Frenchman

Re: Anger Management

Just another thought came to me...well two of them actually.

First - The value of the Only When Enraged limitation should probably be different for different kinds of powers, right? If you have Enrage: Combat 14-/8- then you will be enraged most of the time you are in combat, so the OWE limitation on offensive powers should be pretty low. What about for defensive powers, which one would like to have on at all times, esp. unusual defenses such as mental defense? What about other, more unusual, less combat-focused powers like enhanced senses, clairsentience, or tunneling? Just a thought.

B: For pricing the OWE limitation I had an idea. The more often you are enraged the more often the powers will function, and thus the less the limitation should be worth. So what should the Max/Min amounts of Enrage get you? Should Berserk count for anything (I think not, others may argue)? What are the increments worth? I found that the maximum value for an Enrage Disadvantage (without Berserk) is 35 points. This is a VC, 14-/8- Enrage, which means that the character will be raging much of the time whether they want to or not. I then arbitrarily decided to assign each 5-point increment a value of -1/4 and start the scale at -0 for 35 - thus you get the following:

Value of OWE Limitation

Enrage Value

35 -0

30 -1/4

25 -1/2

20 -3/4

15 -1

10 -1 1/4

5 -1 1/2

A simple enough sliding scale that (I think) puts the OWE limitation at an appropriate value.

Re: Anger Management

This looks great, but I just have one tiny tiny question.

I thought you couldn't use missile deflection while enraged, because you can't take any defensive actions. Right? Or am I reading too much into it?

Course, just add uncontrolled or reflection and you're golden

Re: WWCYD: Doppleganger?

1- He'd engage them in conversation about an event several years past and see who messes up first. If that doesn't work (because the doppelganger can read minds, like my GM did) then the rest of the party distracts them while my 1/2 orc paladin shapechanges into a wizened old beggar, who then proceeds to beat them about the hindquarters with a stick. The surprised one is the doppelganger.

2- Since the newest and most mysterious member of our group is a servant of the same church and diety as my paladin character, he'd have them both take a holy (fiery) communion, which is painful to those who don't have true faith. Or he'd wrestle them both to the ground and hog-tie them. The doppelganger will get bored eventually and turn into something else to escape.

3- FIGHT!!! The rest of the party allready knows that in such a situation, my character will refrain from any magic other than healing spells and creating light - so if one pops off a spell they know which to go for.

Re: Ring of Bouyancy

I had a character with a power like this once...he was grossly obese. And fun(ny) as hell to play.

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

Its a great idea - and it doesn't change orcs so much that they will seem wierd and unfamiliar.

'Culture Swapping' as I call it, is a great method for mixing it up, especially when creating fantasy settings.

For example, in the setting I'm currently working on I'm making the Orcs have a rather Drow-like society/empire (From the perspective of Forgotten Realms, especially R.A. Salvatore), the Dwarves feel chinese, and the Hobbits are pictish.

It can make an old, standard race which you or your players are getting tired of fresh and new again.

Re: Multipower Focus Questions, (how does it work)

:confused:How does a multi-power work?

A multipower pool is a group of powers that you get to save a bunch of points on because you can only use one at a time - basically. It can get a little more complicated than that, but for your gun-sword it will work that way - you'll have two or more slots, such as the HKA (Blade) and RKA (Bullet), and you get to pick which one to use each phase.

I was also wondering if I could by combat skill levels (DCV ones) and define them as being able to block with the sword' date=' could I do that and have it so they don't have to go in the multipower. [/size']

That is a perfectly acceptible special effect for DCV levels. It also means you could add a Focus limitation to the CSLs, making them more affordable, since you don't get the DCV without the sword in hand. Putting them into the Multipower is (I think) technically against the rules, but it is something I have allowed and used to simulate a total defense mode.

P.S. If any of you would be willing to help me design the character build please tell me in a post or e-mail me, I would greatly apreciate this because the hero designer is a pain and I am well..... Kinda a noob at this. I would apreciate anyone who can spare some time to help me out, if I find people willing to do this I will type his background up on this thread.

-Extra thanks and cookies to all willing to do this

I'm sure you can find tons of people willing to help you build the character - try starting a thread for that purpose in the appropriate genre board (Fantasy, I'm guessing)

Good luck

PS: Thanks for the cookies

Re: DragonLance Setting Conversion

Guess I'll need to dig out that old Box Set from 2nd edition.

A note on Kender - If you want to make them all semi-sane kleptomaniacs, thats OK, but they don't really come off that way to me. If a PC wants to be a Kender, and you decide to allow it, don't shove a pile of psych lims down their throat. Suggest ones like 'Child-Like Outlook' and 'No Concept of Personal Property/Space' but don't blanket all of them with Klepto. Kender don't steal intentially, they just don't comprehend the ideas of theft and property.

Re: Analyze This

I'm pretty sure he means the Sense Adder, not the skill. And on that assumtion...

In our games we usually set up a structure for each detect that is bought, and theres a few basics, like:

Normal: Tell when something is there, and a vague direction/whereabout.

Discriminatory: Tell a pretty good whereabout/direction, tell one species from another (dogs from cats, humans from orcs)

Analyze: Tell an exact location, if within range, tell apart individuals.

We use that as a guideline when creating a detect. A common one for us is detect magic, and we work it like this:

Normal: Tell when a person/object is magical, but if one of a group (a person in a crowd, a book in a stack, or an object held by a person) is magical, then they can't tell exactly which one without closer examination. Close examination can also reveal the Sphere (our 'schools') of magic, while cursory examination can give a rough estimate of the power level (on a 1-5 scale)

Discriminatory: Tell which people/objects in a group are magical with cursory examination. Sphere and power level are apparant at a glance, and specific effects can be gleaned from close study. At this level, one can tell the difference between the major 'styles' of magic (equivalent of Arcane/Divine, or elvish/human magics in other settings).

Analyze: Know the specific effects and power level of a magical effect at a glance, and the specific spell if the detector is familiar with it. The user can readily distinguish between the magic of different individuals.

There, is that a good 'nuff example for you? If not, I can dig out some of the other ones that players have used.

Re: Power Defense

Its a simple premise really... define the most oft used case/level as your baseline and let the rarer cases have the funkier writeups. its a user friendly kind of thing.

So are you saying that, in heroic games at least, killing attacks should have OAF, Zero END, STR Min, Required Hands, Real Weapon, etc... figured into them as the base, and force characters with claws to buy Not A Focus (+1), No STR Minimum (+1/2)...etc?

Premise doesn't seem so simple anymore.

The HERO system, as written, sets the baseline (for the VAST majority of powers) at the broadest effect, not at the "most oft used" effect - which varies from game to game and genre to genre.

The approach you suggest doesn't seem very user friendly at all, as it makes a player sit down at creation and think up every single last possible sFX of adjustment powers in the game, and decide whether his character would be immune to them. Since thats not possible, and takes a relatively long time, most characters will only buy one or two forms of power defense, even if plenty of others are appropriate to their character.

Example: Fire Dude buys power defense vs. Fire/Heat based adjustments, cuz he's made of fire, dude, and also vs. Ice/Cold based ones, because it melts before it can affect him. He gets, say, 15 character points worth of each. During the game, the GM whips out a villain, The Flesh-Melter, and he uses a drain with the sFX "Your muscles turn to putty." Fire Dude doesn't have muscles, but because he failed to consider Flesh Melting as a sFX, the GM is faced with a few options:

1- Fire Dude is screwed, 'cuz he didn't buy the right version of power defense.

2- Let Fire Dude buy the power defense on the spot - course he might not have 15 character points laying around to buy it up to the level he should have it at (all his Power Def is of equal amount)

3- Handwave it, and say that Flesh-Melter's powers don't work on him, cuz, well, they shouldn't, dude. Now Fire Dude has power defense vs. his attacks for free.

None of these seem like very palatable options - Does anyone else have any? I'm sure I missed a lot of them, including "GM laughs evilly and taunts Fire Dude's player as he writhes in incongruent stupor and GM Lightning Bolts him for good measure," But I'm not really interested in non-serious ones like that.

Re: Power Defense

Ahh... I should always type out my full and complete thoughts - because I agree with all of your points in your post, and the only reason we seem at odds is my poor wording.

Steel Self +15 PD - the character tenses his muscles - "Go ahead and hit me". Sounds like PD someone with a corporeal body can shut off.

I thought of that exact same special effect for some PD and almost posted it, but I thought it was obvious that I meant only the PD and ED which are gained from base characteristics. I have also been convinced that you can turn that off - hey, if Steve says so, then it must be. Now I just need to think of how one would go about that.

Also' date=' if I acept your logic, resistant PD (armor or Damage Resistance) should similarly be something not intrinsic to the corporeal body (not everyone has it) and should similarly switch on and off.[/quote']

 

I never said that other powers cannot be "something that is intrinsically tied to having a corporeal body," or made any other comment about them, except that I indirectly said that not every character has them, while every character does have some PD and ED (though I may have been wrong about the PD, and I suppose you could sell them back)

 

Finally' date=' if PD and ED are intrinsic in corporealoty, why are there animals with low STR that have 0 PD, and why can it be Drained or Suppressed to nil?[/quote']

 

I thought (haven't looked for or found anything to back me up) that even with a STR of 0 or less, one still had 1 point of PD. Of course they can be drained or suppressed to zero - intrinsic (with a lowercase i) is not the same as Inherant (+1/4).

 

Iquote=Hugh Neilson]If the specific SFX implies this, then they should have been purchased as "Nonpersistent". I think most of us would allow the character attacked from surprise by a scorpion in his shoe the benefits of both his Unlimited PD (resistant or otherwise) and his Unlimited power defense.

 

I said some sFX imply this, and most of them should use the nonpersistant limitation. And the scorpion example is a poor one, as poisons are built as NND attacks (As much as I hate that and never do it as a player or GM) - but I agree with your premise. It would be as silly to deny someone their power defense because of surprise as it would be to deny them their PD.

 

IMO' date=' there's a substantial difference between "he can turn it off" and "he can turn it on". Extending the logic, where does it say PD or ED cannot be turned off (as opposed to "what would possess you to WANT to turn it off)?[/quote']

 

I agree, there is a big difference...but I don't see your point. I never typed anything about turning them on or implied that they couldn't - that I can see. And it never does say PD or ED can be turned off, I was just stating that base PD and ED gained from STR and CON probably can't be (I was wrong, Steve said as much in a recent question) because I couldn't think of a way how someone could do that in real life - but I guess letting someone stab you in the eyeball would be sufficient. I'm pretty sure my eyeball has zero pd/ed.

 

In short - you're right, and we never really disagreed except over the one overblown point, in which I was wrong.

Re: History of the HERO System

I've always been amused by the 'magnet' incident...

Re: Choke holds & silence attacks (build help)

Glad to hear it, Amadan

And just for the record, I don't hate transforms, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't let a character (such as flesh-warper man) who allready had a broad transform not do something like this, I just meant that when specifically creating this power, I wouldn't use transform. Transform can do a lot of things, but when you have a very specific special effect in mind, it might not be the thing to use.

Good gaming, all

Re: Choke holds & silence attacks (build help)

I guess, I touched a nerve, and I apologize. Not to derail the thread, but I would like to respond to Amadan's questions and statements - I do not mean to be combative or argumentative (well, not much) so I'll apologize in advance if I come off that way.

[DERAIL THREAD]

Since I am set to avoid transforms whenever possible, hopefully I can shed some light on our (I'm going to us that pronoun to refer to us hesitant-to-transform types) reasons for that, and I hope my reasoning is sound to others, as well.

First off, I do not think the sFX of removing someones capability to speak "fits a Transform to a T," whether its by use of a throat-smash, a silence spell, mucking someone's lips together, or putting super glue in the peanut butter. To me when someone tells me that the Agent Smith Trick is best accomplished with a transform, I also imagine the arguments that transform is the 'best' method to accomplish, say, turning someones clothes into a straightjacket or making their muscles wither away. Personally, I'd use entangle and drain for those two, but I've heard Transform arguments for both.

I guess one reason I reacted the way I did was that it seems that many peoples first reaction when creating a power that isn't immediantly and enormously obvious is to use a Transform, when I use transform either when I need some of its specific mechanics, or as a last resort when I can't find anything else to work (I can't think of a time that I've had to resort to transform for that reason, though)

Whenever I see someone suggest that a Transform be used, I ask myself, "Is there any other way that this effect can be achieved using one or more of the other powers?" The huge majority of the time, there is.

So for the silence power, I asked myself what other powers can effectivly prevent another from speaking, either by cutting off their ability to speak or masking the sound. Darkness, Images, and Change Environment all seem to be able to do that, by preventing all hearing, changing or eliminating the sound, or inflicting PER penalties, respectivly. I chose Darkness because it is the only one that makes it absolutely impossible to percieve, where both images and CE allow a PER roll. Unfortunatly, darkness also hinders other sounds, both coming from the target and going to them. Thankfully, thats what limitations are for, and so as long as the GM is willing to accept that Speech Only is an acceptable limitation for darkness, we have a winner - for me, at least.

Now, saying I don't like transforms is going a bit far, I do like transforms, most of my wizards have one or two, I just like to limit them to effects which actually fundamentally transform the target, like some transmutation effects (turning one material into another) and the like.

As for the drain languages, I'd never allow it either - you can't drain a skill.

It most certainly does not make me happy that you suggest that, because it makes you sound petulant, which makes me think I have personally offended and hurt you - which really doesn't make me happy at all. I have never intended to hurt someone on these boards or offend them on a personal level - I make fun of their posts occasionally, but only in jest or to make a point.

Again, I apologize, and I hope this clears up some of the questions you may have about why 'we' think about transforms this way

[/DERAIL THREAD]

PS - Once again, Presdigitator has put it much better than I could have done.

Re: History of the HERO System

Very awesome. As a relative newbie to HERO (I came shortly after 5th edition did) I've often wondered about the history of it, and why some people insist on calling it champions.

Great.

Awesome.

Cool.

Repped.

Re: Choke holds & silence attacks (build help)

that sort of attack is a Transform' date=' IMHO.[/quote']

AAAHHH!!!! Get your filthy transform away from me!

 

Generally speaking' date=' though, the answer to the question is "Darkness."[/quote']

This is the way I would do it. After all, we allready have something that blocks speech - darkness - so we just have to limit it so that speech is the only thing it blocks. No need to get messy with transforms.

Re: The King who Doesn't Know It

I imagined a scenario where the king was kept close to the palace/court, as a squire, cook, guard, or even one of the council members, and was 'informed' of events and asked for guidance while he was asleep or under hypnosis - or maybe through dreamwalking spells.

Re: Potions...what limitation for a potion that expires?

I like Presdigitator's idea - if it ever comes up in our game I may dig this up and suggest it.

Re: Power Defense

Actually that does raise a question. Its generally agreed you can't "Turn off" your PD or ED. Should you be able to turn off your Mental or Power Defense? Say you wanted to let someone read your memories or your energy vampire friend drain a bit your energy to sustain herself?

You can't turn of PD or ED, in my view, because every character has at least 1 point, it's something that is intrinsically tied to having a corporeal body.

Mental defense (and power defense) are not things that everyone has, and their special effects often imply some concious resistance.

Additionally, the description of mental defense clearly states that a character can turn it off if they so choose, and a previously cited FAQ question says the same for power defense.

Re: Choke holds & silence attacks (build help)

'K, this is great for martial artists, but what do we do for a character who wants to be able to do this some other way? Such as via a spell or a super with flesh-molding powers who does that thing Agent Smith did to Neo in The Matrix?

Re: Six-Armed Ginsu Cuisinart

You'll need to buy plenty of skill levels with sweep, as you've noticed, and you'll need to buy two-weapon fighting twice (once for HTH, and once for Ranged). For the extra attacks you can either buy even more skill levels with sweep or a couple duplicates (as was also recommended)

One method I don't think I saw was that you could buy some extra speed, only for attacking.

Assuming that this character has a speed of 3, then buying, say, +6 Speed (only for attacks w/extra arms) would allow you to have 'em attack 18 times per turn at a rate of two attacks per phase, same total as they would with speed 3 at 6/phase. Also, this gives you a bit more flexibility with their actions. She can still sweep for more than two attacks per phase if you want her to, giving her an insane number of attacks, you could also change the limitation on the speed a little and she has a whole lot of extra phases to abort for blocks or other defensive actions.

Re: Choke holds & silence attacks (build help)

Theres always Mind Control: Shut Up!

Some would argue we need to use transform for this.

But I'm pretty sure there is a spell in one of the grimoires written up as darkness to hearing, only to prevent speech (-1, I think)

I'd allow flash to do the same, but without the limitation discount.

Re: Build me a madness dagger

Ego blast or Entangle if the insanity makes you fall to the ground and gibber - effectively unconcious or immobile.

Drain Int if the hallucinations distract you - make it more difficult for you to perform mental tasks, percieve things, make decisions, or not suffer from massive OCD (as per negative INT rules - page 37)

Drain Ego if the insanity makes you more susceptible to mental powers or suggestion - especially if it makes you dance and gibber like a maniac unless you somehow get a better idea (as per negative EGO rules - also page 37)

Drain Presence if it makes you unreasonably paranoid or fearful

Mental Illusions can also simulate hallucinations (much better than images do), but they don't influence how the character reacts to them - which is why I might use a drain int+ego instead.

Mind Control, set command: Be a lunatic. Or something like that

All things I'd rather resort to than Transform. I don't like using transform unless it permanantly changes the target in some way that is not replicable by other powers. So unless it was somehow agreed upon that the only way to make someone insane was to give them additional disads, like psych lims, I don't think I'd go with transform.

Re: Magic VPP variant

For those of us who haven't seen those threads, what are the major cons of doing this? I can't really see any beyond a possible expansion of the abuse which VPPs allow.

Re: Build me a madness dagger

Jumping to transform right away makes me feel...icky. There are so many ways to model insanity without adding disads to the character via transform. I'd only go with transform if the effect is potentially permanant and/or random.

Re: Magic VPP variant

Definitly reasonable, I've been toying with a similar idea for a while. I'd go with the base control cost being 1/2 the AP cap, though, as it is on a regular power pool - that way if someone wanted to have a pool with RC=AP it would cost the 'correct' amount.

So Mr. Cleaver's pool would cost 46 points - not unreasonable since any 120 point power would need an additional -3.75 in limitations above and beyond the requirements of the pool.