TheSouljourner

Re: Help with Transform

My yardstick is that I use multiform whenever the alternate form *loses* some or all of the powers of the main form. Thus, if you turn into a raven and can no longer cast spells, multiform is appropriate. If you retain your abilities, it would probably be better to use a combo of flight, shrinking, and shapechange to a specific shape.

Cross posting here from the HD forums...

Here's a template I made that contains all the special versions of skills for Terran Empire campaigns, including stuff that TE references from Star Hero (e.g. systems operations). Where possible I left the original options intact (except for TF: space vehicles), so you could, for example, still take WF: Swords, if you want, even though it's not in the TE WF list.

I notably did not do the languages. Sorry, burnt out before that. I did do the million and one fringe benefits, gambling games, life supports, navigation types, and computer links.

Please let me know if you see any errors.

Re: Opinions on the cost of Strength and Speed for superheroic

Speed I can agree is tough to price correctly - its effectiveness is multiplied by the effectiveness of the rest of your character. 5 might be ok for low powered heroic, and 20 might be too cheap for high powered supers. You pretty much have to get the player and GM to agree on a speed that makes sense and isn't unbalancing. The points are just there to appease the other players.

Strength I think is fine. It's like a hand to hand attack that has a +1/4 advantage: lets you pick up heavy stuff. No big deal. Picking stuff up is hardly ever game breaking, it's just fun.

Re: Hero System Resource Kit?

It's for 5E. I made the mistake of buying it... it is unfortunately not labelled and I just assumed it would be for 6E. There's some nice maps, and the charts on the screen are probably mostly correct, but I doubt it's worth full price if you only play 6E.

Re: Starship combat?

There has been some recent discussion on this topic; in this thread and also a bit in this other thread.

Thanks for the links, though the first one appears to just point to this thread we're talking in right now. Interesting self-referential loop, but probably not what you were going for.

The movement I think I want to be standard flight movement with turn modes... tracking vectors is way more trouble than I want to take, and loses a lot of tension.

I like all the ideas for different roles.. that'll definitely help keep everyone from getting bored (the last thing I want in what is supposed to be a riveting space battle).

Definitely good call on using tactics to allow the captain to coordinate the crew... that's a great role that can add a lot of interesting options to the combats.

What's your preferred way to handle starship combat? I know there are some rules in Star Hero, but I can't really tell how well they work. I'm going to be running a Terran Empire game, with the approximate tech level of Star Wars, with the main ship being about the size and crew of the Millenium Falcon.

I'd like for the PCs to have useful individual contributions to the combat, even if that's running around repairing holes in the hull.

The "dramatic" rules under starship combat are definitely what I'm looking for (I don't really care about realism other than I want things to at least make sense internally to the system).

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

-Nate

Re: 6E Damage Resistance?

Ahh... naked advantage resistant... that'll do it. Thanks!

Re: Newbie and confused: What do I need?

As Gojira said - the Basic Rulebook is a good place to start to learn the rules. For fluff, you need another book. Because Hero is supposed to be a toolkit for any type of setting, there's no default setting in the rules. Further, Hero has books that give additional rules for each genre (Superhero, Fantasy, Sci-fi, etc), which are not specific to any one setting.

Finally, there are books which are almost pure fluff, these are the setting books, such as Valdorian Age or Terran Empire.

I recommend getting the Basic Rulebook and maybe a Genre book (like Champions or Fantasy Hero). It'll give you plenty of stuff to think about. Then you can decide if you want to purchase a pre-made setting, and will have a better idea of what setting you'd like to play in, since you'll know the rules better.

Translating some 5E racial templates to 6E.... one of them has damage resistance 2PD and 2ED... which simply makes 2 of each of their natural (non-resistant) PD and ED into resistant. I can't figure out what the equivalent is for 6E, since damage resistance seems not to exist anymore.

Trying to get it to work in Hero Designer, but I figure once I know the official way to do it, I can get it to work there easy enough.

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

Yep, I expect people will have multiple MPs eventually, and that's fine with me. I definitely do not want one mega MP, that would be too much of a cost break. I'll make pregen powers if need be, but I'd rather let the players come up with them... it's fun for them and they might think of things I don't.

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

So, what I want is a blanket rule that can be applied across all characters. I definitely do not want "Psions may do X, the rest of you may not". I also do not want the rule to escalate the power level in the campaign, rather I would like to use it to allow greater variety without needing to give a lot of additional points.

The rule I am going to start with is that powers in a multipower must represent the same in-game ability and must be very tightly coupled game elements. So, you can't put mind control and flight in the same multipower, because there's no logical connection between the abilities in-game and the powers are vastly dissimilar. However, like the example I gave, both powers are TK and keep the player's power under the 20 active point cap, without requiring he double up on TK powers just so he can have both a reasonable STR and fine manipulation.

We'll see what comes of it.

Re: GM conundrum - CSLs

Not needing dex to gain CV is one of the main reasons I like 6th edition so much. You can have a slow brick who can still hit stuff. It's so much better.

So, I gave my players the following in-game examples of what some numbers of CSLs mean:

1: Trained Soldier

2: Elite Soldier

3: Captain/Master

4: Grand Master

Given the low resolution of heroic games and the 3d6 bell curve in general, I wanted to make it clear that you don't need +8 to hit to be good. +4 gives takes you from a 50% hit rate to a 90% hit rate. That's a huge jump.

Notably, I have still not given them a hard cap on CV. We'll see what they come up with.

Re: Transforming Into Monsters?

My question would be - if this is for RP purposes and not meant to be used in combat or on the PCs... Why do you need to define rules for it at all? Just say he can do it, define the twisted NPCs with points as usual and go to town. Unless you're specifically looking to define the power so that the PCs can stop it and/or reverse it, then it doesn't really need rules.

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

Thanks, guys. Ghost-Angel, especially good to hear that it works in practice as well as in theory.

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

First' date=' nothing in the rules requires that the powers in a Multipower be related in any way. It's a mechanic, not a special effect. Of course, with the above structure, he can only use one at a time. [/quote']

 

Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that was required... but generally you wouldn't put completely unrelated powers into the same multipower. There has to be some in-game reason the user can't use both at the same time, otherwise the effect and the mechanics don't match.

 

It's tough to work with these in a vacuum. Will this character be able to buy a ton of 2 point TK powers in a Multipower while the other characters will be prohibited from using power frameworks? If so' date=' this character has a pretty big advantage. If everyone can use frameworks, not so much. [/quote']

 

My assumption was that if I allowed one character to use a multipower, that I'd have to give everyone access to them (subject to approval of course). Just wondering if anyone else had experience with this in a heroic campaign. In a superhero campaign, I'd have no qualms, since pretty much the sky's the limit. But I have less experience in Heroic campaigns.

 

Perhaps, in that case, the ruling is that he can use the Multipower for these two powers, but any other powers must effectively be variations on this very tight theme. So perhaps he could add an Area Effect TK power, but he could not add a Telekinetic Punch (Blast) or a Telekinetic Defense Shield (Resistant Defense). If the usual rule is "no frameworks", it seems perfectly reasonable to restrict what can be done when you allow an exception.

 

IMO, what you are really doing here is allowing the character to eliminate the cost of having Fine Manipulation, as he gets the same STR he could otherwise have bought when he doesn't need fine manipulation. The only differences between the Multipower and allowing him to buy 12 STR with Fine Manipulation is that his Fine Manipulation will only have 6 STR, and he gets a huge cost discount.

 

So, about the huge discount.... I don't think it is actually that big.

 

If he had simply TK 12 STR + FM, that would be 28 points. He's spending 24 (it could actually be 23, since he only really needs a 19 point reserve).

 

So, it's a 5 point savings for only being able to use FM with STR 6. While fine manipulation probably often doesn't require a lot of strength, I would say that sometimes it does (picking up a rifle with a STR min and firing it), so it is a limitation worth a few points, at least (especially since 6 STR is quite low).

 

I think I've convinced myself that allowing very tightly related powers in a multipower is ok. I like your example of not allowing a blast or shield in the same multipower, since they're significantly different than the TK power.

 

 

I view the powers in the Multipower for purposes of DC caps and similar, but I'm not really a hard cap kind of guy. I might allow someone with a very inflexible suite of powers to have higher DC's or higher AP's than someone with a lot of flexibility, from an MP or otherwise, but if I were allowing Multipowers to begin with, I'd base the point cap on the powers in the Multipower.

 

If a player wanted a 40 point Multipower with a suite of 20 AP slots so he can use two at a time, I would not consider that to violate your 20 AP maximum, for example.

 

Ahh, good point about the 40 point MP with 20 point powers in it. I agree, that shouldn't count as going over the cap... any more than having two 20 point powers outside the multipower would.

Re: GM conundrum - CSLs

Ok, I think we have figured out most of the confusions and miscommunications here.

1.) Points from Complications add to the free points you have, they don't cost points (so a character with 325 points plus 75 points in complications may spend 400 points on his character)

2.) The Basic Rulebook doesn't include the rules for using Stun to pay for END you don't have (I have both BR and the full rules, and confirmed this)

3.) You pay for END after using a power

I don't think we really need to keep hammering on these points.

I work with people who speak English as a second language every day, and I can totally understand the frustration on both sides when you can't get your point across. We just have to remember that no one is doing it on purpose, and even two people with the same native language can have trouble getting their point across.

On the original topic - I decided to simply give my players guidelines about what normal CVs should be in the campaign, and what different numbers of CSLs should represent for in-game skill. My players are pretty responsible, and so I'm hoping they'll take the guidelines to heart without having to impose hard caps.

As I've said before, I'm running a 6e Terran Empire (Star Hero, heroic level) campaign. One of my players wants to be psionic and take telekinesis. Fine fine... and I've laid out power caps at 20 points per power, to try to keep psionics from taking over the genre.

Looking at telekinesis, you can get 12 STR for 18 points, or 6 STR with fine manipulation for 19 points. Now, in a supers game, I'd just suggest that he slap it in a multipower and save himself some points, as they're obviously just two facets of the same power.

TK Powers (Multipower, 20 point reserve)

2 - 12 STR TK

2 - 6 STR TK + FM

Cool cool.. but now he can add on powers for 2 points each... and that's what worries me in this heroic game. It becomes very easy for him to add powers (they need to be related, but still.. entirely new uses for a power for 2 points).

Also, how do you work point caps with multipowers... do you include just the reserve, or the cost of the powers as well? I know it's just a personal choice, but wondering what other people do.

Thanks for the help!

-Nate

Re: Slow target power.

Drain 3d6 vs Any one movement power +1/2 (Variable Effect 6E1 142) = 45 points. Simply use it against whatever movement power is currently being used. Of course, they'd be able to switch from running to flying or whatever and have full capability there.

or:

Drain 1d6 vs. Flight, Running, Swimming, Leaping, Swinging, and Burrowing +2 1/2 (Expanded Effect 6E1 142) = 35 points

Which will do all of them simultaneously, but only a little bit of each.

I think that's the best you can do, unfortunately... the problem is that the effect you have is very powerful, and you just don't have enough points to do it effectively.

Re: Terran Empire

Well that sucks. At least there's very little to do to update it, other than converting the costs of racial templates.

Re: GM conundrum - CSLs

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm new to GMing Hero, though I've played a fair bit, and my players are all new except one, so it's possible he didn't realize what he was buying.... but my players have been playing RPGs for 15-20 years, so they're pretty good at understanding odds, and the effects of having +8 to a 3d6 roll.

Anyway, I like the idea of a variety of CSLs, vs range, hit locations, and regular CSLs. That'll still let him do trick shots and long shots pretty easily, without automatically hitting when he doesn't intentionally penalize himself.

Hugh, you make a good point. Naked advantages and other things could be more useful than +8 to hit. I guess I'm too used to D&D where bonuses to hit are really powerful, because it's easy to bump up your damage. But when you're using an off-the-rack 2d6 RKA, hitting more may not be as good as it seems.

I'll have to reevaluate, and give the players some more options with how to be good aside from just hitting a lot.

So I'm starting a Terran Empire campaign (heroic level), and one of my players just submitted a character who took 8 CSLs in Rifles. For a mere 24 points (a big investment, but not at all unreasonable given some people have 20 point psionic poewrs) he will now never ever miss with a rifle.

Obviously I can always just say no, but that sounds so artificial. What is ok, then, 4? 3? 6? And what do I tell him when he says "but I paid the points"? Are CSLs that undercosted?

Re: How would you build flight that works underwater?

As Escafarc said,

Flight with the advantage +1/4 works as swimming.

Bam, done You'll love the full book... so many more options

Re: Anyone using 1 pt per Dex in 6E?

Thanks for all your insights.

I almost feel like the 6 base stats should be 2 points each, but I'm sure everyone would be up in arms about that. If 1 point each means everyone just takes 20 (in heroic campaigns) or otherwise has unreasonably high stats, it means the stats are priced too cheaply.

Re: Anyone using 1 pt per Dex in 6E?

I tried it' date=' didn't work well. On the other hand, considering bumping Intelligence up to Match it though for similar reasons that I want to keep Dex as more Expensive then the other stats.[/quote']

 

I'd love to hear why it didn't work. Did everyone just have 20?

Re: Rolling for initiative

I was only suggesting a roll at the beginning of combat, and then keeping that value the rest of combat. Definitely a roll every phase would be way too slow.