Magic Skills and Spell Penalties

[Brett]

One thing that has kind of confused me is the comparison of magic skill levels compared to skill levels of ordinary skills.

 

Due to the casting penalties imposed by more powerful skills, spell casters need high skill levels or bonuses to have even a 50% chance of success. The sample spell caster Valerius the Harper in Fantasy Hero has a Fire Magic skill of 15- and +2 Skill levels with Magic Skill Rolls. He also has a magic items that give him a +3 with Fire Magic Spells.

 

On the other hand, the sidebar next to the entry on Elvenholme in the Turakian Age describes the worlds finest and most sought after treesmith (I am not even going to try Steve's Elven name for this) who has a Professional Skill of 16-. I would think that this great Elven artist who is probably several centuries old would have a higher skill than this since may young wizards need magic skills this high to be able to cast spells.

 

Would it be appropriate for spell casters to purchase 3 point skill levels to counter the active point penalty from powerful spells? I have not seen this used, but it would be more economical than buying 5 point levels for spell skill rolls.

 

Brett

[Nevenall]

Re: Magic Skills and Spell Penalties

 

In my magic system I use the -1 per 20 active points so that the magic skills are closer to the same level as other skills.

[Briguy123]

Re: Magic Skills and Spell Penalties

 

I use -1 per 3 real point cost.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Magic Skills and Spell Penalties

 

Would it be appropriate for spell casters to purchase 3 point skill levels to counter the active point penalty from powerful spells? I have not seen this used' date=' but it would be more economical than buying 5 point levels for spell skill rolls.[/quote']

I sometimes allow characters to buy Penalty Skill Levels to offset the active point penalty of spells. This saves points and isn't as powerful as regular skill levels would be.

 

Example:

Valerius has a 15- Magic Skill and +5 Levels with his Magic rolls. When casting a 30 AP spell, he needs 17-. When casting a 50 AP spell, he needs 15-. When casting a 30 AP spell in a difficult circumstance with a -2 penalty, he needs 15-.

Valerium has a 15- Magic Skill and +5 PSLs to offset the AP penalty of the spells. When casting a 30 AP spell, he needs 15-. When casting a 50 AP spell, he needs 15-. When casting a 30 AP spell in a difficult circumstance with a -2 penalty, he needs 13-.

 

Also, you can't necessarily equate different skills' levels to each other, especially a 3/2 skill like Power (Magic), to a 2/1 Background Skill like PS. Even background skills of the same type don't necessarily compare in "real-world-feel" terms. 20- PS: Brain Surgeon is impressive; 20- PS: Burger Flipper, not so much.

[Outsider]

Re: Magic Skills and Spell Penalties

 

I never liked the idea that a 16- was 'world class' in a skill, considering that 16- only takes 13 points, even for a 3/2 skill.

 

My rule of thumb for skill rolls was :

 

8- Familiarity

11- Apprentice (make by 0 avg with compliment)

14- Journeyman (make by 5 avg with compliment)

18 - Master (make by 10 avg with compliment)

21- High Master (make by 15 avg with compliment)

24- Grand Master (make by 20 avg with compliment)

27- Legendary Master (make by 25 avg with compliment)

 

Then I very often allow complimentary rolls for having a properly equipped "lab", THEN I apply difficulty mods on almost every skill roll attempt.

 

For example : In armoring :

-0 mod : Basic metal shaping (ie, drawing wire, forming sheets or rings, etc)

-5 mod : Intermediate Metal shaping/Basic Armor making (Preparing the ends of rings to receive rivets, proper riveting, shaping sheet metal, fitting rings to form chain armor that is well fit, etc)

-10 mod : Advanced metal shaping and armor making (designing and fitting plate armor properly, Forming sheet metal finely enough to allow fully articulated armors, doing fluting (Maximilian style) properly, etc)

 

Additional mods :

-5 or more mod : Working with an unfamiliar material (such as an armorer who has only ever worked with steel trying to work with dragon scales, or mithril.

+5 mod : Doing repairs or minor modifications only

-0 mod : Major modifications (it is as hard as making it anew, though usually far faster)

-5 or more mod : Adding bonus effects to the armor (ie reducing effective encumbrance, increasing DEF, making it especially frightening (+1d6 PRE attack), or one of many other smallish effects)

 

In order to buy up a skill, one had to actually attempt things that were difficult, too. One could not justify buying up his armoring skill to the Journeyman level if all he ever attempted was apprentice work.

 

Under this system, a master of a trade has to have spent at least 17 points, and he is, by no means, "world class", just respectable.

 

I toyed with the idea of making any skills that took a skill over 14- cost double, which would then make mastery cost 25 points. I also toyed with the idea of making skill levels beyond mastery redouble in cost for every "rank name" (3 levels, about) which would make high mastery = 37 points, Grand Mastery 61 points, and Legendary mastery 109 points. The idea was that someone who was truly "world class" in a skill was the equivalent of a Hero. I even toyed with the idea of redoubling the cost again, if the skill was to be learned without the benefit of an instructor who had at least 3 more levels than the pupil

 

PS. Phil is right, skills dont necessarily equate. Some are a lot more impressive because they are rare. I would argue that one could never find a 20- burger flipper, though, as what that person is really learning is PS Chef, and never gets to try anything more difficult than familiarity level tasks (thus his skill never goes up past familiarity) Depending on how well developed field is, though, 16- might be as good as anyone is at it, too.