Sammael
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Posts posted by Sammael
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Re: Question: What makes a team leader?
The only time I've personally witnessed a formal assumption of leadership is when the GM has specifically demanded a leader be picked. Otherwise the various parties have each been more a band of heroic individuals working toward similar goals rather than a cohesive squad commanded by a squad leader. I don't recall any of those declared party leaders ever having any credentials for the position beyond accepting the position. Further, I would have to say that, in the main, the leaderless parties ran better than the ones with official leaders.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
How are the villains getting away if they're caught so often? Wouldn't say that they're the stupid ones.
Aha! Butterfingers! 
Yeah, well, there is that. Aren't the villains lucky their opponents are also a little ... limited. -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
FYI that was a personal sentiment' date=' not really a game/comic consideration. I get why they do it in the comics it just always struck me as really really stupid.[/quote']Well, if villains weren't a little stupid (we could kindly say limited) they wouldn't get caught so darn often, would they? If, after having failed to destroy a superhero a couple score times, wouldn't a rational villain choose a softer target and move on? Why stick with the bad bet?
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
The difference in handling villains (both for the writer and the hero) is perhaps the main difference between DC and Marvel. DC have villains who are evil, but who generally go after the hero first in order to take over the world afterwards. The DC hero is a target, and accepts that role in order to protect the innocent. As such the DC hero only has to survive and then defeat the villain without having to kill them because he's only going to go after the hero before innocent people.Marvel villains have a goal, and the hero is just another obstacle in the way. The Marvel hero has to fight to protect the innocent because they are in real danger. The Marvel villain makes the hero think maybe it might be necessary to kill the villain to protect the innocent, but would only do such a thing as a last resort (unless it's the Punisher who does it right off the bat, or Wolverine who'll do it if no one is looking).
Ah. In that case, my villains will have a bit of Marvel in them. Not a lot, but a little. Enough to surprise, I hope.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Honestly while you are correct that it is the Golden Age Mentality I never understood or agreed with it (any more than handing the bad guy your gun when he has a hostage).If the person you are fighting is willing to kill innocents you have to take him out first. Otherwise he will just kill you while you are saving said innocents and those innocents will die anyway (and potentially MANY MANY more)
Not particularly "in genre" (and oddly enough even some GrimDark settings have allowed Heroes to be this foolish and not die for it) but still odd.
Edit: commenting on Cassandra's post about Villain tactics.
I think this is a more modern sensibility. More pragmatic, less heroic. Shades of grey versus four-color, maybe?
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
VPPs, like all powers, can be controlled by set limits on active points allowed in characters building.For 60 Active Points you can have a 40 point VPP which requires a Power Roll and at least a half phase.
Exactly. As a new GM, I'm loathe to treat any part of the rules as broken. I'm still comparing it to the Multipower, but I am curious about the VPP.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Let's say you have a Hero and a Villain who have the same powers. In a fair fight the Hero would have at least the same chance to defeat the Villain.The Villain would not fight fair. Instead of attacking the Hero, he threatens a group of innocent people putting them in peril. The Hero can attack the villain while they are doing so, and gain an immediate advantage. The Hero can't, however, as innocent people are in peril, and must put themselves in a vulnerable position in order to save them. The Villain now takes advantage of the situation, and attacks the Hero.
That's how the game is played.
JLA heroes all the way! It's a more difficult way, but more satisfying too. Or was that frustrating. I forget.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
re: VPP'sAt a minimum it's usually a good idea to put some sort of special effects limitation on what powers a VPP can be used for. This is fairly easy for many established comic book characters (Green Lantern-ring, Batman-belt, Superman-Alien) but others can present more of a challenge (Zatanna-magic, Martian Manhunter-Alien). The more open the special effect the more important a pre-built list of approved builds becomes as well (if only to speed up game play by preventing unwarranted power construction during game sessions).
re: the term "Cosmic" when talking about VPP's
The term "Cosmic" has always been a source of confusion in HERO VPP's. It is a special effect (Galactus, Silver Surfer, Green Lantern, etc..) but it also refers to the combination of the VPP specific Advantages "No Skill Roll Required" & "Can Be Changed As Zero Phase Action". It's important to not confuse the 2 different uses. A VPP with the Cosmic Advantages still needs to have a special effect (sfx) defined. This of course can be Cosmic like a herald of Galactus but it is usually much more interesting to assign a far more limited sfx (ex: Magic, or Utility Belt, Malleable Body, Kryptonian Powers under Yellow Sun, etc....).
Yeah, I can see the wisdom in pre-defining powers and focusing on a theme where you can. I accept that, sure.
But as for your take on "Cosmic", I submit the rule found on page 122 of Champions Complete, it is the last sentence in the final paragraph of the second column, under Variable Power Pool: "Typically, these powers are linked by common Special Effects, such as 'gadgets,' 'magic,' or 'mentalism.'"
And, of course, "typically" would - by definition - mean "not always." Still, I can't argue the VPP would be more interesting (and flavorful) with a more defined special effect.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Again, this is an NPC so some of the following may not apply.There are 2 main issues with VPP's, and cosmic ones crank the probl-o-meter up to 9.
1. If you aren't careful they can bog down a game. Cosmic especially means that this character can whip up any power at any time she wants it, to suit any needs she may have. The problem is that building a new power takes time, and if you have to stop the game for a while to build out that power that you REALLY need right now the pace of the game slows to a crawl. You can alleviate this problem somewhat by requiring a list of useable powers to be generated and approved before hand but that basically results in the VPP becoming a Multipower with ALOT of slots (potentially) and you can still loose game time while flipping through all the powers to find the one she wants to use right now. Realize that at 90 real points she could have a 30 Point Multi-Power pool with 20 slots for the same cost/effect if you do not allow building powers on the fly.
2. It can be very difficult to reign in players with VPP's (and if your NPC's have them some players may be upset if they are not allowed to have them). 30 points doesn't sound like much, but with it you can do sooo many things, take advantage of Limitations, Susceptibilities, weaknesses, etc. In the hands of a savy player and a lenient GM they can easily become "I win" buttons where almost nothing stops them. Make sure you know exactly what you will allow in a VPP before you unleash them on a group or you may be surprised what comes out. RAW they are almost not restricted at all
Well, psyber624, you've done me a great service here. Some of this stuff would be very painful to learn within the context of running a game and being advised of these issues prior to reaching the gaming table is quite a boon. Thank you. I have some hard thinking to do. It is possible that I might need to alter my position on the VPP.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Not bad. I don't recommend VPP's for new GM's/Players, especially not Cosmic ones. Also others will shoot me down here I am sure but you should probably define some form of limitation for the VPP if you intend to use it (such as earth based powers) unless you intend for her to be able to use ANY power with up to 30 AP.26 rPD/ED is overkill. That ignores standard damage rolls from up to 7d6 KA (105 AP/21 DC, way outside your campaign range which would seem to be around 70 AP 14 DC based on this character). However 31 PD/ED total vs Normal attacks is on the low side for a Brick if you are using 14 DC. Average defenses for a 14 DC campaign would be 28, Your brick will take, on average, 18 Stun from a Max DC attack (requiring 5 attacks to be KO'd based on your stun). I would convert some of the rPD/rED to extra normal PD/ED to put your total defenses up slightly (35-40ish seems about right to me, opinions may differ) for your brick. This would also make autofire basically useless against your character (14 DC cap yields about 9 DC of AF (5) or 11 DC of AF (3)) which to me is one of the hallmarks of a brick. Also I agree your CON is WAY too high, right now it takes a 72 damage roll for this character to be stunned which will never happen. 14 DC yields a standard 49 DEF + CON to avoid stunning on an average roll. 60 total should be more than enough to protect you from most attacks.
Finally this character is a melee specialist (only able to do ranged by throwing something) and yet you have no movement power at all, so she can only do a base 12m run per phase. You also have only 1 CSL and a max OCV therefore of 9, so hitting anything beyond 8m will be nearly impossible (especially with throwing modifiers if you are using those in your campaign). This means that she will be basically helpless against any form of ranged combatant. Either more CSL's or some form of movement power is called for.
Now, one caveat. You stated that this was an NPC, designing NPC's with glaring weaknesses or overblown strengths in their bailiwick is just fine, as long as you are aware of what you were doing. The advice I presented here is targeted at combat usefulness for a PC specifically. Nothing wrong with leaving things as they are for an NPC if this is what you intended.
Thank you for your detailed critique, psyber624.
This is great and way better than I have a right to expect. I knew Rocks would be revised when I made her and she'll certainly see some changes after reading these posts. 
I'm leaving the VPP as written, because that is her flexibility. I do want it to be able to do as much as possible within the limits of 30 points. I thought she'd use her VPP for her enhanced movement needs, among other things (and is part of the reason I went cosmic). Is this not a good idea?
At 90 real points, she's going to use the heck out of her VPP.
Otherwise, well, ok then. Resistant defenses will be reduced as will be her CON. PD/ED will be improved. I'll look into improved mobility as well. Good stuff here in this forum, yes indeed!
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Mastermind's MinionsFollowers: 16x 150+ Disadvantages
50 Points
Mind Control 10d6
50 Points
Money: Filthy Rich
15 Points
Bribery
Conversation
Oratory
Persuasion
Seduction
SL: Overall +1
Cost 25 Points
Armor +15 rPD +15 rED
Cost 45 Points
INT 20
EGO 20
PRE 20
COM 20
Cost 45
Mental Defense +10 Points
Cost 10 Points
Total Cost 250 Points
Taking over the World
Priceless
Very Cool. Thank you, Cassandra. This is something I've not seen in Champions Complete so far, a detailed example of creating minions.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Qualifier: Only my opinion. 50 CON is on the highside' date=' as written she is not stunned by a 20d6 attack on avg and it looks like your campaign avg will be less. Raising PD & ED will make her less vulnerable to small attacks. As I read her defenses she has 21PD/ED. That makes 8d6(high powered agents?) a true nuisance and leaves her paticularly vulnerable to 8-10 die autofires.[/quote']Thank you, Grailknight. Very edifying. That would not be a good thing. For the record, though, Rocks has up to 26 rPD/rED and another 5 PD/ED.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Heroes and Villains can be built on the same points, you just have to remember a couple of things. One, heores worthy of the name have rules of engagement. They don't fly into a room and punch the first person they see in a costume. They have to give the villain a chance to surrender, thus giving the villain a chance to attack or spring their death trap. Even Batman takes the time to observe whose the villain and whose the victim (as in the Dark Knight).Villains tend to be unbalanced with heavier attacks and defenses, and few non-combat skills. Most heroes will have skills needed to track down villains, and villains will be working for a mastermind who has the skills needed to trap the heroes, even if they need to employ minions because of a lack of combat power.
Minions! I love minions.
Good advice, too on the ability to do unto your foe. Thanks. Most of the villains will be built at the same level as the heroes and I totally agree about the differing tactics and niceties employed on either side. -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Word of advice.When Building character abilities with a lot of limitations always try to use the savings to broaden the scope of their abilities rather than increase their high-end maximums.
I tried to follow this concept with my JLA builds whenever possible (ex: Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, etc..). With Superman this meant not skimping or bypassing RAW on Super Senses. With the 6e version of Green Lantern (ring as AI follower) I literally had points to burn so I decided to alter the Ring to require users to invest points in skillful used of the ring which helps differentiate Hal Jordan using a Ring vs. someone with no Oan ring training like Batman with one. This was a type of team balancing as other characters like Wonder Woman are actually quite difficult to get within a similar budget as Superman since 'normally' most of her abilities have no 'Limitations'. I had to go the focus route with many with the long term idea being that future XP could be spent to buy off the foci lims (ex: Hermes Sandals of Flight - the Gods deem you worthy of these gifts directly).
Thank you, Hyper-Man. I like the sound of your advice.
It looks like sound advice! Truly, this is what I'm looking for. And I like your write-ups!For the record, though, if this were a character I was going to play, I certainly would not build her so that the theft of two small rings would take all of her powers away. She's a support NPC that'll sometimes be around. She's like Strength Incarnate and if she's controlled through mental powers or if one of her rings get stolen, it gives the PCs something significant to handle. Think of her as an ally and a work program.
Or a powerful DNPC, taken for no points. -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Looks like you're doing fine. I might lower her CON by 10 and add 5 to PD & ED but that's a minor thing . Just keep your builds consistent within your campaign.Good news, thanks.
Now, pray tell, what would lowering CON and raising PD/ED do for the character? I'm all "ears". -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
ahem ....... back to topic......... so sammael has your project made any progressWell, sure, ayinde, though maybe not as quickly as some might wish (and I wish to tender my apologies ahead of time, my life being what it is, this is not going to be quick). I've been doing a metric ton of reading, with the help of this forum I've been setting campaign point levels and ground rules and doing supplementary readings, and now, finally, I've drawn up an initial draft of an NPC.
The Champions Complete rulebook tells me that bricks are often the easiest characters to make, so I figured that was the place to start. This particular 400 CP brick is Anna Dunbar, or Rocks Anna, as she is known when she is "working". She is a Senior Geologist working in Oakhaven, Michigan. She earned her doctorate in Geology from the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology in the Black Hills of South Dakota, where she fell in love with spelunking while exploring the Jewel Caves. She was spelunking around the Black Sea when, in a particularly deep cavern, she discovered what looked like the petrified skeletal remains of some oddly put-together humanoid and two rings carved out of crystal. When she put them on she was overcome and passed out. When she awoke, she found her body had crystalized, her skin suddenly rock-hard and no longer a freckled pinkish-hue. She now looked as if she had been carved out of granite and she was far stronger and heavier than ever before.
Her powers come from these two rings. One is the red-crystal Heartstone ring and the other is the black-crystal Soulstone ring. The Heartstone ring enhances her characteristics by imbuing them with the essence of the living Earth. This enhancement is further increased if she's actually touching the ground. The Soulstone ring, is a magic ring.
Anna Dunbar ..........Rocks Anna, not touching the ground* ............Rocks Anna, touching the ground**
VAL ....COST ............VAL .....COST .................................................VAL .....COST
20 STR 10 .................45 STR 25 ......................................................70 STR 25
13 DEX 06 ................13 DEX 0 ........................................................13 DEX 0
20 CON 10 ................35 CON 15 .....................................................50 CON 15
18 INT 08 .................18 INT 0 ........................................................18 INT 0
18 EGO 08 ................18 EGO 0 .......................................................18 EGO 0
13 PRE 03 .................15 PRE 02 ......................................................15 PRE 0
05 OCV 10 .................06 OCV 05 .....................................................08 OCV 10
05 DCV 10 .................06 DCV 05 .....................................................08 DCV 10
03 OMCV 0 ................03 OMCV 0 .....................................................03 OMCV 0
04 DMCV 03 ..............04 DMCV 0 .....................................................04 DMCV 0
04 SPD 20 .................04 SPD 0 ........................................................04 SPD 0
05 PD 03 .................+12 rPD 18 ....................................................+14 rPD 21
05 ED 03 .................+12 rED 18 ....................................................+14 rED 21
10 REC 06 .................20 REC 10 ......................................................35 REC 15
40 END 04 .................60 END 04 .....................................................80 END 04
10 BODY 0 ................20 BODY 10 ....................................................29 BODY 09
22 STUN 01 ..............48 STUN 13 ....................................................84 STUN 18
Powers
Heartstone ring: *OIF (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4) 125 Active Points / 71 Real Points; **OIF (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited: Only when touching the ground (-1/4) 148 Active Points / 74 Real Points. 145 Total Real Points.
Soulstone ring: Variable Power Pool (Cosmic Pool) 30 Base + 30 Control; Powers can be changed as a zero phase action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), OIF (-1/2) 120 Active Points / 90 Real Points.
Talent: Striking Appearance (beautiful), all characters 3 CP.
Perk: Wealthy, $3,000,000 8 CP.
Skills
12- Bureaucratics 3 CP
12- Charm 3 CP
12- Climbing 3 CP
Combat Skill Level, All Combat 10 CP
13- Deduction 3 CP
12- High Society 3 CP
13- KS: Caverns of the world 3 CP
13- KS: Geology 3 CP
13- KS: Scientific community 3 CP
Language: Catalan, completely fluent with accent 3 CP
13- Navigation 3 CP
13- PS: Geologist 3 CP
13- Systems Operation 3 CP
12- Teamwork 3 CP
Complications
DNPC: Slightly Less Powerful, Infrequently, Unaware 10 Points
Hunted by Circe, who wants the rings: More Powerful, Infrequently, Harshly Punish, NCI 20 Points
Physical Complication, Weighty: Infrequently, Slightly Impairing 10 Points
Psychological Complication, Code vs. Killing: Common, Total 20 Points
Social Complication, Secret Identity: Frequently, Major 15 Points
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
I think that if you're starting a campaign all the characters, both player and non- would have to be built on the same level. Maybe a few higher point characters as examples. If not you get an endless point arms race and we end up with a mutual assured destruction of a campaign because you've to the Penguin creating his own realities and dating Wonder Woman, and Emma Frost joining the X-Men and making them all transgendered.Oh, wait, they've already done that. It's called the New 52 and the New Universe.
The way I'm planning it at the moment, it works out as you suggest. While I think there'll be some individuals at a variety of point levels in the world and in association with each other (you know, like the JLA), the local area where the PCs will be based (city of Oakhaven) will be 400 pointers as will be the largest percentage of Super-NPCs in general. I'm hoping this simplifies the learning process.
And what's wrong with Emma Frost?
She can visit Oakhaven any time she wants! -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Not exactly that' date=' but: [b']Mr. Goodspeed[/b]Thank you, Killer Shrike. I've favorited the website.
Plenty of food for thought. I love the flying base. -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
I can do a lot of things on 250 points. But if I'm the GM I don't have to. Points are for players' date=' silly.[/quote']You do have a point. I probably need the training wheels (points) at the moment, but maybe later....
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
You can build a Batman with the vehicles and still keep him at 250 points.Or rather, you build Bruce Wayne with a Multiform 4x 250 Points (Batman, Batmobile, Batplane, and Batboat). Then you either use powers to simulate the vehicles (my preference) or buy vehicles themselves.
This is a cool idea.
It's different. It gets the job done in its own way. I like it: Batman as Transformer. It gives me an idea! A Batman-type mechanical character that really transforms! -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
I see nothing wrong with a 1000 point Luthor.The "modern" version is "guy with an organisation" par excellence.
The Mad Scientist version had bases all over the place, plus all the robots, death-rays and gizmos you can eat.
The Lexor battlesuit version could go toe to toe with Superman.
More to the point, though, most of Superman's opponents are much less powerful than him, or at least more narrowly focused. In addition, a 1000 point Superman would be much less powerful than you might at first imagine, since he has his points spread over such a massive range of abilities.
Likewise, Batman would have some really Awesome vehicles, but he wouldn't be wildly better in a fight than a much cheaper specialised martial artist.
There's a reason why you can build the Flash on a relatively small number of points - he's a highly specialised character, who does one thing extremely well.
Nah, because the Joker always loses to Batman. Combat-wise, he's kind of a wuss. The Joker is just a themed plot-device-of-the-week character with followers and an evil plan. He's never actually gonna beat Batman.Batman spends loads of points on vehicles, bases, contacts, skills, gadgets, followers, and other stuff like that. But he doesn't really hit that hard and his defenses aren't high.
These quick character dissections really catch my attention, as much for the technique as for the results. Very educational.
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Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
I'm just saying that if you have a 1000 point Superman or Batman you're going to have to have a 1000 points Luthor and Joker and then the NPC become ants and you lose all humanity and might have well be the Authority or some character written by Alan Moore.That makes sense. It also sounds like a potentially interesting change-of-pace storyline too, right? Maybe to be followed by a turn at playing the villains.
Mostly, to me, it sounds like more work. -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Personally I'm most proud of Batman's EB 5d6 AE One Hex VSFX [Any]. He can't use any of his movement powers while using it but it's effective against speedsters or those with shrinking' date=' and can be anything from Magic to Kryptonite to Lasers to Sonics.[/quote']He is chock full o' features!
I did not fully appreciate this entry until you pointed it out. Sweet! -
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Glad you have made good steps in creating your campaign so now I want to see what you have been able to flesh outEh? I have created a campaign?
For Champions? Wow, now I know I'm good! Have no fear, I will soon have something for show and tell. I'm still designing her, but I will submit a superheroic NPC named Rocks Anna for review.
Aha! Butterfingers! 
Yeah, well, there is that. Aren't the villains lucky their opponents are also a little ... limited.
Or a powerful DNPC, taken for no points.
It's different. It gets the job done in its own way. I like it: Batman as Transformer.
Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
in Champions
Posted
Re: Justice League-type DC/Champions campaign. Advice, please.
Sadly, Champions Complete does not have the Elemental Control power framework. Still, I like your creations and you know what? Champions Complete does detail a "Cord of Honesty" so I can directly compare your versions against each other and against their version.
Very enlightening.