Fearghus

Re: Stuffed Animal

One of my players, is trying to build a character, that when the character stays still he looks like a stuffed animal. He's a moogle! When he's active there is no advantage in play, but when he stays still and takes no action (cant talk either), he looks like a stuffed animal. This has certain advantages. But at the same time, if a villain is familiar with him, it wont fool the villain.

 

How should this be built? My best guess right now is a limited form of shape shift.

 

Dean

Images, Mental Illusion, Invisibility, Shapeshift... there are lots of options here. I would probably start with images if I were building this. (I don't have 6th ed yet so if any of these powers have changed I'm sorry if I am being misleading.)

Re: Astral Body 5th Ed

EDIT: That is' date=' assuming the Desolidified character is the main character.[/quote']

 

Yes the character would be spending most of an adventure in a desolidified state. I do rather like the idea of building the desolidified body as the main body and then making the physical body a physical manifestation of his powers. I think this is what I love about Hero is that you sometimes have to work things backwards to a make them work correctly.

OK I know there is an example in the 5th Edition book about this power. My question is more about the duplicate itself, not specifically the power that creates duplicates.

First let me tell you the concept this player has...

The Player wants to have a psychic character that doesn't actually go in person on the missions he kind of follows the group with his mental powers, and helps them out with mental powers.

At first I was going to just apply mega scale to clairsentience so he could follow the group and use clairsentience to scout for them and things, and use Mind Link so he could communicate with them. BUT the player wants to use his powers to aid the group in ways other than looking around. The LOS rules for mental powers pretty much require that the character be there to use his powers against targets. So... I started thinking duplicate on a body that has desloidification and inviability always on.

The problem I am thinking of is that I this characters duplication doesn't need physical characteristics. But in 5th ed... a character with a 1 on Str, and Con basically has to spend boat loads of points on extra End, Rec, Stun...

So finally here is the question... Do you think it would be unbalancing to create an advantage, talent, perk or whatever to base this characters calculated characteristics off of their mental characteristics?

This is an excellent argument for no longer having calculated characteristics. In 6th Ed the character could tank his physical characteristics without nerfing himself.

Re: the meter and the hex (stretching)

Hmmm... that makes me wonder: do you think Hero dropping the hex might cause Chessex and the like to stop making them' date=' concentrating on the grids used in D&D? What else uses a hex battlemat? GURPS? IIRC, GURPS used 1m hexes (two or three revs ago, when I last paid it any attention). There must be some 1/2" or 1cm battlemats out there you could use, if you don't already have 1" ones and lots of cardboard heros and the like, and you didn't want to divide by 2...[/quote']

 

I have always used my 1" hex map for D&D, GURPS, HERO... it matters not what the size of the hex is only what it represents. In D&D the hex is 5' in GURPS it is 3' (1 yard) in hero 5th Ed it represented 2m, now when I play Hero 6th it will be 1m. No dividing by 2... no conversion necessary. I think 25mm minis work better at the 1" = 1m scale anyway since in hero 5th two characters can occupy the same hex and piling multiple figs in one hex is pretty tough when the base barely fits in the hex to begin with.

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

In a heroic setting' date=' would the characters ever use the powers chapters? Or, does the GM use that chapter to primarily create the various tools and gear for the setting. In a heroic setting, it would seem that most powers are used to represent equipment, gear, and the setting's technology versus any inherent powers in a character?[/quote']

 

Depends on the campaign and the GM really. It would be impossible to run a heroic fantasy game with out building spells and magical equipment for example. Powers can also be use to simulate various martial arts or similar abilities. I don't think I have personally ever been in a game where we didn't use powers for at least building gear.

Re: Power that does less damage the larger the area

Wow... there are alot of awesome suggestions in here. I am really liking the Auto fire AOE option personally. I was planning on adding NND to this power anyway, so it works out well.

Re: Math

My playeds used to complain about math all the time too. then I pointed out some of the math they have to do for D&D. They've been pretty quiet ever since.

OK I have a player that wants to create a power that is a little tricky and I am not sure how to do it. We are playing 5ER just for reference, though I would be interested in hearing 6E options as well.

Basically the power concept is that the character can summon a swarm of bees. The swarm is a specific size (as in number of bees) that remains the same. My first thought was that I would simply create a summon and build the swarm as a character with desolidify and a damage shield with the effects physical world advantage on it. this would give the power the mobility (which the player wanted out of the power), and make it constant.

Well the player was thinking it would be an energy blast with an AOE. Here's where the snag comes in. He wants to be able to concentrate or spread out the damage based on how large the AOE is. So if the AOE is one hex it can do massive damage to anyone in that hex or he can spread it out over 40-50 hexes and annoy or drive off a bunch of normals with out any risk of doing substantial harm to them.

Any thoughts?

Re: Faith, Courage and Humble Obedience

Having a high ego or a high presence has nothing at all to do with faith

A pious person can be weak willed and uncharismatic

An atheist can be determined and charming

I am pretty sure I know several atheists that if made into hero character would have both a high ego and presence, and I know lots of pious people who if made into hero characters would have low ego and presence. So if a faith roll is required I like the idea of making it it's own stat

Re: Rare Triggers

So - what do people think about putting a limitation on powers that are triggered by rare events?

I might as a game master make the Trigger a cheaper advantage or something for rare triggers.

This situation reminds me of a character that a friend of mine played. The power was basically regeneration but it only took effect after the character actually died. Otherwise he just healed normally. What this allowed the player to do was be a reckless as he wanted and even if he died oh well. no skin off his nose. But the number of times the character actually died in the game was surprisingly low.

Re: A way to fend off attackers

This would be my offering for the damage part of the ability:

 

Spear Whirl: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6 w/STR), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1 - anyone approaching within the reach of the weapon) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Lockout (Can not use weapon for anything else; -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Cannot move whilst using Spear Whirl; -1/2) 30 Active 10 Real 3 END.

As usual an excellent build Sean. I like the trigger option better than my AOE as well.

Re: A way to fend off attackers

I have not read all the other responses yet. I like the idea of a presence attack, but I think that you really want this to cause damage IF they come within melee range. so I immediately thought of a HKA attack Constant with a 1" Radius and personal immunity or hole in the middle.(I don't have 6E yet so if the terms change and I got them wrong I'm sorry.)

Basically just an attack that says... "Come at me at your own peril" If they stand clear of the attack they are fine if then enter they take damage.

OK so I have been following a couple threads and I know the gripes my gaming group has about ALL THE MATH in hero system. Am I the only one that doesn't see where all this complicated math is? OK fine it requires you to multiply and divide by fractions, but those fractions are all VERY EASILY converted to decimal so you can do it on a calculator if your really too lazy to multiply by 2.25 in your head. Which is about the most complicated math function I have seen in the book. it's mostly simple addition and subtraction.

Just my thoughts.

Re: Ranged attacks while engaged in melee

There's more than one genre of fantasy' date=' which means there is more than one reality distortion level. If you're running a gritty or adventurous fantasy game you're probably right. I would halve their native DCV and allow no defensive levels. This all assumes you're shooting for verisimilitude - a sense of real. If, however, you're running a cinematic fantasy game then its entirely appropriate to have archers firing point blank into melee with little, if any, penalties. In that genre archers pull that kind of stunt off all the time. Its a question of what you are trying to simulate.[/quote']

 

Agreed... Legolas in the LOTR movies didn't seem to have any problem using his bow in very tight melee combats. This all comes down to GM call and how realistic or cinematic he wants combat to be. I see no reason why the combat system should have to simulate reality. We live in reality every day. The game is about fantasy.

Re: Ranged attacks while engaged in melee

Well I agree with what previous posters have said. The short answer to you question is...

You are correct according to a strict interpretation of the rules there is NO PENALTY for using a ranged attack to attack someone you are in HtH with. At least not that I know of.

The long answer...

First... there are no attacks of opportunity in Hero System. That game mechanic is basically a creation of the warped minds at Wizards of the Coast (sorry... for some reason saying that name seem to have left a sour taste in my mouth). D&D uses complicated game mechanics and to use the magic term interrupts that make combat very involved. Hero intentionally tries to make combat more streamlined.

Second... The main difference between ranged attacks and HtH attacks is exactly that RANGE. You are free to use ranged attacks against targets within your hex if you like. the system makes no distinction. Unless the attack has restrainable or some other similar limitation applied to it you are free to use it on any target in range including someone standing right in front of you.

Your question approaches this like it's a problem. You have equal chance of avoiding the attack whether it is a ranged attack or a hand to hand attack. Why should you get the chance to prevent a guy with a bow from shooting you but not a chance to prevent a guy with a sword from slashing you. My advice would be to stop thinking of Hero like it's D&D. It uses different mechanics, and therefore will not play the same.

None of this is meant to say that GMs are not free to create their own house rules for these situations. Perfect example of something that you're game master might think of is allowing defenses against these attack that can not normally be applied to ranged attacks. If a character has CSLs that apply only to HtH combat let them apply to these attacks. or let the attacks be blocked using the block maneuver things like that but that is all GM call.

I hope this helps.

Re: Why are Limited Defenses so costly?

I fail to see any problems.

 

A value had to be chosen for the books. Consider it mostly arbitrary.

Agreed. Limitations for this kind of thing need to be picked based on how common certain types of attacks are in that particular campaign. If I am running a fantasy game where magic is a rare and wondrous thing and energy attacks are not all that common "Only against Energy Beams" or some other similar limitation would be worth MUCH MORE than -1/2 because the type of attack it protects against is so rare, on the other hand in your typical 4 color comic campaign where everyone, their brother, sister, mother, and pet dog can shoot lasers from their eyes it might be worth LESS than -1/2. So set the value where you think it is right for your game.

Re: Please help me make a Swarm Power

I'd normally do it as a form of Desolidification with Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects and usually area-affecting attacks that still harm the character (which might include some spread energy blasts in addition to Area of Effect attacks and the like).

 

You might want Affects Physical World (+2) on some of the character's Strength and/or an attack power or two.

I agree. I created a villain similar to the demon that attacked Constantine in the movie that was essentially made out of bugs. He had it built as desolidification. It worked really well but giving him any kind of attack was ridiculously expensive because of the effects solid advantage I had to put on everything though.

Re: A Storeowner's First Impression

The rules have achieved a point where in order to be able to adapt to every situation they adapt to none because there is far too much GM decision implied.

I have often thought that for new players Hero should distill the rules down to a sort of Hero Lite. The problem is the Powers toolkit IS the hero system. and that is where the complexity comes in, so I have never been able to think of a way of trimming down the complexity of the game in a way that would not rob the game of what makes it a great system.

Re: Blasts that leak power out the sides.

Buy it as two linked energy blasts... the first with AOE: Line the second with AOE: Cone

Re: A Storeowner's First Impression

This isn't really a fair comparison' date=' as you're throwing the Monster Manual into the D&D pool but not the Bestiary in for HERO. So it's $70 for D&D PHB & DMG, as compared to $80 for 6E1 & 6E2 (before anyone cries foul, the $80 is an assumption that the books are purchased in a brick and mortar store since this thread was started from that viewpoint, and I'm assuming you don't get the bundle price in a B&M store, you can get them for only $70 online or $80 with the PDFs thrown in as well, which is a great deal:thumbup:).[/quote']

 

Well you sort of have a point. I can't imagine being able to play D&D with out the Monster Manual, but you can play hero with out even knowing the Beastiary exists. Also... if you are going to make that argument then you really only need one copy of 6E2 at the table so only the GM has to buy that book since 6E1 gives you all the info you need to create your character. That's all nit picking though...

 

No matter what your argument is my point is still that the cost isn't really an issue. $35 compared to $40... 2 books compared to 3 books... If you want to play your going to spend the money. People are going to buy what they like and money isn't going to make a significant difference unless the price points are vastly different. Since we're talking about a cost difference of $5 per book I doubt it will matter.

Re: A Storeowner's First Impression

Well having only seen the PDF of the cover art I would have to agree. I have never really liked the whole minimalist approach to cover art.

But all that aside I can also say that I personally have NEVER bought a book based on the cover art. I buy gaming books because my friends are playing or interested in playing the game. I am planning on buying Hero System 6th but probably not until I am ready to switch my game to the new rules, but then... I am an existing player.

As for the price... I don't see what the big deal is. D&D base books are $35 each and you have to buy 3 of them for a total of $105... Hero System is a bargain comparatively at $25 cheaper for the core rules. Even if you are comparing the two book to book... $5 more for a Hero Book! Oooooo! That's gonna break the bank!

As for the size... If it daunts some people I can certainly understand that, but it is the price of the versatility the system offers.

Re: Movement Multipowers

I have not read all the responses yet, but I have read enough that I think the consensus is that most people don't have a problem with it.

IMHO Movement powers in a multi power aren't really any more of a problem than any other power in a multi-power. Granted if you have Flight, Running and Swimming all in the same multi-power it's not like you are going to use those together so you are sort of gaming the system, but that is kind of what a multi-power does anyway.

On the flip side of that if you put a movement power in a multi-power that has attack powers in... you can't use your attack because you moved? I call that a serious disadvantage, and probably worth more than the points you save from Multi-power.

In the end every build needs to be scrutinized for abuse. I allow non-combat multi powers simply because it makes sense in some cases. Others it's Min-Maxing, and I don't allow it. You have to look at each situation individually.

Re: Get away from me.

I may be way out of line here, but what is wrong with simply building it as an attack using, you know, 'Blast', or TK? They are both specifically powers that allow you to move someone through impact or the application of force.

 

I mean, the concept is a shock wave. Why make it more complicated? I appreciate that 'Does KB' exists in the system, but surely we start with the concept and get the best fit for that, rather than simply approaching it from the standpoint of what the most combat efficient build is then retrofitting it to the concept? Touch flash and SPD suppress and such are not screaming 'shock wave' to me: why should people go numb (and not, for instance, deaf?)? Why should they slow down? What is the actual mechanism at work here? Why use a concept you are going to have to house rule around to make it fit?

I think they are trying to get around my original stated concept of not doing damage accept for knock back. I am enjoying the variety of ways around it actually. You are right though. a normal EB would be more strait forward, but a flash doesn't actually do any real damage and seems to work well for the build. Especially since I intended this to be a sort of get out of Dodge sort of power. It's only real function is to facilitate escape.

I had this concept for a power I wanted to add to a character but I am not certain what is the most effective way of building it.

The concept for the power is simple. If the character ever found himself surrounded and overwhelmed he could emit some sort of shock wave that would throw anyone near him away from him. Ideally this would do no damage (accept the damage taken from knockback)

I originally thought there was a limitation Only to do knockback but could not find that in the base book. I do not own any of the Ultimate _____ books so a limitation might be in one of them, but I was was thinking someone else might be able to put their hands on it if it exists.

So I am thinking build the power as Energy Blast, Radius or Explosion (I think explosion fits the concept better), Double knockback, no range, Only to do knockback (If it exists)

Re: OMCV Whats it good for (besides Mental Powers)

For my two cents I consider this like a disadvantage that is not a disadvantage... It's worth NOTHIN! So you'd be welcome to take you're OMCV down to -1,000,000,000 if you wanted... Your still not gonna get any points for it simply because it does not hinder you... not even a little.

However... If it you did have mental powers and bought down you OMCV you would get points for it because now it is a limitation.

I realize that this is probably not in the rules anywhere, but it seems like a house rule that is well within the spirit of the game. You only get or spend points on things that effect game play.