Catseye

Re: The book I want more then any other....

Also... when ever I make an absoltue statement, you cna assume there is an asterisk on it.

Under *certain* circumstances with *very* well known and trusted players i might actually delegate work. But thats a relationship that has to come from a good deal of play time together first.

As a very wise GM once told me... "If you are unsure ALWAYS say NO. If you change a no to a yes later, no one minds. But lord help you if you have to change a yes to a no..."

Ground rules of my games are that I build the charcters in consultation with the players over what they want to play. Its also worth noting that my games are structured very much like Con games in general.

And Derek s right, these guys are brand new to the system.... otoh frankly very experienced players tend to concern me *more* unless I know them very well. Newbs seldom know enough to seriously abuse the system.

Re: The book I want more then any other....

I've generally found that letting people make their own characters with as much or as little help from me as they want has always been a pretty good hook to get them interested in the system.

Sure. And I'm sure it works for some kinds of players very well.

OTOH the number of players playing games with limited and canned selections far out numbers the HERO players today, so certainly its not the ONLY way to interest players.

For my players, Im demonstrating the flexability it gives them in conception, and the ability it gives me as a GM to meet those conceptions as well as the flexibility it gives me to build different kinds of games. Those that are serious system wonks I hope to capture with the idea that they can build and run THEIR own ideal game.

We'll see what happens.

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

 

In this character's case it is probably not worth much (as a disadvantage!); I don't remember it coming into play that often (but then, I saw a lot less of the X Files than I might have liked. Sometimes I do wish I had a TV....only sometimes though.)

It was central to a couple of sub plots. The all knowing Wikipedia can fill you in.

The character may have a COM as low as 12; the actress has at least 18, probably 22 (and Distinctive Features and/or Social Limitation: Most Beautiful Woman Ever to Star in a Television Series.)

lol Beauty, they say, is in the eye of the beholder.

**insert obligatory DnD joke **

Okay,

I have to write up a stock character for a player who hasnt given me any input.

This is literally an ANY genre mixed-genre game. To give you an idea (and luckily m,y players don't read this, because they don't know each others characters yet) these are the characters I have in the game so far:

Agent Dana Scully (X-files)

Piper Halliwell (Charmed)

An original punisher type ("Dark Champions" genre)

Scooby Doo (one of my stocks for anyone else who shows up)

If it were any other player Id give him one of my fun stock characters, like Scooby Doo, but this guy is pretty limited in what he can identify with I think. (Young, geeky, over-serious.)

I know generally what Im looking for... scientific type, dour, very intelligent, very serious, preferably Asian, ideally Chinese.

Can anyone think of an Anime or movie character that would work? My one limit is that it can't be over angsty. WoD characters don't fit in this game, nor do Anne Rice Vampires, just tom give you the parameters.

Any suggestions?

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

And indeed, in my write up, Scully's EGO and presence are both very good 8)

ndeed, if a GM ever insisted on building an entire Character for me I would walk away from their table. After insulting them.

 

I've worked with GMs on building Characters. I've played in games where the GM does the initial build then worked with me afterwards to perfect it, but I have never once allowed a GM to create a charater For Me unless it's a Convention Game.

Not an uncommon attitude among existing west coast HERO players.

Interestingly enough, when we were playtesting the original Champions in the midwest back in... (counts on his fingers) oh I think it was about 81, is that right?

Anyway there and then, exactly the opposite was true. Although a Gm might work with a system experienced player on details, your first character or two the GM drew up himself.

We almost *never* let even experienced players sit down at the table with characters the GM hadn't had a controlling hand in creating because we learned from very early experience that the potential to abuse the system was all too present and we didn't want the game to turn into a meta-game of who could abuse the rules the best.

To me, HERO has always represented a toolkit for building my game... but as the GM it is *my* game. I'm happy to take input and help you to get the character you want to play, but I'm not turning over the central control.

As I say, I am aware from experience with some of you out there that the West Coast has a very different perspective. In that sense, its nice to be working with new HERO players who don't come with preconceptions about what the game is about.....

I WILL RAISE AN ARMY IN MY IMAGE AND CRUSH YOU ALL!!!!

Oh sorry, Champions villain moment.

Re: The book I want more then any other....

Really? Because it sounds like a menu for players' date=' to me. .[/quote']

 

ahhhh yes.

 

Okay, I keep forgetting. A lot of people use the system differently then I do. I don't let my players go shopping for powers, etc through the book. I have them describe to me what they want to play and *I* build it.

 

Factoring that in, I begin to see where a number of these arguments come from.

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

The palindromedary notes that Lucius seems to be confusing the actress with the character, and kicks him soundly in the head.

I have this vauge feeling that you and I were on the UW-Madison "Dartboard" at the same time in our distant past.... would that be correct?

Re: The book I want more then any other....

One last quick comment... to be fair Derek, I think this is too narrow minded...

"In other words, giving a character the high-level label of "honorable" should be the end of the process... not the beginning of it. You should look at the completed, well-developed character and say, "These character traits, taken together, describe a guy that is honorable." Not start with "This guy should be honorable, so what would an honorable guy be like?"

"

Inspiration can come from anywhere. Some of my deepest and most interesting characters have in fact come by starting with the limits a game's mechanics handed me and my asking the question "What about the character's personality could justify this?"

As long as you do the character depth stuff, I don't think ordering is really significant.

(As a note, this is the same reason I dislike diceless or nearly diceless "story-teller" type systems. My story telling thrives on having the unpredictable happen and then incorporating it into the story. )

Re: The book I want more then any other....

The problem with The Ultimate Disadvantage that I see is genre balkanization. Just as an example:

 

...

But this is also true of modifiers... the old "if its not a limitation that can come into play, it isn't worth anything" rule.

I don't see that as a problem, myself. The whole point of a book like this is to give suggestions to the GM, not dictate rules.

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

oooh thats good. Something a GM can do ANYTHING with 8)

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

Btw... a number of you guys would hate my write up.

I only gave her a 14 COM. IMHO she's very cute, but shes not drop dead gorgeous. What i think your actually responding to her presence, which I gave her 16, and her intellect, which is 18.

Re: Disads for Dana Scully

I think you'll make people mad if you say being Catholic is a disadd...how about Devout instead?

For your last 15 how about Subject to orders?

Well... it was short hand for "adhears strongly to Catholic theology." Its as much a disad as being a skeptic... its a limitation on your POV and what you can accept. It also IS somewhat limiting on actions. You might consider those good limits... but then again most of us consider "code against killing" a good limit too-- and it counts.

I'll expand it just to make it clear.

Subject to orders is really good... but I'm torn between that and "Higher Moral Standard: Must protect innocents over herself."

Thanks guys.

Re: The book I want more then any other....

Oh... PS....

I DO like Derek's idea, though I think its a seperate issue to a large degree. I also think the right qualifications to really write such a thing are hard to come by.

Lets be honest, most RPG fiction (fan, game, or professional ) is hack crap at best.

FWIW, though, such resources already exist to some degree in the writing community... written by people with the background to command some respect in the space.

eg http://www.writepro.com/

Re: The book I want more then any other....

So....

What *I'*m hearing here for the most part is this... correct me if I'm wrong

(1) A nice big list of suggested disads already exists on the web

(2) People agree that what is in the FReD really is insufficient.

(3) People wan't MORE then just an expansion, but a bit of a rethink/redesign to make disads really reach their roleplay potential and lose the image of "how 2 m@k3 ur ch@r@ct3r teh suck"

Well, I can't say I disagree with any of that. 3 is more ambitious then I was asking for but I agree it would be a very very good thing.

As for #1... I really want an offline reference. Has anyone made that site into a PDF?

Re: The book I want more then any other....

Thanks for the pointer to the fanbook.

I gotta say I disagree with Steve on a number of levels.

(1) Is there really any market data that the existing Ultimate books ar bought by anybody other then HERO players? I look at an "Ultimate" and I see a resource for using/adding to/twisting the HERO rules. I can't imagine non HERO players buy them. If so, I'm at a loss to understand why. Settings books maybe, Ultimates? no.

(2) Well, Steve, thats the value to US now isn't it? yes its a pain, which is why we want your help. Besides, think of it as a challenge. How can YOU write a disad book that *isn't* boring? I have faith you can...

(3) I TOTALLY disagree there. HERO players *have* to take disads. Its a lot more fun for player and GM if there is more variety in them then if its just the same old hunted/berserk/DNPC crud.

People who actually play HERO for any length of time learn a fundamental truth of story telling... it may be the powers that make a Hero a Hero, but its their disadvantages that make them *people*. And thats what makes stories interesting-- that they are about people.

In short Steve, I think you do the Hero player community a great disservice here-- you make us sound like were all desperate ego-gratifying teenagers.

(4) Sure I've given the idea a lot of thought... and come up with very little. Which is why I want your help on the subject. Honestly, its the weakest part of the HERO rules even to this day and desperately needs some expansion and fresh insight.

Okay, I'm stuck... this is what I have so far...

Psychological Limitation: Skeptic (Common, Strong) [Notes: Must try to find a rational explaination for any non-religous phenomenon.]

Psychological Limitation: Catholic (Uncommon, Moderate)

Hunted: Watched by the FBI 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)

I need 50 pts total. I'm short 15.

Help?

The Ultimate Disadvantage

No, this isn't a single book sized disadvantage. Rather its a shopping list of sorts. Comign up with disadvantages is always one of the hardest thinsg for me, buit I also think theya re very important.

I would imagine this book would have things like interesting examples of typical (eg NSA)and unusual (eg Demons) hunteds complete with hunter write ups and background info. Examples of lost of different physical limitations, psych limitations, etc...

In general just put a few of the creative brains at HERo together putting together all sorts of examples disads with as much interesting variation as possible.

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

Righto, and i think it does that great. I'm going to use yours as my "full charcter sheet" for my players I think.

But my "action sheet" is intended purely as a supplemental aid to make it dirt simple for them to learn the basic mechanics.

As I said, different goals 8)

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

Okay, image is attached below. Remember, work in progress.

The OCV/DCV scales down the side are for tracking current plusses and minuses. Each player gets two red paper clips to mark negatives and two green ones to mark positives

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

So, i looked.

Its a nice design but it isn't doing what mine does.

Mine is JUST the core action info, expressed in an easy to use way in

big, friendly type. (Its should have DONT PANIC! on it somewhere )

Its a work in progress but Ill scan a picture of the current version and post it

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

Have you gotten the export format from the Vault called "Design for Convention Games"?

Nope, ill; grab it and see how it compares with mine, thanks 8)

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

No go. FRED revised specifically says Charges applies to the MP, not to the slot:

page 321.

Though this rule also, it turns out covers my earlier question about charges over an entire MP. Its a special case and has no addl lim value (aw)

Found the answer to this one too, however. Its logical, if ugly:

What you do is find the difference in lim value btw the multi power charges lim and the continuing value and just add that as an advantage to the slot.

Which leaves me with one last question.

Normally an MP is switchable as a 0 phase action. What if you can only switch under certain circumstances. Does it make sense to use the same modifier values as is used for "only under special circumstances"? Im guessing an uncommon circumstance would be -1 ish? Is there any canon on this already?

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

Okay I THINK i resolved its AP.

New problem. Think about the arrow quivver again.

One of the arrows lets say is a smoke arrow. I want to buy continuing

with it, but other powers wont take continuing.

What do I do? the Charges is over all of the arrows, but the continuing is only on the smoke one....

Thanks

Re: Rusty Hero (Dumb q)

oaky another stupid Q/reminder please... cause oddly enough I can't seem to find it in the FReD even though it must be there....

Assigning reserve points to slots in a multi power. (Assume its an ultra for a moment.)

Is the cost to activate the slot the Active points of the power or the Character points?