Alverant

Re: Campaign cliches we love

Or, the variant that occurs in my games: some team members start out with an active dislike of each other that never improves and annoys everyone else so much we finally ask the player to leave.

 

Of course, those are more clichés I don't love, and so fodder for a different thread...

Been there. Except this was a decent character, it was always the PLAYER who got on everyone's nerves who wound up leaving (after she left I think each of us cheered inside).

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

Welcome to Days of Future Past. I remember in 86 or so when they had the Mutant Registeration Act going on. Same thing writ large.

Except Civil War is suppose to be permenently part of the continunity. Marvel really seems to be reinventing itself. Spider-man's secret ID is known to more people (Stark built him an armored costume and recruited him to be on the pro-gov side). I'm pretty close to giving up on comics, at least Marvel comics, because of this.

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

Worse' date=' Civil War

 

From what's been shown the New Warriors try to take down several villians, including Nitro. He goes BOOM causing a small disaster. Wizard had a 5pg preview and I've seen it on a few sites (newsarama and some place else).

The rumor is several Warriors die including Speedball (who is suppose to be invulurnable.)

The Civil War title comes from when this incident "forces" US government to step in and pass a law that every costumed crimefighter and metahuman must register with the govenment (real name, powers, etc) and get training to become licensed. Half the heroes agree and half do not. So we have some good guys trying to bring other good guys in.

This wouldn't be a bad idea for an RPG campaign if 1) the setting wasn't so well established and 2) most of the heroes were on one side or the other reducing the "rogue element" to a small bunch of "kiss-ups" (pro) or "anarchists" (con). By splitting things right down the middle, you're just asking for trouble and could divide the players. It's easier if they accept things one way or the other and build their characters around that concept.

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

No one has mentioned this title yet (or if they did, I missed it) but I loved Darkhawk. Someone said !mpact was silver-age heroes in the iron age. Darkhawk was the same way (but with an edgier name). I guess I should also mention the Avengers. Would they count since they got their own reboot (read, most popular Marvel characters on one team for no other reason apart from marketing)? Rant warning: I'm getting tired of how Marvel is treating its titles. It's like unless you have an X or Spider in a name, there's a good chance it will be given a lousy writer/artist (see the 6-issue New Warriors miniseries) then it will tank and Marvel Management will wonder what went wrong. To further insult the New Warriors, now I hear they're going to trigger some horrible event this summer which will change the Marvel Universe.

Re: Character Idea: A "Transformer" in Champions

I could see working some Transformers into Champions. Imagine your team just defeated Mechanon. He's about to transfer himself to a new body. But it doesn't work. Right before his body self-destructs he says, "Master please! Give me another chance! Unicron..!" BOOM!

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

Hoping I don't derail this thread' date=' but -- First of all: that book was [i']The Mystic World[/i], and for all we know, it could have been a Jewish or Muslim angel.

I thought it was also in Ultimate Supermage. A lot of the material was carried over to 5th edition. Doesn't really matter. Ultimate Mystic and Mystic World cover most of USM. Also I didn't say what kind of angel it was. They all pretty much have the standard impossible for mere mortals to meet.

Secondly' date=' I stayed away from villains because (a) as a player, I prefer heroes, and ( I usually don't have any trouble finding Generic Evil Christians in role-playing games (go and read any of about a hundred or so old WW supplements for an example). I get as tired of the standard evil bible-banger as I do of the generic murderous Muslim terrorist. ("Why is he a terrorist?" "Because he's a Muslim. And he's a fundamentalist. And he's [b']evil[/b]!")

The idea I was trying to bring up is having a villain who is doing what they think is best and can't quite grasp the fact not everyone has to agree with him. Put this villain in a nice setting where nothing "provokes" him and he'll hang up the tights and stop being a superbeing or even become a helpful person working at a soup kitchen or free hospital. That's what I mean, someone who sees themselves as a hero who is defending their morals. This is "ends justify the means" as well as "means justify the end". I get the impression that the Rapture SG would fight to stop bank robberies, but doing good in that instance doesn't mean their other acts or ultimate goal is good either.

Now' date=' bad guys from any faith or none at all who have actual reasons for their villainy beyond belonging to a religion/philosophy that the creator doesn't like are something else again. That is what you were saying, and I agree with you; the problme is that rather few such characters seem to have a reason other than to illustrate that "all members of Group X are Satan."[/quote']

 

I disagree. First it rarely stops with Group X. If Group X is eliminated, banished, imprisoned there is "all members of Group Y aren't as bad as Group X but is still Satan". Second they can have an agenda greater than wiping out a certain group. For instance in the recent Justice Leage Unlimited episode "Patriot Act" a general takes a super serum to defend America against the Justice League. His agenda was to keep America the most powerful force (militarily) on the planet. The JL is the Group X. His immediate goal was to disolve the JL or put it under US control. Let's say he does so. What then? Well there are other nations in the world that could threaten the US. Things would be easier if we took them over. Then what? Well there are alien civilizations that could pose a threat to Earth thus the US. So he'd start working on that.

 

See my point? There's no reason why a villain with religious motivations can't be as deep as any other. I'd even say they should be deeper since too many villain motivations are more like "have enough money to retire". The problem with doing so is two fold. First you risk offending the readers who are members of that faith. Then you risk having readers who don't see the villain as being evil or even think the villain's plan is a good idea.

Re: Character Idea: A "Transformer" in Champions

Transformers had Headmasters and Powermasters (human partner changed into the engine). If you're commited to a 100% robot, you can have a small android pilot the larger robot. There wouldn't be a need for a big (if any) cockpit. You'd just plug yourself in like the Matrix.

Or you can go with another Transformer gimic, Pretenders. Taking "since when do Transformers conserve mass?" to a whole new level, you have a human shell containing the robot. The shell splits open/disolves/whatever and the robot comes out of it growing to its full height.

It doesn't have to be a large robot either. Transformers had Micromasters and Minicons who were roughly human sized. Sure the cars they changed into looked like something you see on a bumper car rink, but it still transformed.

Re: "Look, up in the sky! It's Super Saint!" Christian-themed heroes

I placed a variant of the Christian themed SG Rapture from the old Elmentals series in my time-line. They were introduced to the public on the 700 club and then a few weeks later destroyed an abortion clinic. My players haven't run across them yet though' date=' perhaps in time.[/quote']

Wouldn't that be considered terrorism, making them villains? That is something that hasn't been addressed here, religious themed villains. I don't mean worshipers of evil religions, I mean fanatics of a good religion who break the laws of man (freedom of religion, press, speach, etc) to enforce the laws of their god. You'd have to be more careful here because you'd have to seperate the extremists from the regular people and not be perceived as attacking that faith. You don't even have to be human enemies. One of the books from 4th edition mentioned an angel attacking a porn shop.

Re: Concepts you wish your players would play

Aaand' date=' bringing this back to the topic: I wish I had players that could play a VPP character, [i']without[/i] the 20-minute soul-searching in the middle of every adventure, hemming and hawing on what VPP powers to select. Sheesh.

If it helps, the best way to cope with a VPP is to have the powers written beforehand. With my gadgeteer, the power slots are explicit. But my other character, who is more versitle, I have generic power listing. First I have a chart of an attack power at highest level with advantages from +0 to +2 (necessary because the VPP is through a OIF). Since it is with a limitation, I already have points for another power. It's few enough points to work on the fly and having a standard list of costs helps. Then I have predefined sets of powers like; full attack, XrPDXrED, Y Flight. If I go fancy, then that's what the entire VPP does and I don't mess with using every single point.

Re: Concepts you wish your players would play

That is curious; my own campaign essentially began as a Mystic Masters type, so there's no shortage of supermages -- for me, it's differentiating them that's the problem.

 

However, I think you should talk to your GM if you're expected to be the "transport" for x-tra-D adventures. In many cases, GMs will allow PCs to pool points to purchase a team base or vehicle, for example. I'd suggest that he allow you to do the same for some means of extradimensional movement. I allow PCs in my game to purchase Equipment (= "artifacts") in this way, so they can have an assortment of Mystic Orbs, Magic Mirrors, Gates, and whatnot to get around. Should take the pressure off of your own points.

 

As for focusing your character's attention more on magic... do you have a Multipower, or a VPP? Best ways we've found to have mages that can whip up a new spell relatively quickly. As a supermage, you shouldn't be just an energy projector -- you should be the energy projector will all the Advantages you'd ever need. Slots with Affects Desolidified, BOECV, Variable Special Effects, and the like aren't going to be available to most energy projectors. If you add in some Adjustment Powers you should start to look different from those other characters in no time.

 

My other suggestion would be to define what type of magic your supermage uses, if you haven't. Generic Dr. Strange / Dr. Fate type supermagic is rather bland. But a Hermetic hagiomancer is really going to stand out. Not "oh, another ankh-bolt", but "yikes, he's calling upon St. Michael's sword!"

Well part of the problem is that Mr.GM isn't exactly prompt on responding to email. He often forgets and when he does remember, his replies are often short. Strangely enough, he has time to send jokes and funny pictures to everyone. I could talk to him after a game, but they last so long I'm too exhausted to do so.

My supermage is a technomancer. He's got some unusual spells. The problem is he gets treated like Bruce Lee by other mages. (Mr.Lee developed a new style of martial arts he was ostrasized and demonized.) This spilled over into the supergroup itself and is getting a bit old. The character himself is becoming more discouraged. His original goal was to legitimize and define technomancy. I have split it into 3 parts.

Scimancy, magic based on bending (not breaking) the laws of science. For example since mangatism and electricity are related, he has a spell that channels Earth's magnetic field into an electric blot. Likewise by changing H-bar (a constant in quantum mechanics) atomic nuculi destablize and fly apart.

Urban Magic, best way to put it is the city version of druidic magic. In the Hero books this includes the spells Smog Alert, Dereliction, Urban Renewal, and Kiddie Spacegun of Doom! Basically magical pop culture references.

True Technomancy, technology and magic working together. This would technically include enchanged swords and armor (primitive technology is still technology). Modern-day examples include enchanted PDAs, cell phones that can call up people's minds or other dimensions, and cars running on fire elementals.

I have so many ideas for spells, I should have a VPP. It's the big thing I want to check with the GM about. Fortunately I have experience in VPPs with another character so I won't be abusive.

Re: Concepts you wish your players would play

The potential problem I see with having only one team mystic, is that in other-dimensional adventures (which is a big part of Mystic World) you'd be relied upon to provide a way home. That level of Extra-D movement is expensive and a stop power so technically you shouldn't put it in a power framework. On the other hand, you'd have the problem of being under-used, becoming an energy projecter with a mystic slant. That is what is happening to my own supermage. I want to focus his attention more on magic, but the GM has been slow to come around.

You have to be careful about stepping on the other players ideas, but your own has to be workable in a campaign. Since you're going with the mystic idea, I suggest a defender archtype. Someone who stays on Earth most of the time and defends against extra-dimensional beings. Any dimensional travel would most likely be local (Babylon, Fairie, etc). Because if you make a character who wants to explore the outer planes, pass the veil, etc it would be hard on the GM and the non-magical characters.

Re: Hindu-themed hero

This is an interesting topic. Does anyone know of any website I can go to so I can learn more about the eastern religions? This for academic, not spiritual, reasons. As a whole American society doesn't know much about them. There's some big differences, the nature of divinity, good and evil, afterlife, spiritual growth, cosmology, how they get along with other religions, etc.

I'm also wondering if a Champions player in India ever said to his/her GM, "I'd like to play a character based on the Christian saints."

Re: Was watching Superman TAS and wondered about Mxyzptlk

The voice in Supes TAS was perfect. I see him as a comic relief, someone you have to outthink rather than "punch until bloody". In an RPG, he's a plot device without stats. He's perfect for the superhero who takes himself too seriously. And being the most powerful hero on Earth, he's a perfect match for the most obnoxious higher being.

Re: Was watching Superman TAS and wondered about Mxyzptlk

Just curious. If Supes thought that winning was the way to get rid of him' date=' why on Earth didn't the Flash throw the race? Was he mind-controlled or something?[/quote']

He told Superman, not Flash. The better question would be, why didn't Supes tell Flash?

Re: Concepts you wish your players would play

I'd like to have a blind PC in one of my games. The challenge would be fun.

We have one in the campaign I'm in and the GM keeps forgetting he's blind. Several times we've heard phrases like "you see on TV" or "in your book of magic you read" (there are no braile versions of ancient magic grimores) or "look over there" or "you get in your car and drive". Personally I think it's a bit of a pain, but it's not my character. The player wanted something different and this is what he wanted.

Re: Campaign cliche: The demise of the Champions

In a campaign I'm in now, we started out as novice heroes, some of us just got our powers. The city's current supergroup recently vanished. At first we tried learning what happened and establishing ourselves as a defacto-superteam. Not an easy task when the GM is throwing new things at us. Three later we only found out what happened to half the members. Plus only about half of us have the superhero mentality. The other have have different motivations. For example my character is a scientist/sorcerer first and spends more time doing research than patroling the streets. Another character has been described as having "the mentality of a 5 year old with ADD and on a sugar rush" who'd rather watch Sponge Bob and Kim-possible than almost anything else.

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

Only if you're using bad action movie plotting. IRL, there are multiple and separate reasons why this scenario is as implausible as heck.

 

{snip}

 

As well as a new problem... the aliens cannot plausibly misinterpret one lone idiot with a backpack or terrorist-built nuke as an official attack by the government or governments of Earth, given that said governments have a much bigger and better nuclear *arsenal*, and don't have to go for the improvised or pony bomb in a bucket approach.

 

Like, if half the US Navy attacks me, I can be quite sure that the US government authorized it. If six sailors in a patrol boat shoot up my waterfront, it is much more plausible to assume that six guys have just gone nuts, as opposed to immediately leaping to the conclusion that the President has ordered a strike on my coastline... 'cause if he really had ordered one, well, he's got a lot more than six guys in a patrol boat.

I appreciate your point of view, but I was pulling the "nuke" thing out of the air. But you're assuming it's one of our nukes that gets launched. China, Russia, India, France, and other countries have their own nukes to use if they feel threatened. They may not have the same safeguards we do. Don't forget, a leader has a tendency to include like-minded people in his cabnet. Plus people can be tricked. Someone who is fanatically anti-alien could manufacture evidence and convince the right people of its validity. Since there's a state of emergency, we'd have the choice of striking first or get destroyed as we check for more proof.

But they're not restricted to nukes. What happens when an ambassador gets murdered? It's what triggered WWI. Check the news, if a lone cartoonist can be the catlyst of national threats then a lone kook with a big mouth could cause uneasiness which leads to a "preemptive strike" on us. If China attacked first the rest of the world is guilty of association. If humans demonstrate the willingness to use such weapons then it's better to take care of all of them first. After all the aliens have been through, who knows what little thing could set them off. An easy victory can raise troop morale.

My general point was that the plot could go that we started the war and got our butts handed to us. Say there was just 3 small ships initially. Someone gets the idea they'd be easy targets. Then the rest come at the worst possible moment.

Finally there's no reason why the aliens couldn't manufacture the evidence we attacked first as a propaganda machine.

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

To put my own two cents worth, I have some ideas for some twists in your campaign.

1) Earth started it. If aliens were unknown on Earth (or plausibly deniable) then the sudden appearance of clear proof that Earth and humanity is not special would throw a lot of strongly held beliefs into question. When that happens, some people will go to any length to defend them. It's possible in such a situation a rogue general tried to put a nuke on one of the alien ships. The armada retaliated and decided we were barbarians who needed to be reeducated or annihilated.

2) The aliens want us to join them. In a galactic example of battered spouse syndrome, the aliens are telling us they did what they did for our own good and that we deserved it. And we'll continue to be punished until we come to our senses. Some of the other races were treated the same way and are now a bunch of submissive yes-people to the bigger ones. If both ideas are used, they would have manufactured an excuse instead of receiving one.

3) The aliens used bio weapons that triggered mutations, intentionally creating superbeings they could then dominate mentally into their grunts. But an unknown factor in human DNA makes us more resistant to their mind control. The scattered alien fleet does not have the resources to go to a Plan B so its not fighting at top efficiency.

4) Not all the aliens agree. The initial assult might have been started by someone with a hot head and committed their forces without permission of the rest. The resulting power struggle and political maneuvering is leaving Earth under the sword of Dameclues (sp) when it's decided Earth will either be left alone or destroyed. How the characters act would determine what that is.

5) This was actually a plot of a book by the guy who played Quark on DS9. Earth was on the verge of developing a technological breakthrough that would have been a threat. The aliens attacked to destroy the device. This device would have literally destroyed the planet (it somehow makes a sun explode, that's where the Orion, Crab, and Horsehead nebulas came from). They decided it was better to have 2/3s of the human population destroyed than 3/3s and themselves. Now they have to institute order to make the best of the situaion.

Re: Mystic Masters campaign (old vs. new)

I haven't checked out the rule changes in 5th ed, but I think Multiform would work as a substitute for Duplication. The player still only has one form active at a time, it's just that the other form is still tangible (but helpless) when activated.

It still suffers from the same problem I have with Duplication, reduced XP. If you buy a skill or improve your mental stats you also have to buy it for your Asteral Form. Even if it's a skill you can't use in Astral Form, you should still buy it unless somehow the character looses the knowledge when he goes Astral. For example let's say we have a high powered mage with a 60 STR TK and the Hoist skill. The TK is not bought for the Astral Form, but the mage would still need to buy the Hoist skill because he still knows the best way to lift things and would be able to coach other people if they can hear him.

With that in mind, is there some rules loophole that lets you Mind Link with your unconscious self so your Astral Duplicate (not Multiform) has access to all your knowledge?

Re: Using Supervillain Psych Lims

Some utterly evil villains are also clever. If they know they'll die if the hero doesn't save them' date=' they will promise the moon to save their lives. The promise is, of course, a lie. An utterly evil villain won't hesitate to lie to save their life. The smart villain will let the hero save him THEN kill the hero. Chantal, for example's main weapons were her great beauty and feminine wiles. She could probably play the damsel-in-distress in an Oscar-winning way, only to backstab the hero literally and/or figuratively once she knew she was safe and his guard was down. I think that any hero who trusts a villain he is dangling over a cliff is rather foolish if he believes the villain's promises. Especially since the villain can probably safely assume the hero would never actually drop him anyway.[/quote']

 

I think that issue was address in the old "Things I would do if I was an Evil Overlord". The idea was the villian WOULD spare the hero if the hero saved his life. Not out of any higher ideal, simply because it encouraged similar behavior in case the Evil Overlord was ever in danger of imminent death again. Plus occasionally keeping your word keeps those do-gooders guessing.

 

But your right, being totally evil and the hero knowing you're totally evil is a disadvantage then. Heroes are smart too, if they know the villian would attack the hero the second the villian was safe, then the hero is more likely set up a video camera and a lawn chair then help. I'd say you not only need a total "Code vs Killing" but a similar disad to intentionally rescue someone you know is so evil. Unless you have an alternate reason for saving the villain like he has information you need or you want to bring him to justice.

Re: Mystic Masters campaign (old vs. new)

Is there any chance this is a PBEM campaign? I love playing super-mages and other magical characters (yet don't read much swords/sorcery fantasy books, go figure). I'd like to join if it is.

Re: Using Supervillain Psych Lims

That gave me an idea, if a villain expects the worst from people then he can be tricked. The "rebel" heroe can stage an arguement with the team leader when the villain is watching ending with "That's it, I'm quitting! You can fight him without my help!" Then the villain wouldn't suspect the rebel sneaking around from behind for a surprise attack.

In the villain write ups (especially mystical bad guys) I often see psych lims like "Irredeamably Evil". So how is that limitating? How can that be used against a character like a "Code of Honor"? Do you have NNDs with the defence being "having a spark of goodness in your soul"? Do you bait traps with puppies hoping your evil target will go out of his/her way to kick it? Do you raid a morgue to bait the cannabil you're trying to capture? If a "Casual Killer" is holding hostages, how is it hazardous to the villain? I was under the impression psych lims are meant to impeed a character but I don't see how that works with evil ones.

Re: Dr. Destroyer monologue

Has anyone created their own Dr.Destroyer monologue they're willing to post here? They need that in Villainy Amok 2, example dialogues for egotisitcal villains. I guess Googling the speaches of some of history's tyrrants would help, but who wants to get into trouble with the NSA?

Re: Mystic Masters campaign (old vs. new)

What I like in the new one because it's more developed, but only if you don't include the Ultimate Super-Mage from 4th edition. They still developed it more in 5th and that's a very good thing (except for the lack of a bibliography).

One problem with 5th ed is that it took so long to get an idea what asteral form needed. Plus it is extremely expensive (and impossible to get if the GM has an active point campaign limit) especially since you have to pay an advantage to get the asteral form different than your original form. Spending 75 points (or even getting it for free) is just simpler and involves less number crunching.

Would it really have been that hard for them to have "Base Asteral Form" character sheet in one of the books? How about a download for Heromaker?

I wish they did keep the "No Range = -1" limitation for mental powers though. Since mental powers have LOS and no range penalities, having no range reduces their usefulness more than standard ranged powers.