Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

[LaughingLunatic]

Ok HEROphiles, I got a new build for feedback.

 

I’m trying to simulate the effect of ship weapons from an old video game (“Freelancer”). The interesting part (to me anyway) is that the energy beams worked differently vs. different shields. Something like this:

 

 
                Shield A    Shield B    Shield C    Armor
Energy Weapon A  X           X + y%      X – y%      X
Energy Weapon B  X + y%      X – y%      X           X
Energy Weapon C  X – y%      X           X + y%      X

 

I’ve come up with two ways of modeling this behavior in HERO… but I’m not entirely happy with either one and would like some input from the assembled masses. I'd prefer to place the burden on the attacker to identify which damage to apply as opposed to making the defender figure out what he/she is being hit with and how it impacts their DEF. That being said... I'm open to considering a defense based effect as well...

 

Build #1 – An EB plus ‘naked,’ limited, advantages and disadvantages

 

4d6 EB Weapon A (20 Active pts)

Plus Armor Piercing (only vs. FF type (10 Active; 7 real)

Plus Reduced Penetration (only vs. FF type C) (-5 Active; -3 real)

Total Cost 24 points

 

This build would do the following:

4d6 against the full DEF of a type A FF or Armor

4d6 against the half DEF of a type B FF

2d6, twice, against the full DEF of a type C FF

 

 

Build #2 – An EB plus limited extra dice

 

3d6 EB Weapon A (15 Active pts)

Plus 1d6 EB; Only vs. FF type B (-1/2) (5 Active; 3 real)

Plus 1d6 EB; Not vs. FF type C (-1) (5 Active; 2 real)

Total Cost 20 points

 

This build would do the following:

4d6 against the full DEF of a type A FF or Armor

5d6 against the full DEF of a type B FF

3d6 against the full DEF of a type C FF

 

 

So… What do you think?

[ajackson]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

I think this sounds like different special effects and the targets have limited defense (or vulnerability) against certain special effects.

[Hierax]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

Give each of either the 3 different weapons or 3 different shields a 3 part build with a -2 Limitation on each part so that the total of all 3 parts is the same as buying one part -- I know it breaks the usual Hero Limitation "logic" but it works out better.

 

Weapon n

- Damage only vs. Shield Type A (-2)

- Damage only vs. Shield Type B (-2)

- Damage only vs. Shield Type C (-2)

 

or

 

Shield n

 

- Defence only vs. Weapon Type A (-2)

- Defence only vs. Weapon Type B (-2)

- Defence only vs. Weapon Type C (-2)

 

This will give you the same cost as Defence or Attack vs all 3 types.

[Hierax]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

With the weapons you'd need a 4th entry for damage without shields.

 

But with the shields you wouldn't need to do this (if these are the only energy weapon types and you apply the Limitation only vs. the rED part of shields, and leave the rPD part, if any, alone).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

Maybe I’m missing something, but this didn’t look quite right to me.

3d6 EB Weapon A (15 Active pts)

Plus 1d6 EB; Only vs. FF type B (-1/2) (5 Active; 3 real)

Plus 1d6 EB; Not vs. FF type C (-1) (5 Active; 2 real)

Total Cost 20 points

“Only vs. FF type B” can only affect 1 out of 3 types of shields and is set at -½, yet “Not vs. FF type C” can affect 2 out of 3 types of shields and is set at -1. Shouldn’t those values be reversed? Or am I completely misreading/not understanding something?

[LaughingLunatic]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

Thanks for the feedback guys!

 

Bigbywolfe:

You're right, I got the limitations backwards... it should be written as:

 

 
3d6 EB Weapon A (15 Active pts)
Plus 1d6 EB; Only vs. FF type B (-1) (5 Active; 2 real)
Plus 1d6 EB; Not vs. FF type C (-1/2) (5 Active; 3 real)
Total Cost 20 points 

 

 

Hierax:

Is this what you are suggesting?

 

 
Weapon A:
4d6 EB; Only vs. FF type A (-3) (20 active; 5 real)
plus 5d6 EB; Only vs. FF type B (-3) (25 active; 6 real)
plus 3d6 EB; Only vs. FF type C (-3) (15 active; 4 real)
plus 4d6 EB; Only vs. "Not FF" (-3) (20 active; 5 real)
Total Cost: 20 points 

 

 

If I understand you correctly, then this seems like an overly complicated method for a multi-power...

 

Now that I type it "aloud".... I wonder if that would be the way to build it...

 

Weapon A:
Slot  Real  Active  Power
25    25    25      Energy Rifle: 25 point Reserve
1u    11    20      Attack vs. NOT FF type B or C: 4d6 EB
                     Limited (Not vs. FF type B or C; -3/4)
1u    13    25      Attack vs. FF type B: 5d6 EB
                     Limited (Only vs. FF type B; -1)
1u    8     15      Attack vs. FF type C: 3d6 EB
                     Limited (Only vs. FF type C; -1)
Total Cost: 28 pts.

 

hmm... it's a lot clearer without building a summary table... but it's also more expensive without adding anything. In fact, it actually may limit the character more by requiring a zero phase action to switch slots and adding a 'trigger' advantage makes it prohibitively expensive.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

The multi-power version seems more complicated than the compound power version, as does not truly have the benefits of a normal multi-power framework. Doesn't really seem necessary. Also, don’t see him mention using a framework at all; what makes you think that was what he meant?

[LaughingLunatic]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

I don't think he meant the multi-power at all... after I built the compound power that he suggested, I thought it looked a lot like a multi-power with ultra slots as each of the compound powers can only be used one at a time. This is, of course, assuming that I understood what Hierax was suggesting in the first place.

[Hierax]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

Thanks for the feedback guys!Hierax:

Is this what you are suggesting?

Weapon A:
4d6 EB; Only vs. FF type A (-3) (20 active; 5 real)
plus 5d6 EB; Only vs. FF type B (-3) (25 active; 6 real)
plus 3d6 EB; Only vs. FF type C (-3) (15 active; 4 real)
plus 4d6 EB; Only vs. "Not FF" (-3) (20 active; 5 real)
Total Cost: 20 points

If I understand you correctly, then this seems like an overly complicated method for a multi-power...

 

The way I'm looking at it you could put it into a MPP, VPP, EC, or just leave it alone. The point is that it would balance vs. buying a single power that does the average amount of damage vs. all. Also I'd go with -2 not -3 as -3 gives you 1/4 the cost and -2 gives you 1/3 the cost.

 

But looking back at your original post:

This build would do the following:

4d6 against the full DEF of a type A FF or Armor

5d6 against the full DEF of a type B FF

3d6 against the full DEF of a type C FF

I seem to have misread it above as:

4d6 against the full DEF of a type A FF

5d6 against the full DEF of a type B FF

3d6 against the full DEF of a type C FF

xd6 against any other defence that is not FF types A-C

 

But since that's not what you actually said, I'll change my suggestion to:

 

Because FF type A isn't treated any differently than armor (and presumably non-armor or any other possible defence) it doesn't need a modifier (Advantage or Limitation), and because vs. Type B is +1 DC or +25% Damage and vs. Type C is -1 DC or 75% Damage they cancel out (either as a straight +0 Modifier or as Advantage = Limitation):

 

Energy Weapon Type A

• 4d6 EB (20 BP) Different Damage Modifier (+1 DC/+25% damage bonus vs. Type B FF plus -1 DC/-25% damage penalty vs. Type C FF; +0) (20 AP; 20 RP);
  or
  
• 4d6 EB (20 BP); Different Damage Advantage (+1 DC/+25% damage bonus vs. Type B FF; +1/4)(25 AP); Different Damage Limitation (-1 DC/-25% damage penalty vs. Type C FF; -1/4) (20 RP).
  

This assumes that Shield Type B and Shield Type C are as common as each other. If they aren't then you'd have to adjust the Modifier numbers.

 

Hopefully I'm understanding this better this time around.

[LaughingLunatic]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

You've got it. That is more or less what I was going for an attack that was more effective against one type of SFX, less effective against a different type of SFX and baseline effective against all others. Where all FF based SFX are equally common.

 

I like the advantages/limitations canceling each other out... although, I'm leaning more toward the +0 effect than the +1/4 & -1/4... the +0 effect has the advantage of not increasing the actual active points, it just increases the effective active points.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Hierax]

Re: Energy Weapons with Variable effect...

 

yeah, that's why I offered the options. Glad it was helpful.

 

Hope to hear more about this conversion you're doing in the future.