UbiquitousRat

Looks like my next session (in two Fridays time) will be running Hero System 6e. That's probably a good thing, but I will need to win the guys to the change very effectively... and transfer their heroes quite faithfully from the existing OSR-inspired system.

I've decided to build one of the heroes as-is and used that to set the points values. Looks like an appropriate level is having them start with 100 points (50 matching complications) and then add around 45 XP to lift them to their current experienced status in the present system.

Attached is Gerhad, the Mountain Drax Barbarian character. He's fairly straight-forward, and has been built using earlier advice from this thread. I'd appreciate a weather-eye on my construction skills.

Gerhad.pdf

Next comes the Human Ranger, the Uruk Warrior (don't ask!), the High Elven Witchhunter, and a Human Priest of the Lightbringer. The latter requires me to design a Divine Miracles system to match the one in use... but that is probably fairly simple.

Thanks for the advice thus far... and I hope you don't mind me continuing to post up stuff for evaluation.

Game on!

Speaking of GM screens, spence, what stuff do I need?

I have the old 5e HERO Resource Kit, but some of the tables appear to be very different - like the Throwing chart.

Any tips?

Heh - I read 5e and am starting with 6e. It's nice to be regarded as a "young pup" in at least one area of my life.

Hi.

Honestly, I was really getting a lot out of the posts and replies to my genuine question. I wanted to know why I should play HERO 6e. I've been persuaded to try it. I am in the process of working out how to port an existing campaign to HERO 6e.

Actually, although many people have been very helpful, the only distracting thing has been this obviously quite personal and acrimonious subplot about "versions". Frankly, I don't care because I have 6e. Not 5e, 4e, 3e, 2e, or 1e. 6e. Just that. Sorry if that's a offence to some. To me, it looks pretty cool... once I figure it out some more, anyhow.

PaycheckHero, and several others like mhd and Tess and Chris Goodwin... oh, to name but the ones I can immediately remember - these guys have been helpful. Muchly. Lots. Especially pointing out the difference between Dex and DCV, actually. (My apologies if I forgot your post and that makes me seem ungrateful... I'm not, I just suck at remembering names)

Now then... Before the "OP" (hey, I realised that is referring to me after 3 posts - smart, huh?) decides that his first impressions of these forums ("awesome, these guys are a credit to Hero Games") were wrong, can we get back to the core question and the sub-topics that directly relate to "why should I play HERO?"

Might I suggest that offended parties could message each other privately, thus sparing the rest of us from their ire? Oh, no... I just realised I am gonna get flamed for that. Sorry. Really. Well, mostly. I don't wanna inflame you, but I do wanna talk fun and games.

You know it's a game, right? WHY SHOULD I PLAY IT?

Ok, bigbywolfe, that's something as hadn't considered - thanks!

So, for a roughly 4th Level port to Hero, what kind of points value do you think I should aim for? Or should I just build the heroes and see if it fits into a common budget?

What solutions might you suggest?

To get back to the OP here is my 2 cents. The biggest reason I always return to Hero is that it offers something you won't find elsewhere (though there are some other systems that are joining HERO).  And that is the ability to build unique and one of a kind anything. But the big mistake most new HERO gamers make is assuming that HERO is a ready to play game.

HERO... is not a complete game+setting.  It is for lack of a better word, game-code.  It is the code used to write the game.   Because of this people that are used to being told what to do in an RPG, sometimes have a problem accepting that they need to decide what to do and then define it to the players. 

 ...

But that brings us to the crux of the matter.   You,  as the GM in HERO have to make those decisions, and none of the decisions you make are wrong.   Because it is your world. 

...

HERO is a source code that allows you to build pretty much any game world you can imagine and keep it balanced.  But you as a GM must define that world. 

 

Which brings me to the question.  Why play HERO?  Because I can create MY world or I can create MY character.  Not just the nearest thing that a prepackaged set of options allows.

For me, the appeal is to create what I want AND maintain balance.

Having tried to write my own games, because existing ones were too restrictive or used a one-die randomiser (which I feel is too random), I have run into problems of essentially out-of-whack effects. The effort in either writing a game cold or modding a game to fit my ideas is a lot of work. Hero looks like a lot of work too... but now I am wondering if, because a lot of stuff is "out there" to adapt AND because I have access to the 'game-code', I can actually make something better with maybe less effort. Or at least less worry about it not working.

Thanks, Spence, for the useful analogy.

Ok, following an ok but not awesome non-HERO session last night, there is a small possibility of the guys opting to shift system sooner than I might have anticipated. That leaves me with the challenge of porting characters.

If this happens, here is what I was thinking of doing:

- Convert the heroes for the players, porting their concepts as best as I can manage.

- Asking each player what elements are the "deal breaker" bits that must be converted, to make sure they get what they feel is important.

- Setting the Heroic points value to 200pts to take into account their higher-Level in the current system (roughly analogous to D&D Level 4).

- Playing but allowing player-led tweaking for a few sessions to off-set things I misinterpret.

What do you think? What else do I need to consider?

I think it's important to keep things relatable for the players, but it's also valid to question what I can ADD to their conceptions of things in the setting. A break with the Race and Role packages, at least a little, gives me wiggle room to present heroes who are, perhaps, a little more than they might be in our existing game. That MIGHT be something that justifies the change of system...

Actually, mhd, you make a good set of points. It might be a good idea for me to re-consider what the Drax are about as a race, and what is learned skill. Much to ponder.

Thank you!

Here's what I'm thinking for one those Dwarfish abilities:

Defensive Expertise (Giants & Ogres): Defense Maneuver I-II (5 Active Points); Conditional Power only usable against Giants & Ogres (-1 1/2) 

Really stumped on the "Hard as Granite". Currently, that's a simple "Saving Throw" modifier to three types of save. Seems like poison, fear, and magick are three very different effects in Hero. Hmm. Right now, it seems easiest to steal the Dwarven Toughness: Resistance (+3 to roll) from Fantasy Hero.

Having run a small combat, featuring Aelfrik fighting a Cave Bear (from the Bestiary), I think I have gained a somewhat better appreciation for the comments made earlier.

The main thing, however, is to report that although it was a very slow and faltering solo-play situation, I did manage to run a fight between the two characters. In the end, although he did receive a mortal wound (reduced to 0 BODY), Aelfrik killed the Cave Bear. It was interesting that neither character particularly suffered STUN to worry about them falling unconscious, however.

Anyhow... armed with new knowledge and some tips on the other thread, I'm going to look again at the Dwarf later this afternoon. It was a lot of fun (once I got going) to play... and encouraging to start imagining this with the other guys.

Game on!

Hi!

First of all, thanks again for the advice and comments - really appreciate it all!

I've set up a separate thread to continue the game design discussion, because it seems inappropriate to do so here:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/88195-helping-build-tikhon/

But... well... I'm persuaded to at least TRY to run a Hero 6e game in our existing fantasy setting of Tikhon. I've even got the guys open to the idea of playing "background building" one-shot adventures set in the past of the setting... although they don't know I'll run it with Hero yet.

Massive thanks once again! Hopefully you'll be willing to come and help me build this thing too.

Game on!

Hello!

Having been engaged by loads of good folk with the question, "Why play Hero 6e?", I have decided to give running a game a go. It seemed most logical to try and build elements for the existing Fantasy-genre game that my group is already playing, albeit with our own OSR-derived system. 

I've moved the posting here because it seemed better to separate the "help the newbie build stuff" thread from the previous topic. If you want to join in, I'd be grateful because... well, it's all new and I get the feeling that I need a lot of advice.

---

My First Drax (Dwarf)

Continuing the saga of Aelfrik, my first stab at a Dwarf hero, I've modified the character as advised. To help folk visualise what I am after, here are bits from the background my gaming group has constructed so far:

 

Dwarfs (Drax)

The Drax have been around longer than Humans can remember. Because they are shorter than Humans, they are commonly known as Dwarfs.

 

Dwarfs are tough, resilient and often dour; many Humans stereotype Dwarfs as grumpy and miserable, but this is a mistake which overlooks the Dwarfish capacity for celebration.

 

Physically, Dwarfs are shorter than Humans but also stout and tough. A Dwarf can usually work harder and longer, preferring to get stuck in rather than pussy-foot around. Well-adapted to high-altitudes, Dwarfs have nevertheless often chosen to live underground in mining communities. As a consequence, Mountain Dwarfs have become adapted to seeing in the darkness of underground places.

 

Dwarfs have wrestled with Orcs, Uruk, Goblins and Giants throughout most of their history, a fact which has scarred relations with these brutal species. Mountain Dwarfs harbor resentment and even hatred towards these tribal enemies, having long practised the art of war against their raids and depredations.

 

The Dwarfish love for shiny things is another fact that cannot be overlooked. Gold, gems and other precious things are desired greatly by most Dwarfs; it’s a fact that the average Dwarf would not be able to walk past a pile of Gold Sovereigns without pocketing at least a few of them… and he might not even notice that he has done so.

For a more full understanding of what I'm trying to convert, I've also pulled an extract from our setting guide for the existing d100-based game. If you focus on the Race and Role Traits / Advancements, you can get a feel for what I'm trying to emulate. It's very classical fantasy in feel... 

Mountain Dwarf Barbarian (UbiRPG extract).pdf

So far... I've lowered the DCV (and OMCV) and equipped him with Battleaxe, Bronze Panoply, and Bronze Shield. I've altered his Complications to emulate the Dwarfish lust for Shiny Things. I've also removed the inappropriate "Small" template. That leaves quite a few points to play with.

What I'd like to look at is how to emulate the Mountain Dwarf racial traits "Hard as Granite", and "Defensive Expertise (Giants & Ogres)". I'd also like to emulate the Mountain Barbarian's "Intimidate" trait. Advice welcome.

Here's the updated sheet... with many points still to spend: 

Aelfrik.pdf

In the meantime, I'm going to work on an Uruk Warrior...

Bizaare duplicate of post... sorry.

Thanks, PaycheckHero - that helps me understand where I am going wrong.

My Mountain Dwarfs (Drax) are very Tolkien-like but less "civilised". Also, given the earlier period, I want you to envision early Bronze Age tech as standard, not Iron Age. That said, he should be slow yet dogged, angry and able to dish out hurt.

What tweaks do you advise... and, most importantly, can you say WHY (so I can learn from your experience)?

My big problem is I have little frame of reference for what the numbers mean. Tomorrow, I plan to tweak the Dwarf + knock up an Uruk (Big Orc) and then run a fight. I need to understand how it plays.

Woah - ok. I think I understood SOME of that feedback. Remember: Hero neophyte here.

So... yes, he gets armour. I just hadn't worked out HOW at the point I posted the sheet (that, "how do I build it" thing proving some of fears about, "it'll be a pain to have to build everything").

Thanks for the explain on the value of armour, Paycheck, and the advice on buying some, Tasha - I'd not noticed how armour affects BODY damage.

As for the comments from mhd, I'm a little bit thrown. Let me try to explain where I am coming from: the character is a Dwarf, emulating the feel of things in our fantasy world that (in the current system). I just used the advice in Hero Basic to try and build something that might help me get my head around Hero. To be honest, I don't really understand your comments so clearly.

"...I would prefer seeing players with more situation-dependent combat skills and abilities instead of just sticking everything into OCV/DCV. Especially for a berserker.

 

Also, soaking more damage instead of just being incredibly hard to hit would be more suitable (honestly, 9 effective DCV?). Never mind that I don't think being slightly below 5 foot should cound as Small, and give you any stealth or defense bonuses.

 

Speaking of damage, he's got no way to increase it. Even with STR 18 and a huge weapon, that's easily beaten. In-rage HTH bonuses or full-fledged CSLs might be a good idea, if you're not going for some kind of "berserker martial art".

I can understand the desire to remove the Small bonuses, perhaps saving those for Halflings and Goblins. Other than that, I am lost to know what to do to improve him and, more importantly, why. Can you elaborate?

I want to put this together and learn... but I don't want to feel like I'm totally out of my depth. Please bear with me.

And again - thanks for the advice and support!

OK - here's the plan:

I'm going to construct a demo adventure set in our existing campaign world of Tikhon (currently playing with a house-built rules set), but set in an earlier pre-magickal era of time. Think proto-civilisation, swords about to clash with sorcery. I fancy the adventure being about how the Humans and Dwarfs first received the revelation of Helles, the "Lightbringer" God.

I've had a go at creating my first hero and would appreciate some feedback. He's a proto-typical Mountain Dwarf ("Drax") Barbarian type. I still need to add equipment, but I think I've translated the concept across reasonably. 

Aelfrik.pdf

What do you think?

As far as play-style goes, I'm an old-timer who has moved away from constructed plots towards an improvisational style. Graham Walmsley's "Play Unsafe" is a very good guide to how I'd like to play. The difficulty is that, as an old-timer, I like a certain tactical crunch to my gaming too. Finally, I like detail in my settings - cool recurring GMCs (formally known as NPCs), cool gear variants, and lots of custom details - like sub-species or cultural differences.

What appeals about Hero is the idea of customisation. In theory, I can make things the way I like 'em.

What worries me is how to balance Hero with my improvisational style. Starting a new session with just a few words on sticky notes is common for me, and putting aside time to do crunchy stat builds is... well, work. This worry is the last real barrier to me running a trial game. After that, it's going to boil down to, "how the frack do I build this idea?"

Wow, PaycheckHero, there's a lot to process there. Thanks!

mhd's vote of confidence is appreciated and useful too - I'm grateful.

It's clear I need to try something simple. Heroic game, perhaps modern genre or simple fantasy.

Hmm... Much to ponder...

I'll ping you if I end up with a spot, if a Steampunk-y Fantasy setting would be of interest.

Sounds great! Thanks!

More useful stuff and comments - thanks, guys!

Glorantha is a fantasy setting - www.glorantha.com

To quote the site: "Glorantha was first discovered by Greg Stafford in 1966. Over nearly five decades it has been explored by fans across the world through board games, role-playing games, computer games, books, and at conventions."

A quick Google hasn't revealed anything, so a I suspect it's a "no" for an already-out-there conversion.

I think that what I might need is a kind of intro game to run through the system. I will ponder...

Thanks, guys - there's a butt-load of useful stuff there. I am shifting towards giving Hero another go... but...

Right now, I am hearing a lot of, "When you are familiar with Hero, then..." - which makes me nervous.

I also get the feeling that I have a chicken and egg situation to resolve: to play the setting I want to play (say, my own or a major conversion design) I need to know what makes Hero tick; to learn what makes Hero tick, I need to play an pretty generic setting of someone else's design.

As GM of a group, I don't think my players will give it a shot for something generic. Learning a new system is a big deal for the group. (Although, thankfully, we are NOT a d20 / D&D group). That said, until I feel confident and happy with the design stuff in Hero, I won't be able to produce something whizzy.

Questions:

- Has anyone done a Hero Glorantha conversion? I could jive to that idea.

- Does anyone offer an online Roll20 Hero game I could learn from?

- Could I run a modern conspiracy weird game easily? Perhaps I could add Magick and more wild things as we go?

Thoughts welcome.

And again - many thanks to those posting replies! Muchly appreciated!

What gets lost in all the Power building details is that HERO has an extremely flexible Combat Engine that once learned can be used to cover almost any encounter and is very internally consistent.  Once you learn it you will likely have to fight the urge to convert other systems or even movie scenes into "Hero terms".  If your gaming group gets tired of a particular genre you are running you can use HERO to run a different game setting without having to learn a new combat mechanic (this is the promise of other 'Generic' systems like GURPS and EABA as well).

Thanks Hyper-man - another two cool points.

Yes, Hero handles combat well... does it handle non-combat scenes well too? And can I improvise combat scenes easily? My worry is that I need to super-prep combat scenes, which may limit my options to combatants I have time to design.

Yes, Hero is generic and can allow me to run any genre without learning new rules. Big plus... as long as prepping the new game doesn't take as long, or longer, than reading a new game book. My impression is that Hero needs a lot of up-front prep and doesn't handle improvised stuff well. Is my impression correct or false?

Thanks, Tasha. That's a great set of useful stuff listed up.

I have 6e, 6e Basic, HSEG, HSB, an old copy of Hero Designer; I also have Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, Champions, and Champions Powers.

You play Hero System for the customizability of EVERYTHING. Also for things like using Complications instead of Alignment (Codes of Conduct vs alignment).

 

...I don't know what genre game you want to use Hero to run. There are also resources on the Web that describe how to use Hero to run Star Wars, StarGate, Dungeons and Dragons and many other popular worlds in Hero.

Can you talk more about the advantage of customisability? How does this outweigh the massive effort it seems to require to customise? I need to understand how customising the game is a key advantage over just picking up another game's stuff?

Also, I don't understand the advantage of Complications as a replacement for Alignment. Can you elaborate?

Finally... My plans? I have an ongoing fantasy campaign, a proposed SF campaign, and a desire to run an urban fantasy conspiracy weird-sh*t campaign. How can Hero make those better?

Again - massive thanks for replying and starting to help me out!

Hi, hello, and welcome!

I own Hero System 6th. I am kinda drawn to the system, but fear that (as GM) it's a bucket load of work to run a game. I picture me sitting up to the wee-hours designing NPCs, designing weapons, and basically engineering every minute detail of equipment needed for my game. And then I'd need to persuade my group that it's a) easy to play, and worth the effort to learn.

My question: Why should we run Hero 6th? What does Hero give me that makes the benefits outweigh the effort?

Secondary question: If you persuade me, what can I do to make GMing easy?