feywulf

Re: Images or Shapeshift?

I would say that Images with self only -1/2 would be best.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Changing The Phase Of The Moon

Originally posted by D-Man

Bingo!

 

Dramatic effect. It makes for a cool scene.

And i did state that dramtic purposes is one possible reason for it. However, while the moon appearing through parting clouds is dramatic, so is the full moon suddenly coming out of a lunar eclipse, when it was supposed to be on the other side of the earth in the new phase of the moon.

snow storm may have other benefits as well, limiting mobility of the attackers, while werewolves may be able to handle the snow better.

If I used "CE: Gravity" it would kill the effect by assuming there was a purely scientific explanation for a completely supernatural effect.

I wouldn't think that CE:gravity assumes a purely scientific explanation. The supernatural effect could still be there in why/how werewolves respond to the combination of a certain gravity field and a certain kind of light. You could call it CE:"tidal gravity field that a full moon produces" if that makes you feel better.

Re: Re: Re: Changing The Phase Of The Moon

Originally posted by D-Man

I wasn't asking how to build or dispel a snow-storm.

 

I was asking how people would go about changing the phase of the moon, which is separate from snow storm, and has more mechanical possibilities in game terms.

I didn't think you were asking how to cause or dispel a snowstorm, i was just addressing a hypothetical situation, which might be irrelevant, but it seemed relevant to me.

You might have noticed that i did address how to change the phase of the moon in the second paragraph of my first post in this thread. Bartman appearently didn't.

The vamps picked their time carefully. If they were too look up and see a full moon they'd decide to play another day - so the storm has been summoned to hide that little fact from them.

 

And - I did actually know that the earth's weather doesn't effect the position, and hence phase, of the moon.

Then why bother with dispelling or turning off the snow storm? If its not the light of the full moon then leave the storm clouds in place or let it fade normally once the attack begins, the werewolves will get the benefits anyways.

Since they are aware that an attack is coming and thus have time to prepare what must be a huge spell, why not prepare the spell but wait to set it off until the attack comes(or at some point after the battle gets underway)? A full moon mystically materializing in the sky might look weird and be less dramatic than it shining down through parting clouds, but it could appear as if coming out of a lunar eclipse. Unless the snowstorm has some other benefits for fighting a defensive battle, using it to hide a moon summoning that doesn't need to be hidden(except for dramatic purposes), it puts extra strain on the anathema's spellcasters for no reason.

This sentence from your initial post indicates that the light of the full moon matters, although the tidal effects may matter also. "Once the vamp attack is fully engaged and the vamps are getting the impression they are routing the opposition the storm will stop, the clouds will part, and the moon will be... full." The highlighted text implies that the effects of the full moon won't be present until the clouds part.

Originally posted by D-Man

Presumably there is some strage efflugence of mystic energy that comes from the tidal flux of the moon when its full? In many occult sources it attributes varying energies to various phases of the moon.

 

I don't think the images idea is an invalid construct insofar that your base assumption is the effect is due to the light, and not some tidal or mystic force that's coming into play.

Using images does depend on the assumption that the light of the full moon is the cause of the effect, which is why both Oruncrest and i asked what it was about the full moon that affects werewolves.

If it is the tidal forces, then CE:gravity field would work, though you may want to add images:"full moon in the night sky" for story or laws of magic purposes.

Re: Changing The Phase Of The Moon

Originally posted by D-Man

I've been pondering how to build something. In all truth its the sort of thing I normally hand-wave and declare "plot device" over, but every so often my long dormant, but virulently potent munchkin-master blood gets pumping. I've been pondering how to build something.

 

How to change the phase of the moon from a game mechanics perspective. In my PBEM vampire game one of the clan's has brought in their Justicar, a force of about 40 archons, and some other big guns, to wipe out a group of anathema (three methuselahs and an abomination who has drunk the blood of an antediluvian).

 

The anathema have werewolf allies (anitaverse style shapeshifters) so the vampires intend to strike when the phase of the moon is in their favor (in my game werewolves do not suffer from their silver vulnerability under the full moon - yech!). Unfortuanately for the vamps the anathema know they are coming and have prepared a little suprise for them.

 

They have conducted a ritual that will bring in a heavy snow storm (and hide the moon in the process). Once the vamp attack is fully engaged and the vamps are getting the impression they are routing the opposition the storm will stop, the clouds will part, and the moon will be... full.

If the snow storm only hides the moon, but the attacking vampire's have access to a lunar calendar, they can still tell what the phase of the moon is at any time, unless it is actually changed. If the attacking vampire's are stupid enough to attack when the moon is actually full, but can't be seen because of the weather, then they deserve what is coming to them. In this situation, it would just be a CE:heavy snow storm and either a dispel or CE:clear sky.

A snow storm doesn't affect the phase of the moon. It would block most of the light being reflected by the full moon(some UV radiation might pass through the clouds). In your game, what aspect of the full moon affects werewolves, the full moon light, or the tidal effects, or both? If it is tidal effects then the snow storm has no effect on the werewolves, and a localized CE:gravity field could create the tidal influence the werewolves need. If it is full moon light, then the vampire's could cast a spell summoning an illusion of the moon in its full phase position that can actually reflect sunlight back down thus being a full moon(but without mass and thus not causing tidal waves)and then dispel or turn off the CE:snow storm, or they could use the full moon light technique that Vegita used the first time he fought Goku which was invented by Goku's dad.

Side effect, gradual transformation into reptilian being. They shouldn't have to spend points for the early benefits, but they won't get any back for the later disadvantages.

You could write up a chart of package deals that list the abbilities throughout the progression from normal to lizard, and the corresponding ammount of transform body that determines which package deal is in effect.

Since method 1 uses a universal focus, i think it doesn't need usable by others.

One way you could do scrolls is to build them as independent oaf slots for a multipower that a mage buys without independent or oaf.

A Mage buys a "talent" for casting magic as an MP, and maybe has a few spells for it as well. Then the mage collects spell scrolls to diversify his spell library.

Really powerful spells on a scroll could be a problem, though you could fudge it buy buying part of the spell as an MP slot, and the rest payed for normally. A strong spell may have the bottom 20-60 active points bought in a slot, and any mage with a large enough MP to cover that portion of the spell's cost can attempt to cast it. The remainder of the spell's active point cost should be heavily limited, as any powerful spell should be, but doesn't get the cost savings of being in a multipower slot. Since such spell scrolls will be independent equipment in a heroic campaign, the cost doesn't really matter, except as a guide for game balance.

I've used costs END only to activate before. It is how i did "stable" shapeshifting in 4th ed. I bought 0 END persistent, and then got a lim costs to activate, though now in 5th you'd just use the advantage +1/4 only to activate.

If your mages use MP or VPP slots, then the problem of permanently turned on only to activate end spells will be less frequent. At some point they will have to turn it off to cast something else.

One possible solution would be 1d6-2

1d6-2min1

1

1

1

2

3

4

12/6 = 2

Or 2/3d6

2/3d6

1 = 1-0

2 = 2-0

2 = 3-1

3 = 4-1

3 = 5-2

4 = 6-2

15/6 = 2.5

Clerical magic or divine magic is one of the tricky subjects in fantasy settings. How to handle it depends on what a deity is in a particular world. In some stories, and in computer games such as Populous, a deity's power grows the more followers they have. Presumably each worshipper donates some of their spiritual energy to their deity through worship. Normally one wouldn't bother to write up stats for this abbility, but i think that this abbility might be related to how clerical magic would work in such a world, so i wrote it up.

pts worshipper
--- ---------
1  10 END for deity's divine energy END reserve
     ranged +1/2, transdimensional +1/4, usable by other +1/4
     only usable by deity -1/2, only when praying -2
     1b 2a 0.5714r
1  1 Rec for deity's divine energy END reserve
     ranged +1/2, transdimensional +1/4, usable by other +1/4
     costs end -1/2, only usable by deity -1/2,
     only when praying -2
     1b 2a 0.5r
1  ks:theology/mythology of the faith 8-
2  3pts spend on deity's vpp or mp
     ranged +1/2, transdimensional +1/4, usable by other +1/4
     only usable by deity -1/2, only when praying -2
     3b 6a 2r
5  total

The 5 point cost could be offset by a psychlim disadvantage regarding obedience to the tenets of the faith. People of stronger faith could by a larger worshipper package with a correspondingly large disadvantage. The transdimensional UBO connection would be formed

What does this have to do with clerics? All clerics are worshippers, so all clerics would have this package(most likely the largest most devout variant of the package). But a cleric would by off the limitation "only usable by deity", and probably spend more points on the divine power framework than what the disadvantage gives back. If the deity's powers are built in a multipower instead of a vpp, then the cleric would need to buy spells in mp slots also.

I'm not sure if the only while praying lim should be on the END of the endurance reserve. In order for UBO to work, line of site must be maintained, so persistent might be needed as well, but line of telepathic sight should work, and if a deity were to have a massive constantly maintained mindlink to all of his or her followers in order to hear their prayers...

Does this package need anything else to work? Does it have more than it needs?

There is one other benefit that can be had by putting limitations on powers in an MP, but only if every power in the MP has those limitations(exception for the charges limitation). In that case you can take the limitations on the price of the MP pool itself as well as on the powers bought in the MP slots.

Re: Re: Healing & Regeneration

Originally posted by Arthur

1d Healing. Fixed Effect 1 BODY. Persistent, 0 END (+1); Reset Time 1 Turn (+1.5). Self Only (-1/2); Extra Time 1 Turn (-1.25); Heals no STUN (-0.75).

 

Active Cost: 35

 

Real Cost: 10

Reset time? What exactly does this reset time advantage do?

Your write up looks very similar to the regeneration option for healing, but with unecessary add ons.

healing spell:

heal body 2d6

concentration 0 dcv -1/2, extratime:1 turn -1 1/4,

gestures & incantations -1/2, rsr -1/2

20base 20active 5real

healing potion:

heal body 2d6

oaf: potion fragile expendable -1 1/2, independent -2,

1 charge -2, charges don't recover -2

20base 20active 2real

skill to make healing potions:

heal body 2d6

trigger(drink potion) +1/4

oaf: potion fragile expendable -1 1/2,

concentration 0 dcv -1/2, extratime:1 hour -2 1/2,

gestures & incantations -1/2, rsr -1/2

20base 25active 4real

Considering the differences in the limitations and advantages used in these examples, you could with GM permission define the abbility to make scrolls of any known spell like so;

naked trigger(read scroll) +1/4

oaf: scroll fragile expendable -1 1/2,

concentration 0 dcv -1/2, extratime:1 hour -2 1/2,

gestures & incantations -1/2, rsr -1/2

X base X*0.25 active X*0.25/6.5 = X*1/26 real

To have this abbility work with a spell of up to 60 base points would require 15 active points of trigger for approximatly 2.308 real points. Thats very inexpensive, perhaps too inexpensive, though the time to create and the costs for the materials to create the focus do limit it. UBO might be the better way to go, but the focus limitation already allows the power to be used by others, so UBO is not the way i would do it.

Unless the scroll only detects one particular alignment, you would want to add discriminatory.

Depending on the flavor you want clerics to have, you could say that there is no difference between divine and arcane magic. If a cleric wants to cast spells, then he or she can learn the wizardly arts.

Another alternative is to say that clerical spells aren't cast by the cleric, they are cast by the cleric's deity. This way, the cleric doesn't buy any spells, just the power to commune with their deity to ask for a divine aid.

Assuming that a deity has a gigantic mindlink to listen to the prayers of all of the deity's followers, all a cleric needs is to make a presence attack to get their deity's attention, and then ask for a favor from their god. The god doesn't have to answer the request, or provide the kind of assistance the cleric wants, and sometimes deities are busy warring with the dark side of the pantheon, or battling other supernatural threats.

Another style would be to have clerical magic be the result of a cleric slowly transforming into a divine being through worship and basking in the presence of their god. The cleric spends exp buying the parts of the divine being package, and when they get to a certain point, the 'angels' come down and escort the cleric to a higher plane, leaving behind the mortal realm.

Clerics are a subset of a deity's followers, and you may want to formalize the relationship between a deity and his or her followers with a package. A follower would buy a small psych or social lim, and spend the points they recieved from it on powers for their god(usable by others at range, transdimensionally, only one other can use the power, only usable by other). Divide the points up between adding to the deity's vpp, and end reserve. A cleric would buy the "worshipper of deity" package, but might buy off the "only usable by other" limitation and spend points to give the deity more power than a regular follower.

Depending on how loyal a cleric is, their deity could lend some of the deity's vpp to the cleric, as the cleric is most of the time lending their points to the deity to give it more power and strength.

Can shapeshift be partially turned on to represent shifting shape part way?

For example, if there was a mutant named Mr Blue with one "super power" which makes his skin blue instead of normal human color, and he bought it at the basic level 1 form visual change, could he partially turn his power on and be 50% blue, or would he have to buy an advatnage or increased number of forms adder to get the option of intermediate shapeshifting?

If he would have to buy something extra, what would that extra thing be?

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Yeah, I could see linking this to shapeshift IF there were some limitation involved with shapeshifting itself.

A limitation such as most people who see you in a non-human form having a gut reaction to grab a burning torch or pitchfork and run you out of town and/or kill you. The shapeshifting could also have extratime, and increased endurance cost and/or limited charges per day.

For my weres i have their powers bought with only in "hero id", "hero id" being defined as shapeshifted into were-form.

Again, the multiform suggestion assumes there are advantages to both extremes -- something that isn't true for She Hulk, if I recall her properly.

With multiform, there doesn't have to be an advantage to each form, though there usually is. For She Hulk, there are the social advantages of not being an undisguisable 7ft tall green amazon some of the time. Its easier to hide or blend in if you look like an ordinary person.

Originally posted by TheEmerged

I didn't explain myself sufficiently, let me try again.

 

If I understand what the original poster is asking, it's for something akin to the ability of some Marvel weres (I'm drawing a blank on the names here: Wolfbane or something like that?) to have two extreme forms with intermittent forms with advantages of each.

Wolfsbane does have that abbility with her shapeshifting.

My question wasn't specific to cases where the alternate form has different powers. If there was a mutant named Mr Blue with one "super power" which makes his skin blue, and he bought it at the basic level 1 form visual change, could he partially turn his power on and be 50% blue, or would he have to pay more to get the option of intermediate shapeshifting?

An example with abbilities linked to alternate forms, would be if She Hulk could partially hulk out, or just hulk out part of her body.

I made the (possibly inaccurate) assumption that there is a reason to be in either extreme form. One (failed) example of what I *think* is being asked for is the Sir Galahad writeup in European Enemies.

 

What I was suggesting was a Multipower that uses variable slots instead of the usual "ulta" slots -- like the following

 

60 pt Pool (60)

12m +60 STR (60 active)

12m +20 DEX (60 active)

 

A character with such a pool would have two extreme forms -- one with +60 STR, and one with +20 DEX. The character could also "mingle" the forms by assigning the points in a less than absolute fashion -- +30 STR +10 DEX for example.

Would those slots be linked to shapeshift(one linked ot when shapeshift is turned on, and the other linked to shapeshift being turned off), or do you agree with Bullseye's statement that physical changes can be part of power activation?

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Generally, I wouldn't allow a "partial multiform". What you're talking about sounds a lot more like a Multipower with Variable slots instead of Ultra slots to me.

Multipower? Generally multiform isn't allowed within multipowers, and multiform has a built in method of representing different forms so a multipower with a number of multiform powers bought in it would probably not be the way to go.

Inbetween forms could be represented by buying extra forms, but having 3 inbetween states isn't as valuable as having 3 additional totally different unique forms with different powers. Having a dozen incrementally different inbetween forms would cost alot if bought as 12 extra forms, and wouldn't provide much advantage over having 3 inbetween forms.

Multiform is probably a discrete on or off power, but i think shapeshift should be a power that can be partially on. If shapeshift is ruled by a GM to be a discrete all the way on or totally turned off power, then to get transitional forms you could buy the adders for up to 4 different forms(+5) or limited group(+10). Its not a huge deal as far as price goes, but i was curious as to who thinks transitional forms should be a default feature or not for shapeshift.

I've got a werewolf character who can be in human form, werewolf form, and any number of transitional inbetween forms.

In the beastiary werewolves are built with multiform. I tend to build them with shapeshift(with the adder for a limited group of shapes to represent inbetween forms) and powers only in "hero id". Some powers can be turned on partially, while some are either all the way on, or all the way off.

So my question for the hero community is this: As a GM would you allow shapeshift or multiform to be turned partially on to represent inbetween forms, or would you make the player buy an adder or advantage to get that benefit?

Given that the Transform power causes partial appearance changes without an adder, and partial stats/powers changes with an advantage, i would probably have multiform work in a similar way, but shapeshift doesn't cause stat changes, so it might be different.

Re: Re: Dedicated

Originally posted by Mavnn

c) Buy a Multipower like the VPP above. Buy each materia as a fixed slot.

 

Advantages: Price more in line with other abilities, new materia can be added for a small number of xp.

 

Disadvantages: It costs xp to pick up and use a new materia, and you can't just toss it over to a friend (unless they've paid the xp already). Adding high AP materia may require you to increase the multipower reserve, which will be expensive.

How about a multipower with independent slots? It still ahs the disadvantage of high ap limits, but so does the vpp, and then you solve the disadvantage of costing xp to use new materia.

Then again, it might make sense to have to train with a materia before being able to use it correctly. The materia could include a lower powered non MP slot version of its power to represent the untrained level as well as an independent slot.

Originally posted by Ndreare

262: Healing 20D6 +20 from death, +5 includes limbs, Standard Effect Rule +0, 0-end +1/2, Self-only –1/2, Trigger whenever I take Damage +1/4

Instead of buying heal as reverse normal damage, buy heal body. 3 active points of body per d6 with standard effect is 1.5 body. Then you only need 14d6 of heal instead of 20. This is assuming that the character doesn't go below negative max body. You'd want to buy some regeneration to quickly heal the body that is restored by this triggered heal so you won't be hampered by the active point limit on how much a heal can heal.

That brings up a questions. Does the regeneration option on healing heal 1 body and 3 stun per d6 like simplified healing with standard effect? Or should it only restore body but do 1.5 body(3 active points) per d6?

Originally posted by slaughterj

To match your tangent, I think Force Field is too cheap (for FH).

If you are using restrictions on END for spells, such as an END reserve with limited recovery, then spending END every phase makes it a bit more expensive. If you allow them to buy the reduced END advantage, that solves that, but then the active points has gone up, and makes it harder to squeeze the spell into an MP and still be able to cast other spells.

Another effect of a low cost on force field, is that it is easy to dispel. If an apprentice mage can shutdown your defense spell, thats a bitshameful. I'd buy forcefield with at least 1 level of difficult to dispel.

I agree with mattingly on not letting forcefield stack with armor, and the limitation for making all attacks against it be penetrating isn't a bad idea to try.

With priests, the easy way is to define the healing power as not being bought by the priest, but purchased by their diety or an angel, which the priest "summons". Another way would be to have certain powers only be available to those who specialize the correct type of magic.(ie healing isn't available to wizards, but a wizard/priest would have access).

You could give specialty limitations to powers if the mage is of the correct type, or require mages not of the correct type to have additional advantages.

If wizards have to buy reduced penetration on their healing, they have to buy twice as many dice to be able to heal as much as a cleric.. or if a wizard has to buy multiple levels of difficult to dispel, then he can only squeeze so many d6's of healing into the actve point limit of his multipower.