Watchdog

Re: Funniest ingame event

I may have posted this a couple of years ago, but what the hey.

In my Dark Champions campaign, my friend Chris had a character called Dawg. He was an 18 year old mutant, very strong and very fast, but only had 5 PD in resistant defenses.

He's having lunch with his girlfriend at a nice restaurant downtown when a gunfight in broad daylight breaks out in the street between rival organized crime gangs. Chaos ensues. Dawg is able to get away from his girlfriend and change into his costume.

He routs the thugs, but there were so many of them that a few were able to get off some shots, and he took a couple points of BODY from leg wounds. Before the police arrive, he hides, ditches the costume, and changes back into his civvies.

When the cops and ambulances show up, Dawg's girlfriend notices the blood seeping through his clothes, and insists that he goes to the hospital. At this point, Dawg realized that he had a huge dilemma: his clothes would have no bullet holes. He was so afraid that his secret ID would be revealed that he was about to get out of the ambulance. As GM, I told him that he could, but that it would look even more suspicious. He finally relented and went to the hospital.

He was treated for his superficial wounds, and then two detectives came to question him. Detective Brogan was the younger of the pair, and told him that they just needed to clear up a few things about the shooting. Lisco, the older cop, told him that if he could straighten it out, they wouldn't have to ask his girlfriend about it. Dawg hesistated, then agreed to answer them.

Brogan: So where were you when the shooting took place?

Dawg: In the restaurant, with my girlfriend.

Brogan: You were in the corner booth?

Dawg: That's right. Just having lunch.

Brogan: And how did you get shot?

Dawg: Some of the stray rounds that came through the window.

At this point, Brogan starts to laugh, tries to hold it in, and fails. He excuses himself and leaves the room. Dawg can still hear him laughing while Lisco takes over.

Lisco: See, here's the problem we're having. You got shot twice, but we can't find any bullet holes in your pants. Can you explain that?

Dawg: Well...

Lisco: So to sum up...you were in the restaurant. In the corner booth. You got shot by stray rounds, your pants didn't get shot...but you were "just having lunch."

By now all the other players are laughing. Chris is half-relieved, half-embarrassed.

Dawg: Uh...

Lisco: Look, kid. I was young once too. I remember what a thrill it could be, getting it in public places and all. But take it from me: In the future, take her to a nice hotel. It just shows more class. Know what I mean?

Dawg: Uh, yes sir.

And so the secret identity of Hudson City's mutant vigilante was preserved, costing him only his dignity.

Re: Which Edition of Champions/Hero System Worked Best for Your Champions Campaign?

I played 1st edition Champions back in the early 80s, and have had experience with the other editions as well. While I'll agree that the presentation and tone of 5th ed varies greatly from 4th, I'd say that the actual changes made in rules are very minor, espeically compared to going from 3rd to 4th.

Changes in END expenditure, the addition of an entire marital arts system, and other things make it more difficult for me to update a character from 3rd to 4th than from 4th to 5th.

I guess I prefer 5th. Any flaws in the layout/presentation are more than made up for by the index, imo - especially compared to the BBB.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill?

Trey did not dive out the ninth floor window clutching his sister because it had already been established (in a previous campaign with a different character) that physics are not suspended simply because you are in the grip of a superhero trying to protect you from harm;Trey would have been fine, Irma would have been gazpacho.

 

Okay, that makes a little more sense. And we've probably given you more flack than you deserve for this. Still...

If I'm Trey, I grab my sister, and start going down the stairs, because:

1. I may get out in time. (I don't know Trey's SPD and move base, but even a SPD 4 character with no movement powers should be able to get out in less than five turns.)

2. If one of the other heroes get their heads out of their butts and come to help me, I'm making it easier for them to get her out.

3. If I can't get out in time, I might at least be able to get to a low enough floor where jumping out the window doesn't result in sis being Spanish soup.

4. Even if there's no way to get her out in time to save her life, I want her last few seconds to be with her brother holding her, telling her he loves her. Leaving her to die, alone...well, I'll just say the whole thing sounds like it wasn't the finest hour of anyone in the campaign.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill?

I don't meant to beat this to death, but just am curious, why didn't he dive out the window with the girl?

 

Yeah, still color me confused. Unless the HQ was at the top of a very tall office building, even a 2 SPD normal would have time to grab the kid and get out in 5 turns, especially with the non-combat multiplier option. But even the tall bulding wouldn't explain why the "physically invulnerable" character didn't jump out the window with her.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill?

However, a while later the Champions headquarters had a bomb planted in it. The responsible party called and told whoever answered the phone about it and told them they had five minutes to vacate the premises. Every Champion except my character fled, he couldn't. He had an eight year old, mildly retarded, epileptic sister in the room with him and he couldn't get her out on his own and no one was trying to help. The bomb destroyed the building, killed his sister and left him essentially unscathed. Angel saw him walking out of the wreckage carrying his sister's corpse and ran up to ask him if he was okay. Trey (my character) delivered a vicious shot to Angel's kidneys and then stomped Warren Worthington the III to death before anyone could intervene . . .

 

And, no, I did not consider Trey a hero after that . . .

Sorry, I know this is off-topic...but why couldn't a superhero get a child out of a house by himself in five minutes?

Re: What are some interesting disadvantages you have used?

Had a character with these two:

Psych Lim: Doesn't believe in fate, karma, or luck.

3d6 Unluck

Re: What is your ideal sized hero group

A larger group is better when you have people who can't make it every week due to family, work, etc. 1-2 players who can't make it won't have to shut the game down if you have 5-6 in the group, but if you just have three players, you have to skip a session.

Re: What's the most outrageous plot your PCs have ever been subjected to

I had CLOWN show up in my Dark Champions campaign.

And with that, I believe I've taken the lead in the "Sentences Least Likely to be Written by Steven Long" contest.

Re: Making a PC for a true newbie...help

Okay, here's a few name suggestions, in order of personal preference.

1. Rather than a superheroish sounding name, how about going under whatever street name the character might have used?

2. Side Kick. Okay, on the surface, it sounds horribly generic, and even though the character is under the wing of another PC, they might not like the Bucky/Robin images it conjures up.

But the term "side kick" actually has its origins in pickpocket slang at the turn of the 20th century. Pickpockets called the front pocket in a coat or pair of pants the side kick. It's the hardest pocket to pick. Since its contents were the most secure, and therefore, inseperable from the wearer, someone came up with using it to describe a companion. By 1920, it was commonly used to describe a friend.

So if it's a street thief with a sense of history, they might like the "hidden" connotations of the name.

3. A 19th century term for a skilled pickpocket was "Fine Wirer." Not sure if that's a great name for a PC, but it's better than another pickpocket term from the time called "Flimp".

4. Phoenix. Should scare the crap out of any villains who read Marvel.

Re: Campaign length

My champions campaign started about 9 years ago, but in our gaming group, we typically play one game for 3-6 months, then someone else takes over as GM for a different campaign. We currently alternate between Champions, Shadowrun, D&D, and Star Wars, though we've also done stints of Star Trek, CoC, and a little GURPS here and there.

Re: Pros/Cons of an 'official' campaign world

You are also completely forgetting that DOJ doesn't own many of the 1-4E characters. The full rights were never purchased. That's why you don't see Professor Muerte in the 5E continuity. He is mentioned but not written up.

 

I just had a vision of Muerte as the Twisted Toyfair Theater version of Doctor Doom:

"What? Muerte suffered the indignity of being written out because they were too cheap to buy the rights? You just made the list, Long!"

Re: Pros/Cons of an 'official' campaign world

 

If all the CU produced material referenced a specific undefined starting point, and didn't conflict with each other or advance time- there is no metaplot to come into conflict with.

Taken to this extreme, I think there would be a danger of really hamstringing the writers of future adventures and sourcebook material. How far are you willing to go with this?

If you ran DOJ, and a really good adventure was submitted that involved a supervillain leading an escape from Stronghold, and that particular villain's presence was germane, if not essential, to the plot, would you nix it because in the character's original published description, it said that he had "never been captured"? Writing a little backstory about how he was captured prior to this adventure would be unacceptable?

And the further we go into the future, and more products are published, I think the harder it is to get around your desire for CU material to not advance time. Real world changes and time passage could affect writeups of various characters and locations. If you don't reflect those changes to at least some degree, I think you risk stagnation.

Basically it's a ownership issue.

 

Did HERO give us a setting that we own after day 1, or did they create their own storyline that we either conform to or can no longer use as given.

 

It used to be the former, and now it's becoming the second.

I haven't liked all of the changes made in the CU in 5th edition. I didn't like the changes in the "core" Champions team. I didn't like the changes made to Eurostar (especially the way that Bora, who had 0 END, fully invisible desolidifciation, was taken out by a sniper. What, they shot her while she was eating a pastrami on rye?)

But the way I look at it, by them publishing the "updated" versions, I have 3 choices. I can introduce the change immediately into my campaign, as I did with several write-ups. I can decide not to use them, as I did with the Eurostar changes. Or I can decide to gradually introduce them to my campaign - Detroit was just recently destroyed, and Millenium City is years of game time away from completion.

If DOJ was prevented from making any kinds of changes between 4th and 5th edition writeups, histories, etc., I lose options 1 and 3. To me, it's worth doing the additional work in picking and choosing which updates I use if it means having more options. YMMV.

Re: Pros/Cons of an 'official' campaign world

A small change. Some work converting old characters to 5th edition with it's new standards. The fact that every time the characters appear to a new player you have to run through "Well, in our campaign..."

 

Then comes the next thing, and the next thing, and soon you're left with what may as well been a whole cloth creation anyway. All the advantages of using a published setting lost as you spend more effort explain the differences than you would in explaining a homegrown setting.

 

But changes between any home campaign and the CU are inevitable, because even if every campaign played the same adventure scenarios, the decisions, actions, and results of the players will influence the campaign world. Many of these results won't be a part of future CU material. If this happens to several different characters, locations, etc., does that mean that all the advantages of using a published setting are lost? Imo, that's a pretty gross overstatement.

Here's an example from my own Dark Champions campaign. A minor character in the Shadows in the City sourcebook, attorney Camden Brown, has become a major player in Hudson City politics - to the point where he's running for mayor. If he beats the incumbent Ulmstead, it's going to mean a lot of changes to Hudson City, from politics to business to organized crime. But even a dozen changes on that magnitude wouldn't make Justice, Not Law or the 5th ed Hudson City book not worth having.

If I was a new player, I would hope that the GM would need to take some time to say "In our campaign..." Otherwise, I'd be wondering exactly what his characters had been doing.

Re: Pros/Cons of an 'official' campaign world

I think that there are different levels of "metaplotting".

I don't think that having a couple of characters killed off from a supervillain group is major metaplotting. I don't think that they're preventing you from using those characters in a 5th edition format, any more than they're preventing you from using any 4th edition character that hasn't been killed, and just simply hasn't appeared in a 5th edition format.

However, I can think of instances of major metaplotting in other games that could have much greater repercussions in a campaign world.

Let's use Shadowrun, since that was one of the games that Fox mentioned. There was a very powerful dragon called Dunklezahn that was a major player in most campaign worlds. There was even an adventure module where he ran for president.

But he ended up being assassinated in very mysterious circumstances. While Shadowrun has a "chatter" feature in their books that can allow a GM to intrepret what actually happened (Who really killed him? Did he fake his own death to go into hiding? etc.) it still had a great effect on the canon campaign world - to the point of having several published adventures dealing with the aftermath of his demise.

Now if, in a GM's campaign, Dunklezahn is alive and well and publicly active, this puts him into a bit of a quandry. Of course, he's not obligated to change his campaign to fit the canon universe of SR. But for something this big, it's going to mean he'll have to make more and more changes to make the published sourcebooks/adventures fit his own world. That can lead to more time and effort than some GMs are able to spare.

To put it in Champions context, it would be like killing off Dr. Destroyer in the canon universe, and having the next several adventures and sourcebooks showing all the changes that happened to the world as a result. That could certainly spark some debate.

Having said that, I don't think a couple of roster changes in one villain group rises to that level of campaign disruption.

Re: Making a PC for a true newbie...help

You're welcome. One other idea that I like, especially for new players, is to give them a Power Skill. Since wading through all of the powers and advantage variations can be daunting, this gives a GM a way to encourage them to think creatively about using their powers. ("What if I tried using my TK like this?")

Re: Making a PC for a true newbie...help

Just out of curiousity, did the players give you any input into what kind of character they wanted to play?

I know that Champions is a complex game to begin with, especially with RPG novices. And taking them through building that first character could easily take at least one full session of play. But I'd at least want some idea of what their favorite powers or archetype was before building characters for them.

I don't see anything wrong with TK as written...but you've already made it very versatile and, with so many slots in the multipower and EC, pretty complex. If the purpose is to not overwhelm the player with so many combat options, I may want to eliminate a few slots. That would simplify the character, and give them some "growth areas" to spend XP on. Perhaps they can affect large objects (keep TK fist and mind over matter), but have trouble with more delicate operations (drop mental manipulation and telekinetic bullets).

Re: What have you done with the Asesinos?

Most munchkins, awed that Stalker was able to get 20 pts. from a "Dies if staked through heart" physical limitation, refuse to attack him out of professional courtesy...

Re: Spiderman Vs. Firelord

Whatever. I suppose I could be mistaken, but until I have comics in front of me that prove otherwise, I'll stick by what I know I read. You guys feel free to keep arguing about it if that makes you happy.

http://www.newkadia.com/NK.php?sst=Spider-Man

1985: Spidey Fights Firelord in Amazing Spider-man

http://spiderfan.org/comics/title/spiderman_web-3.html#64

Late 1989- early 1990 Cosmic Spidey Storyline in Web of Spider-man

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=749810#post749810

2005: Bblackmoor realizes that sometimes people disagree with him because he's wrong, not just because they're trying to be difficult.

Re: Captain Wonder--AWAAY!!!

One question. In regards to this:

20 Psych Lim: Seeks Respect, Will Not Tolerate Contempt

Common Situation, Total Intensity

Pretty much every hero - or any other celebrity - gets heckled by the public at one point or another. Based on the way I'm reading the psych. lim, there's no way he would - or since it's a "total" psych lim, could - ever just walk away from hecklers...correct?

I think it's something to be concerned about. If an athlete going into the stands can do some of the damage we've seen in real life, imagine a guy with a 12d6 HTH attack.

Even if he can somehow restrain himself from violence, it's not going to look good to be getting in the face of normals saying things like "How dare you?! I'm a superhero!!" Or going to a newspaper to demand a retraction after seeing an unflattering column/editorial about him.

I'm not saying the lim. is bad. I think it can lead to some very interesting roleplaying opportunities, as the character learns just how respect can be earned - and lost.

Re: Superpowers that haven't been thought out...

So, I ask, when he puts the cereal in his mouth, why do the milk and the crunchy oat clusters and the whole grain flakes not whither and float away as dusty motes when they touch his lips and tongue?

 

Is there a synthetic cardboard on the market? If there is, I can think of a few cereals he would be able to eat...

Re: How to build this power

 

Not exactly. All the merge adder does is allow desolid character to go inside of a target's body and be able to attack him without buying the affects physical world advantage. What they lose is the ability to phase through objects when merged because it's not true desolidification. On top of that any attach which hits the victim hits the possessor as well. So I'm basically give an advantage [affects physical world] and two limitations [can't pass through solid and does not protect against outside attacks] and a two disadvantages [susceptability if ego roll is barely made and physical limitation, can be expelled] when merged is being used. All of that costs the player 20 extra points on his desolidification. The adder lets you do it without needing to see all the Hero-speak mumbo-jumbo.

Okay, it helps to see it in the mumbo-jumbo. I didn't realize that the possessor was affected by any attacks that hit the target, whether the attack affected the target or not. With that factored into it, 20 points seems reasonable to me.

In 5E [page 120 in 5Er] based on con is a -1 limitation.

Okay, found it on page 82 of my non revised 5E. In any event, the target still gets to use either his PD or ED against the attack when it's based on CON. If the target doesn't get to do the same with the based on DEX attack, I think it should be a lesser limitation.

I think your math is off. a 10d6 "body" mind control would be an average of 35 rolled. If the average dex in a champions game is 20-30 a 10d6 attack would range from +10 to +0 of effect.

My math was off, but on the average total, not the reduced cost of the limitation. (My example should have given an average total of 63 for an 18d6 attack.)

By giving the mind control a -1 limitation, you're making it half as expensive as the standard mind control. So 50 points of a standard mind control gives you 10d6 to roll for effect, but 50 real points at the -1 limitation gives you 100 active points for the same cost - or 20d6. So unless you're capping the amount they can put into mind control, they're going to average a roll of 70, which will still give them an average of +35 over a DEX 35 character. Against a DEX 30, it's even easier.

Now if the target of a based on DEX attack got to use his PD to resist this no range touch attack, that would be different. It's going to be a lot harder to pop into Grond, for instance. If that were the case, then I think you could make a better case for the limitation being worth -1.

Re: How to build this power

Interesting. There are things about Mitchell's build that I like...wait, that could be interpreted in a way I wouldn't want it to be.

I think the "fight for control" and ejection while stunned are very cool. But I have a few problems with it, too.

I understand and applaud your desire for simplicity, but the fact remains that the bodysnatching effect is three powers, if you include the access to the target's thoughts (telepathy). So even if we discount dropping the affects physical world advantage, you're basically giving them one power for the greatly reduced price of 20 points with the "merge".

I'm also not sure why making the mind control based on DEX should be worth a -1 limitation. The old BBB "mental powers based on CON" was only a -1/2 limitation, and in that case, the target got to subtract either his PD or ED from the attack before applying it to his CON. It doesn't look like the target gets that benefit in the build you're describing.

I think I'd be more inclined to make it a 0 limitation. As it stands, for 45 points the attacter will average a +40 effect even against a DEX 35 type character (with an 18d6 attack). That makes it too easy for the point cost, imo. You don't see mentalists with a 9d6 mind control getting a +30 result well over half the time.

One could argue that basing it on DEX makes it that much harder for the touch attack to hit the high DEX character in the first place. But with OCV levels only costing 2 pts. for a single attack, it's very cheap to offset that.

Again, simplicity is good. But too much simplicity often results in either massive game imbalance and/or severe headaches for the GM and players. For the most extreme example, the original Marvel Superheroes game comes to mind. It didn't get much simpler than that:

Player: I shoot my energy beam at her. Hit! Remarkable damage!

GM: Okay, she has a Remarkable force field, so no damage.

Player: So I'll never, ever be able to hurt her?

GM: Nope. If you're really lucky, you might get to stun her.

Player: Would her force field drop then?

GM: Nope.

Player: That sucks!

GM: Okay, her attack. She has typical fighting. You have amazing agility, but she'll still hit you half the time since you weren't dodging. (rolls). Yep, hit. She has poor strength, so you take four points of damage. Do you have armor or force field?"

Player. ARRGGGHHHHH!!!!

A less extreme example would be the Fuzion system, which tried some simplifications. Champions players thumbed their noses at it, and it still didn't appeal to new players.

I think there may always be a couple of powers that will be "Awkward fits" for Hero. This bodysnatching one, time control, etc.

But simplifying the power too much, or giving it its own name and entry under powers, doesn't mean putting it into play will be simple, either in actual use or in game balance. If that's the price we pay for not having the power descriptions of White Wolf games ("Level 3: Yeah, you can do some really cool things with this now."), then I'll be happy to pay it.

Re: How to build this power

Another question: If the "bodyjacking" characters are using desolidification as part of the build, they have to choose a fairly common attack that still affects them. What have their choices been?

Re: Character Idea....

He should be vulnerable to attacks from Sir Robin, as he's well known to be yellow.

Re: How to build this power

I looked in my old DC Heroes book (Mayfair edition). They called the power Personality Transfer, and while it wasn't cheap, it was less expensive than the Hero version, based on a percentage of starting points.

Add me to the list of those who like Doc's build, though I don't really have a problem with the bodyjack power in USPDB.

I do have a question for those with characters in their campaign. If the character has the "no range" limitation, do they also have to touch the character's skin? In other words, is someone like Iron Man immune to the transfer?