Please Critique My First Ever Build

[SableWyvern]

So, this is my first trial run building a HERO character. This is actually an alternate dragon form for a Multiform character. The Multiform is 55 + 5 for an extra alternate, so I had 275 + 75 disads (+25 in non-benefiting disads, since the base character will be built on 250) to play with.

 

The campaign has a tentative 60 Active Point limit. I am also using Normal Characteristic Maximas, but decided they don't apply to dragons.

 

I originally wanted to use the Huge template, but ended up with a slightly stripped down Enormous, thanks to the points constaints.

 

Anyway, any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

Strength: 40 (30 points)

Dexterity: 18 (24 points)

Constitution: 15 (10 points)

Body: 28 (36 points)

Intelligence: 18 (8 points)

Ego: 18 (16 points)

Presence: 23 (13 points)

Comeliness: 10 (0 points)

 

Points on Primary Characteristics = 137

 

 

Physical Defence: 18, Resistant 10, Hardened (x1). (21 points)

Energy Defence: 13, Resistant 8 (14 points)

Speed: 3 (2 points)

Recovery: 11 (0 points)

Endurance: 30 (0 points)

Stun: 56 (0 points)

 

Points on Derived Characteristics: 37

 

Running: 12" (12 points)

Swimming: 2" (0 points)

Leaping: 8" (0 points)*

Flying: 14" (useable as gliding) (35 points)

 

Points on Movement: 47

 

*This is based on the Strength table. I'm not sure how this is meant to interact with the standard base 2" Leap.

 

FIREBREATH

Ranged Killing Attack, 1 1/2d6 Damage (Base Cost 25 points)

Advantage: Area of Effect (10" Cone, +1 1/4) (Active Cost 56 points)

Limitation: No Range (-1/4)

Limitation: Charges (8, Boostable, -1/4)

Limitation: Costs End (-1/2)

Limitation: Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/4)

 

Real Cost: 22 points.

 

BITE

HTH Killing Attack 3d6 (9 Damage Classes) (Base, Active and Real Cost: 45 points)

 

CLAW

HTH Killing Attack 2d6 (6 Damage Classes) (Base, Active and Real Cost: 30 points)

 

 

Other Abilities

Discriminatory Scent (5 points)

 

Combat Sense (as sense, out of combat) (17 points)

 

3 Point Combat Skill Level (Natural HTH Attacks) (3 points)

 

2 x 2 Point Combat Skill Level (Bite) (4 points)

 

 

Disadvantages

Enormous (frequently, greatly impairing) -15

 

Distinctive Feature: Dragon (not concealable, extreme reaction, obvious) -25

 

Hunted: Dragon slayers and arcane ingredient collectors (as powerful as PC, non-combat influence, occasionally, seek to kill) -15

 

Enraged: When treated with scorn or taunted (uncommon, chance 11-, recover 14-) -10

 

Psychological Limitation: Easily Flattered (uncommon, strong) -10

 

Psychological Limitation: Vengeful (uncommon, strong) -10

 

Psychological Limitation: Solves problems with violence and intimidation (common, moderate) -10

 

Physical Limitation: Heavy sleeper (infrequently, slightly) -5

 

Total Points Spent: 350

Total Standard Limitations: 75

Extra Limitations (not compensated): 25

[Sean Waters]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Well, if that CON figure is right and given your levels of defence, you'll be real easy to stun...

 

Your bite is a MASSIVE attack for a character of this level: 17DCs, or 5 1/2d6 killing with strength.

 

Speed is low, but that depends ont he rest of the campaign, DEX is quite high if he is an enorous creature - but you have not bought, for instance, stretching, to simulate that.

 

I fear he may be quite deadly but with a glass jaw. The firebreath, claw and bite could probably go in a multipower to save some points, unless you plan on doing a lot of MPAs.

 

The overall build is not bad, but with an 18 INT I'd expect a few skills - he is not just a mindless beasty.

 

Sorry if I'm coming over a bit negative: I think the bones are right, but a little more thought as to the flesh is needed.

 

The disadvantages are good and definitely have that dragon feel to them. I make him 347 points: is that right?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

You could do THIS with characteristics:

 

Strength	40	30
Dexterity	18	24
Constitution	23	26
Body       	20	20
Intelligence	18	8
Ego        	18	16
Presence	25	15
Comeliness	0	-5

PD          	20	12
ED          	20	15
Speed     	4	12
Recovery	13	0
Endurance	46	0
Stun       	52	0

 

and this with powers:

 

Cost	Description of power, skill, perk or talent				
56	Attack MP				
2	Firebreath				
4	Claw and tooth 3d6 HKA				
0					
7	Skills				
22	Senses				
0					
20	Fully resistant defences				
15	Hardened defences				
0					
47	Movement				

 

For 346.

 

Still doesn't have stretching though...note that's fully resistant hardened defences on 20 pd and ed, and you can take a much harder hit now without being stunned.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Negativity is most welcome, especially when it's constructive (which yours certainly was). I'm not surprised to find serious problems in the build. I put the dragon together for two main reasons -- first, to get a feel for the process of designing (irrespective of the final usefulness of the design), and secondly to learn from the feedback after I posted it.

 

I would have liked to add in some skills, but didn't have the points. I'll have to look into multipowers and see how you got those much cheaper attack values (so far, I haven't touched the more advanced power stuff like frameworks, multipowers and VPPs).

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

I make him 347 points: is that right?

 

It was meant to be 350, but the spreadsheet I was using was all over the place, so there could be some errors in there; or they might have crept in when I transferred it to text.

 

DEX is quite high if he is an enorous creature - but you have not bought, for instance, stretching, to simulate that.

 

I felt compelled to keep the dex high for the purposes of getting a decent OCV, although from your comment that may not be as neccessary as I'd imagined. I originally included stretching as per the template, but cut it out for points, although only after reading that stretching was more representative of humanoid forms. I'd certainly add some back in if I can scrounge up the points.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Here's the spreadsheet I use - very basic, and homemade, but it works OK - any problems with it post them here or PM me

[Sean Waters]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

I'm not expert, but what I'd do first is write down the things you really can't do without in the build, then build everything else round it. I'd at least find a few points for KS Riddles, AK Mountains and the like.

[Roland]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Yeah, give him a few Everydragon skills! He will need some sort of language. Do dragons have their own language?

 

I think a general PER bonus might be in order.

 

As a fire-breathing dragon, he might have some vulnerability to cold-based attacks (in case the GM thinks 35 points of Psych Lims is too much for one disad category).

 

As to your question about Leaping . . . I recall seeing a rule, probably optional, about decreasing Leaping distance for characters of greater mass or density.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

As to your question about Leaping . . . I recall seeing a rule' date=' probably optional, about decreasing Leaping distance for characters of greater mass or density.[/quote']

If a character's mass is (100kg)x2^N then base Leaping should simply be based upon (Str/5)-N (for positive or negative N). That means Growth and Density Increase should not change Leaping distance at all (neither increasing it due to the modified Str nor decreasing it due to the additional mass/KB Resistence). Shrinking and size-based Physical Limitations, on the other hand, should. That's my intrepretation/house rule, not the way the official system treats it. In fact it may not be dramatically fun for superheros at all.

 

Of course, I've always been in favor of basing Leaping on Running rather than Str, but that's a whole different issue.

 

There are also example Physical Limitations in the Fantasy Hero Bestiary for decreased Leaping. Check them out.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

On the Leaping issue, my confusion actually related to something completely different.

 

On page 33, in the Movement Table, we see that characters start with a 2" Leap that can be increased up to 5" for 1CP per inch.

 

Then, on page 34, in the Strength Table, we see Leap distances based on STR.

 

As best as I can tell, the Leap values in the STR table replace the base leap found in the Movement table, but I'm really not sure.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

On the Leaping issue, my confusion actually related to something completely different.

 

On page 33, in the Movement Table, we see that characters start with a 2" Leap that can be increased up to 5" for 1CP per inch.

 

Then, on page 34, in the Strength Table, we see Leap distances based on STR.

 

As best as I can tell, the Leap values in the STR table replace the base leap found in the Movement table, but I'm really not sure.

That's correct. A character's base Leaping distance is technically Str/5, not 2". At least that's my understanding. I was somewhat annoyed by the contradiction myself. You might take a look at the FAQ and see if it's been answered there. I forget.

[kave99]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

56 Attack MP

2 Firebreath

4 Claw and tooth 3d6 HKA

 

just to clarify for are new Friend, Sean can correct me if i misinterpret.

 

56 pts dragon attack multi power {with no lims on the MP}

2U firebreath {with all Adds and lims that SableWyvern listed}

bass cost 25pts, active 56pts,real 22pts,real points divided by 10= 2.2 rounded down 2pts for the cost of the ultra or fixed slot cost

4U claw and tooth 3d6HTHKA [5 1/2D6 with str]

45pts bass,active,real. 45pts divided by 10= 4.5 rounded down to 4pts for the cost of the ultra or fixed slot cost

 

that a nice MP but it has two thing for you to note.

1 you can't use both the fire attack and the HTHKA at the same time because thay are in a MP with only 56pts in the reserve, if it had 101pts in the reserve you could.

2 you can't use both the claw attack and the tooth attack at the same time because you have placed it as one attack with the SFX of being claw and or tooth.you could also add tail attack to the SFX at no cost increase but you could not do a Multiple-Power Attacks pg358 H5R without a second HTHKA Slot in the MP and increase the reserve {in the first example 2d6HTHKA at 30pts would require 3pts for the slot[ultra] and a extra 19pts for the reserve[56pts+19pts=75pts]

 

PS hope its for fantasy hero

pss nice first build

[SableWyvern]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Thanks for the clarifications, kave. It took me a little while, but once I'd read through the multipower rules, I worked out how Sean had reached his final values, and the consequences thereof. Your summary confirms my conclusions.

 

As a general update, the player in question has probably decided to drop the second alternate form as not particularly suited to his character concept, meaning we'll have another 25 points to play with (and another 25 points of disads to come up with). That should give us room to comfortably create a dragon that is effectively dragonlike in a combat situation, and still have room to fill out the build with a few relevant skills and ancillary abilities. I'm also looking to fill out the multipower with some kind of wing-buffet attack, and maybe a tail-bash doing normal damage.

 

Any advice on how to do a wing attack that affects movement would be appreciated. So far, a movement drain power is the only way I've seen to do this, but that doesn't really emulate what I'm after. Something that incorporates knockback and/or knockdown, without actually doing damage (or maybe a little Stun), would provide what I'm after, although I'm not sure if there's any easy way to simulate that (I'm not planning to use knockback rules in general, but would be happy to apply them in this instance, perhaps with an appropriate advantage).

 

It's also worth pointing out that this build, apart from being a hands-on learning experience for me, is designed as a starting point for the player in question. I'm not trying to build his dragon, but to give him an idea of what a dragon build could look like, and then go from there to co-operatively create something that fits his specific needs.

 

And yes, it's for FH. As I've mentioned elsewhere, my rather ambitions campaign pitch was "Your character has access to some kind of powerful magical power(s) and/or item(s). Come up with a concept, and we'll make it work."

[kave99]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

I'm also looking to fill out the multipower with some kind of wing-buffet attack, and maybe a tail-bash doing normal damage.

 

Any advice on how to do a wing attack that affects movement would be appreciated. So far, a movement drain power is the only way I've seen to do this, but that doesn't really emulate what I'm after. Something that incorporates knockback and/or knockdown, without actually doing damage (or maybe a little Stun), would provide what I'm after, although I'm not sure if there's any easy way to simulate that (I'm not planning to use knockback rules in general, but would be happy to apply them in this instance, perhaps with an appropriate advantage).

 

wing-buffet attack could be a Area Effect Energy Blast

tail-bash doing normal damage could be a HTH Attack and Stretching

 

not to sure what you mean by "wing attack" but hear are a couple of ideas

teleportation Usable as a attack with extra mass and perhaps position shift and no relative velocity

 

Change Environment -1" movement perhaps with Sticky

 

HTH ATTACK with dose knockback / double Knockback

 

 

got to go more to come:D

[SableWyvern]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

I started a seperate thread for the wings (Dragon Wing-Buffet), and have probably settled on AoE Telkinesis. I didn't consider stretching for the tail, but that would make sense.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

Ok, it's time for Mr Dragon Mk II.

 

Strength 40

Dexterity 13

Constitution 23

Body 20

Intelligence 18

Ego 18

Presence 23

Comeliness 0

 

Primary Characteristics Cost: 117

 

 

PD 20/20r Hardened x1

ED 20/20r

Speed 4

Recovery 13

Endurance 46

Stun 52

 

Derived Characteristics Cost: 74

 

Running 12"

Flight (Useable as Gliding) 14"

 

Movement Costs: 47

 

 

MULTIPOWER

Pool: 56

2u Firebreath

4u Tooth and Claw

1u Tail

1u Legsweep

1u Wing-Buffet

 

Firebreath Unchanged from the original version. 56 Active Points, Real Cost 22.

Tooth and Claw HKA 3d6 (Active/Real 45)

Tail HA 2d6 (Active/Real 10)

Legsweep (Active 4/Real 4 or 3)*

Wing-Buffet Telekinesis 16

- Advantage: AoE (6" Cone +1)

- Lim: No Range (-1/4)

- Lim: Extra Time (Full Phase -1/2)

- Lim: Affects Whole Object, Grab and Throw Only (-1/2)

- (Active 48/Real 14)

 

Multipower Cost: 65

 

Other Abilities

Discriminatory Scent

Combat Sense as Sense, Out of Combat

Stretching 2"

Nightvision

Telescopic Sight +2

Track by Scent

Tracking (+1) 14-

Aerial Navigation 13-

Dragon Tongue, Native

Local Tongue, Fluent

Local Tongue, Fluent

Alfarin Tongue, Fluent

Foreign Tongue, Fluent

2 Point CSL, Tooth and Claw

KS: Mountains 11-

KS: Regional History 11-

Deduction 13-

 

Other Stuff Cost: 73

 

Oh, and this version is 300 points, which means another 25 points of limitations will need to be found.

 

*Yes, I'm aware Martial Manoeuvres are meant to be taken to a minimum of 10 points, and I'm disregarding that in this instance. Additionally, the Legsweep won't be useable simultaneously with a tail bash, so it possibly deserves a -1/4 limitation, but that would make no actual difference to anything else in either case.

 

Thanks for the feedback that has got me this far. Any further thoughts?

[kave99]

Re: Please Critique My First Ever Build

 

much better only thing i can say is that legsweep can't be placed in the multipower nor should it have limitations. you could put the stretching in the MP and use the points saved to pay for 4pt legsweep and give you 6 more pts to spend