• Mudaba Adin Elite Institute: This 25 mile complex is nestled outside the city, and is a highly advanced research, training center, and school for young elites who need proper guidance and a chance to use their powers without hurting others. Run by Dr. Bashar Hudabo a world renowned elite geneticist and philanthropist, the school is also the Headquarters for Legacy, the roving ground for young elites who may one day carry on the banner for the Justice Elite.

• Justice Elite Charlie (JEC) Tower: The official headquarters for the newest UNJE team. It is a fortified tower though from all appearances to be a normal skyscraper with the UNJE insignia emblazoned upon it. The structure houses the support personnel for JEC, and their equipment and vehicles.

• Mudaba Lake and Green Snake River: The major waterway passes through Mudaba Adin from the Red Sea into the Saharan Jungle. Mudaba Lake is a large lake nestled just north of the city, and is a popular spot for those that seek a secluded place to relax and want to avoid the crowded beaches.

Re: Ultimate vs The Authority

From reading around a bit on here the two big names I see coming up with this Iron Age thing are Ultimates and The Authority. Could I get a comparison between the two? How are they alike and how are the different? I'm a fan of traditional comic (not sure what "Age" it would be) which I would I be more likely to enjoy?

Define "Traditional Comic"...

Re: Just to get this thread back on track ...

Good pieces Ian I like them immensely

Re: Superhero Images

Cool ... the relunch was quite nice I would also suggest looking at The Judas Contract and The Terror of Trigon' date=' both out in TPB and drawn by George Perez .. great stuff In fact, it's one of his pics of Terra that inspired the pose that I used [/quote']

I will keep an eye out for them buddy!

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

Really. We always had fun with that one. I think our GM was always careful not to let it get out of hand. I can't remeber getting really trashed by another player in one of those meeting scenarios. He would let it go on for just a few phases or so before distracting us. I remember other games where people wouldn't be interested in doing that part. They just wanted to get to the adventure.

 

That brings another one to mind, though: m ind controlled PCs fighting other PCs. Players hate to be manipulated, so mind control plots are hard to pull off.

This is an issue I am facing right now... very sticky... especially when players get reluctant to beat the crap out of each other bcause they are mind controlled...

Re: Supervillain Images

that is a sick image