OberonGX

yes yes! thats exaclty what i thought when i read it all! i saw that in the package deal you spent points to raise you maxima and thought to myself, how is this helping any? im glad to see that others figured this out... it seemed really dumb to me... hey, the person who responded first is that guy who debugged the zodiac characters in a campaign im currently running... cool... so on an off note, thanks for helping out there as well...

ok, i already asked steve about this here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3788 and i didnt quite get the answer i was looking for... so ill aks everyone this time: ok, this is proabably a stupid question and might be more rellevant for the fantasy forum but i was having an arguement and it quickly began to become heated over this. If you buy a package deal which contains a rise in your char maxima does this also mean your base value has increased and hence you dont have to pay points for it? example: lets say the GM permits a race of super strong orc/dwarf half breed which contains a CHAR maxima of +10 STR. this would mean that one could pay 1 point for strength all the way up to 30, yes yes? ok. so where does he start at? what STR doe he get for paying for the package and spending no points at all on str? i thought it was 10 (same as usual), meaning the package really only affect the maxiam not the base. the GM thinks other wise and you START out at half your maxima; 15 STR for free! (the point being its really NOT free since you have to buy the package). Then i brought up the point in the 4th Ed. fantasy hero book that the sample character seem to pay for ther CHAR based all on startting out at values of 10... then i seemed to have won the arguement but then something on page 13 of the book (right before dwarves) seemed to contradict how the sample char are made: it breifly seems to say that the average person of the race starts out 10 below the maxima... so in this example a orc/dwarf half race would start out at 20 STR! they'd have to buy the package containing 10 points to raise the maxima but then start at 20? but if thats tru why are the sample chars in this book paying points? like the dwarf sample char. has a raised char max, but pays 3 points for a 13 STR... Mr. Long then responded with: "No. There are no provisions in the 5E rules for raising Characteristic Maxima breakpoints via Package Deals, since there's no equitable way to handle that in terms of cost and application. The GM could certainly change Characteristic Maxima around if he feels like it, but that's a campaign ground rules thing, not a Package Deal thing. Thus, if you had an Orc Package Deal with +10 STR, that just means all PCs who buy that Package Deal start the game with 20 STR. If such a character wants to buy any more STR, he has to pay double for it, since he's already at the Maximum of 20." no, I wasn't saying that the package gave you a +10 STR but gave you a +10 to the MAXIMA so you wouldnt have to pay double until you were at 30 (instead of 20). but i guess the 5E has changed all of this... what I AM asking is what the BASE char value starts out at (i.e. what do you get in that CHAR if you pay for NO points into it)... does it start at 10?, does it start at half your maxima?, or 10 below your maxima, or is your BASE increased by how however much you increased the maxima? or what?

see topic... ok, this is proabably a stupid question and might be more rellevant for the fantasy forum but i was having an arguement and it quickly began to become heated over this. If you buy a package deal which contains a rise in your char maxima does this also mean your base value has increased and hence you dont have to pay points for it? example: lets say the GM permits a race of super strong orc/dwarf half breed which contains a CHAR maxima of +10 STR. this would mean that one could pay 1 point for strength all the way up to 30, yes yes? ok. so where does he start at? what STR doe he get for paying for the package and spending no points at all on str? i thought it was 10 (same as usual), meaning the package really only affect the maxiam not the base. the GM thinks other wise and you START out at half your maxima; 15 STR for free! (the point being its really NOT free since you have to buy the package). Then i brought up the point in the 4th Ed. fantasy hero book that the sample character seem to pay for ther CHAR based all on startting out at values of 10... then i seemed to have won the arguement but then something on page 13 of the book (right before dwarves) seemed to contradict how the sample char are made: it breifly seems to say that the average person of the race starts out 10 below the maxima... so in this example a orc/dwarf half race would start out at 20 STR! they'd have to buy the package containing 10 points to raise the maxima but then start at 20? but if thats tru why are the sample chars in this book paying points? like the dwarf sample char. has a raised char max, but pays 3 points for a 13 STR... man i hope that 5th ed. fantasy book comes out on schedule....