Stochastic

Re: Catalyst: A Champions campaign on Hero Central

I'm sure Zac and Fed will provide lots of meaningful, mechanical feedback, so I'll just chip in with the subjective friendly advice:

 

I think the character would work better if the absorption fed into something other than his defenses. As a super-power it's one of the most passive, not mention one of the most potentially unbalancing. You're always going to be either glass-jawed or untouchable, and neither one of those is really any fun.

 

Just my two cents.

 

~Gabriel

hm k, sounds good.

What about :

Cost Power

30 Psychokinetic Barrier: Armor (10 PD/10 ED)

35 Instinctive Psychokinetic Field: Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing)

13 Instinctive Psychogenic Field: Healing 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4)

15 Kinetic Field Control: Elemental Control, 30-point powers

10 1) Psychogenic Inversion Field: Absorption 4d6 (energy, Critical Mass), Can Absorb Maximum Of 32 Points' Worth Of Energy Damage, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4) (30 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Visible (-1/4) [Notes: Red sparks around body, emenating from the source of the impact, as Inversion absorbs.]

10 2) Psychokinetic Inversion Field: Absorption 4d6 (physical, Critical Mass), Can Absorb Maximum Of 32 Points' Worth Of Physical Damage, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4) (30 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Visible (-1/4) [Notes: Red sparks around body, emenating from the source of the impact, as Inversion absorbs.]

15 3) Psychogenic Shield: Force Field (10 PD/10 ED/5 Mental Defense/5 Power Defense) (30 Active Points)

15 4) Critical Mass: Density Increase (4,200 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB) (30 Active Points)

Density Increase, so that he can still walk through walls and such (Because he's massive)?

But that leads to a big problem in terms of the Inversion Field pumping it up.

The Full Power critical mass would be

0 Mock Full Power Critical Mass: Density Increase (34,603,000 kg mass, +95 STR, +19 PD/ED, -19" KB), Custom Adder

Maybe the problem is that I'm linking Absorption to other powers? What if I just linked the Physical damage absorption to his CON and the Energy damage absorption to his STR?

That would still be +15/+30 at max, respectively. I kind of liked the idea of a character that "charged up", but maybe thats better left to video games, as I can't seem to make it seem reasonable.

Or I could have them effect his regeneration! How about that? So, if it doesn't kill him outright, he'll probably recover from it?

You think that's overpowered? Hm. Thanks for being a sounding board though, by the way. Are you playing in the thebes game or are you in the other one?

Re: Catalyst: A Champions campaign on Hero Central

Hi. Okay, so because you already had a guy named blitzkrieg, I retooled the character, now Erik Kriegs alternate identity is Inversion. Personality wise he's still the same.

But I'm kind of stuck. I gave him light defenses to start off with, but then two pretty powerful Absorption powers, that will make his powers grow as he gets hit.

I nixed the recursive absorption, it seemed like it was going off the deep end (by my math, even with a +1 1/2 adder, 5d6 absorption pool was turning into a 10d6 absorption pool, after four iterative applications of the maximum absorable value. They should make a limitation where you can effect the absorb character point ratio - that's really more what I want - to fall off by exponents or something. Like, the first "main dice" do it at a 1/1 ratio, then the next iteration do it at a 1/2 ratio, then the third iteration absorb character points at a 1/4 ratio.

Anyways, that was getting too convoluted, so I tried just making it a smaller pool of absorption with the adder to increase the max pool size. But still ending up not with what I want. His defenses become too strong and his offense is too weak to really hurt anyone.

Anyways here he is. Should I maybe just buy him to whatever defenses I want him to be, and then only link the absorption to his offensive ability/abilities?

Eric Krieg

Player: Revision 1

Val Char Cost

25 STR 15

18 DEX 24

18 CON 16

18 BODY 16

13 INT 3

14 EGO 8

18 PRE 8

16 COM 3

5/55 PD 0

4/54 ED 0

4 SPD 12

13 REC 8

60 END 12

40 STUN 0

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

5" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 125

Cost Power

30 Psychokinetic Barrier: Armor (10 PD/10 ED)

35 Instinctive Psychokinetic Field: Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing)

13 Instinctive Psychogenic Field: Healing 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4)

15 Kinetic Field Control: Elemental Control, 30-point powers

15 1) Psychogenic Inversion Field: Absorption 3d6 (energy, Psychogenic Shield, Feedback Loop), Can Absorb Maximum Of 30 Points' Worth Of Energy Damage, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Psychogenic Shield and Feedback Loop (+1/2) (37 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Visible (-1/4) [Notes: Red sparks around body, emenating from the source of the impact, as Inversion absorbs.]

15 2) Psychokinetic Inversion Field: Absorption 3d6 (physical, Psychogenic Shield, Feeback Loop), Can Absorb Maximum Of 30 Points' Worth Of Physical Damage, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Psychogenic Shield and Feedback Loop (+1/2) (37 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Visible (-1/4) [Notes: Red sparks around body, emenating from the source of the impact, as Inversion absorbs.]

15 3) Psychogenic Shield: Force Field (10 PD/10 ED/5 Mental Defense/5 Power Defense) (30 Active Points)

8 4) Feedback Loop: Energy Blast 2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Linked (Psychokinetic Barrier; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4)

10 5) Kinetic Reinforcement: Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6 (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)

0 Psychogenic Shield: Force Field (30 PD/30 ED/15 Mental Defense/15 Power Defense) (Custom Adder) [Notes: This would be the Full Effect force field. Costing 9 END / Phase. Would require a total of 60 body to be "absorbed". But still more than I want, especially unbalanced if combats are going to be longer.]

0 Mock Full Power Feedback Loop: Energy Blast 6d6, Custom Adder, Penetrating (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Linked (Psychokinetic Barrier; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4)

{lower than I want, if most people have 20-30 def, this probably wouldn't do anything even at full power}

Powers Cost: 156

Cost Skill

3 Bureaucratics 13-

3 Climbing 13-

5 +1 with HTH Combat

3 Conversation 13-

3 Electronics 12-

3 Gambling 12-

3 Hoist 12-

3 Linguist

3 1) Language: English (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 2) Language: French (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

0 3) Language: German (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 4) Language: Italian (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 5) Language: Portugese (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 6) Language: Spanish (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 Oratory 13-

3 Paramedics 12-

3 Persuasion 13-

7 PS: Interpreter 16-

3 SS: Linguistics 12-

Skills Cost: 60

Cost Perk

2 Deep Cover

1 Fringe Benefit: License to practice a profession [Notes: Licensed Interpreter]

2 Money: Well Off [Notes: Upper-Middle Class Income]

Perks Cost: 5

Total Character Cost: 346

Pts. Disadvantage

10 Enraged: Injustice (Common), go 8-, recover 14- [Notes: One of the more obvious psychological manifestations of Erik Kriegs complex is his profound anger at injustice - as though it were a personal affront to his power or identity. This complicates matters with trying to keep the identities of Erik and Blitzkrieg separate - more than once has Erik called in sick to work to go marauding as Blitzkrieg for the day. Too many such instances and someone might put two and two together.]

20 Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Very Frequently, Major) [Notes: Erik Krieg has so far been successful in keeping Blitzkrieg's identity safe from even his family. A reporter thinks she may have a lead, and has been sniffing around Erik for the past several weeks.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Very Common, Strong) [Notes: With such incredible resilience, Erik has developed something of a God Complex. Eventually, he will run up against the limitations of his powers - hopefully, he won't be running too fast at the time.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing (Common, Total) [Notes: While Erik doesn't mind breaking things, breaking people is another story altogether. Erik is not willing to accept that he cannot subdue any threat.]

15 Hunted: Thebes Police Department 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Mildly Punish) [Notes: Looking to ticket/fine/try Blitzkrieg for his reckless damage to property in the apprehension of criminals.If they did so, his identity might become compromised.]

30 Dependent NPC: Parents, Siblings 11- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID; Group DNPC: x4 DNPCs) [Notes: Brother Lukas is a hedge fund manager, sister Sofie is a pianist, Father Jonas and Mother Anna are retired. All call upon Erik for help from time to time, thinking him to be 'connected' from his job as a court interpreter.]

10 Hunted: Jessica Knox of the Daily News 14- (Less Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching) [Notes: Jessica Knox is an up and coming reporter with a local rag, who believes she may have a great debut article to put her on the front page - the identity of the notoriously reckless Blitzkrieg. She's been snooping around Erik Krieg, looking for proof.]

15 Reputation: Reckless, 14- [Notes: Blitzkrieg is seen as irresponsible and reckless in the popular media, he has very little sympathy from the everyman, as they see laying waste to entire city blocks of property to be more the purview of villains and bad guys.]

10 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN To Be Decided (Uncommon) [Notes: [ooc] I want him to have a cryptoninte like weakness that he doesn't yet know about. I know that's kind of cliche, any other ideas for a weakness that he could run up against are welcome as well.]

Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

thanks for the help!

Re: Catalyst: A Champions campaign on Hero Central

Oh if someone else already has a mentalist character I don't want to bump him off.

Do you have a tanker type?

Here's my idea for a tank.

Eric Krieg

Player:

Val Char Cost

65 STR 55

18 DEX 24

18 CON 16

18 BODY 16

13 INT 3

14 EGO 8

18 PRE 8

16 COM 3

13/31 PD 0

4/30 ED 0

4 SPD 12

17 REC 0

36 END 0

60 STUN 0

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

13" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 145

Cost Power

66 Psyhokinetic Field: Armor (18 PD/26 ED)

13 Psychokinetic Field: Damage Resistance (12 PD/4 ED/10 Mental Def.)

6 Psychokinetic Field: Tunneling 1" through 1 DEF material, Usable Running (+1/4) (6 Active Points)

13 Psychogenic Field: Healing 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4)

7 Psychogenic Field: Mental Defense (10 points total)

35 Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing)

Powers Cost: 140

Cost Skill

3 Bureaucratics 13-

3 Climbing 13-

5 +1 with HTH Combat

3 Conversation 13-

3 Electronics 12-

3 Gambling 12-

3 Hoist 12-

3 Linguist

3 1) Language: English (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 2) Language: French (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

0 3) Language: German (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 4) Language: Italian (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 5) Language: Portugese (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 6) Language: Spanish (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

3 Oratory 13-

3 Paramedics 12-

3 Persuasion 13-

7 PS: Interpreter 16-

3 SS: Linguistics 12-

Skills Cost: 60

Cost Perk

2 Deep Cover

1 Fringe Benefit: License to practice a profession [Notes: Licensed Interpreter]

2 Money: Well Off [Notes: Upper-Middle Class Income]

Perks Cost: 5

Total Character Cost: 350

Pts. Disadvantage

10 Enraged: Injustice (Common), go 8-, recover 14- [Notes: One of the more obvious psychological manifestations of Erik Kriegs complex is his profound anger at injustice - as though it were a personal affront to his power or identity. This complicates matters with trying to keep the identities of Erik and Blitzkrieg separate - more than once has Erik called in sick to work to go marauding as Blitzkrieg for the day. Too many such instances and someone might put two and two together.]

20 Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Very Frequently, Major) [Notes: Erik Krieg has so far been successful in keeping Blitzkrieg's identity safe from even his family. A reporter thinks she may have a lead, and has been sniffing around Erik for the past several weeks.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Very Common, Strong) [Notes: With such incredible resilience, Erik has developed something of a God Complex. Eventually, he will run up against the limitations of his powers - hopefully, he won't be running too fast at the time.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing (Common, Total) [Notes: While Erik doesn't mind breaking things, breaking people is another story altogether. Erik is not willing to accept that he cannot subdue any threat.]

15 Hunted: Thebes Police Department 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Mildly Punish) [Notes: Looking to ticket/fine/try Blitzkrieg for his reckless damage to property in the apprehension of criminals.If they did so, his identity might become compromised.]

30 Dependent NPC: Parents, Siblings 11- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID; Group DNPC: x4 DNPCs) [Notes: Brother Lukas is a hedge fund manager, sister Sofie is a pianist, Father Jonas and Mother Anna are retired. All call upon Erik for help from time to time, thinking him to be 'connected' from his job as a court interpreter. ]

10 Hunted: Jessica Knox of the Daily News 14- (Less Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching) [Notes: Jessica Knox is an up and coming reporter with a local rag, who believes she may have a great debut article to put her on the front page - the identity of the notoriously reckless Blitzkrieg. She's been snooping around Erik Krieg, looking for proof.]

15 Reputation: Reckless, 14- [Notes: Blitzkrieg is seen as irresponsible and reckless in the popular media, he has very little sympathy from the everyman, as they see laying waste to entire city blocks of property to be more the purview of villains and bad guys.]

10 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN To Be Decided (Uncommon) [Notes: [ooc] I want him to have a cryptoninte like weakness that he doesn't yet know about. I know that's kind of cliche, any other ideas for a weakness that he could run up against are welcome as well. ]

Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

Background

orn 26 years ago, the middle child of three, to affluent parents in western Germany, Erik enjoyed a liberal education and a wealthy life style. High school track star, valedictorian and prom king, Erik seemed like the kid who had it all - but none of it seemed important to Erik. Through his depression, Erik studied linguistics and languages at Oxford pursuing a Bachelor of Arts.

In his third year, Eric Krieg was overpowered by his depression and nihilism took hold once more - with war on the world stage, what use were words? Such poverty, suffering and crime demanded a more potent response than a sharply worded message. Especially despondent, he went for his regular evening run - this one, however, would prove fateful.

Approaching an intersection, Eric noticed a vehicle accelerating towards a woman trying to ferry two unhappy children across the street. With no time to think, Erik jumped in front of the startled woman, realizing in the fraction of a second before his impact the futility of his action.

Erik's mind blacked out momentarily, but when he came to he realized he was leaning over the woman and her children. His back felt strangely cool, and his senses returned to him, he realized that the car was strewn about the street corner, as though it had been hit by a train. The driver was severely wounded, and though Erik regrets that, it was made public that he had been involved in a series of drunk driving accidents over the past year, two of which had led to fatalities.

Erik has since devoted his life to fighting injustice with both words and - if necessary - actions. He is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in, neither as Eric Krieg nor as Blitzkrieg, he has finished his degree and become an interpreter in the burgeoning metropolis of Thebes.

Personality

Erik's powers have provided him with fantastic strength and fortitude, both physically and emotionally. Armed with his nigh invulnerability, Erik has developed a bit of an overconfidence problem, rushing into decisions and situations that he is ill-prepared for. Not fully understanding his own powers, he also does not have any real concept of his limitations - he also has some level of insulation or detachment from the damage he wreaks while Blitzkrieg.

Quote

If you try to stop me, it will go poorly for you.

Powers/Tactics

Erik isn't truly invulnerable - though he is highly durable. His body, down to the molecular level, is protected and regenerated by an intense psycho-kinetic field. The field is projected and maintained by his subconscious, possibly even the instinctual, reptilian portions of his brain. The net effect of this has caused him to believe he has super-strength, when truly his body is simply that of a 21 year olds, encased in a powerful protective field that annihilates whatever he moves past.

{ooc I was thinking of maybe giving him some super running and lowering something else.}

Appearance

Erik is 26 but does not appear to have aged past 21. With golden-blond hair and sapphire blue eyes, he is not an unattractive individual. To protect his siblings and parents (both of which are still alive) he wears a costume while fighting crime (Blitzkrieg - red and gold theme, with a tank insignia on the chest). When he is working as an interpreter, he wears nice suits and ties, always appearing professional - if startlingly young for the job.

Sorry about the long background section. I can trim it down some.

Re: Catalyst: A Champions campaign on Hero Central

Hi.

I tried to apply for the Thebes game in herocentral and got redirected here. So hope I'm in the right place.

This seems to be the format you all are exporting to, but the only option I have that exports like this doesn't give the backgrounds, so I'm just gonna cut and paste them.

Background and History:

Edmond Somsen had a quiet, unremarkable childhood - his father was a machinist and his mother was a hair stylist. Edmond was neither popular nor unpopular, bright nor dim. Adolescence arrived and with it, the first signs of aberrant behavior, of something more - or at least, something different.

At first, the Somsen's were concerned that Edmond was in to drugs - moving about the house at all hours of night, never seeming to sleep. When Mary and David confronted him, Edmond denied it, and they asked him to submit to a drug test. They were confounded by the result - that Edmond showed no signs of drug use.

Shortly after Edmond turned fifteen, a sleep specialist diagnosed him as having a severe sleep disorder - throughout an entire night of rest, his brain activity never changed. When pressed about how he had remained so still all night without actually sleeping, Edmond could only say. "I don't know. I feel like I am always sleeping, and always awake. I can no longer tell one from the other."

Over the months of tests, scans and measurements, Edmond began to develop more profound powers, and his status as a Prime was confirmed. With a mastery of sleep, Edmond Somsen took on the name of Hypnos, the god of sleep. After he took to wandering the streets at night, protecting people from nightmares both real and drempt, one smart reporter quipped, "You know, Hypnos was the brother of death," Edmond could only smile politely and reply "I've always wanted a brother."

Personality and Motivation

Edmond is a Prime, and even though he sometimes refers to himself as Hypnos, he's not overly serious about the connection or the imagery. With eight extra hours every day - not to mention, never seeming to exhaust himself - Edmond has gained a wealth of knowledge through reading, and has even taught himself a decent amount of hand-to-hand combat techniques.

Edmond is, as yet, new to the "crime-fighting" fold. At first, he wanted to live a normal, unremarkable life - but he has since reached the conclusion that such a thing is simply implausible for his 'kind'. Now he spends his nights drifting about the city stopping petty criminals and soothing away nightmares, pausing every now and again just to listen to the city sleep.

Quote

Sleep, and in your dreams forgot your sorrows.

Powers and Tactics

Sleep and somnial powers. Has become adept at speed reading in extra time. Self-taught martial artist.

Appearance

Nineteen years old, Edmond Somsen stands about six feet tall. Short cropped black hair and dark eyes, possessed of an otherworldly charisma and beauty, he could potentially be very manipulative.

In costume he wears a mask similar to the head dress Hypnos wore - wings extending from the head.

Edmond Somsen

Player: Ben

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

18 DEX 24

18 CON 16

15 BODY 10

13 INT 3

23 EGO 26

20 PRE 10

22 COM 6

10 PD 7

10 ED 6

4 SPD 12

10 REC 6

40 END 2

32 STUN 0

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

3" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 133

Cost Power

3 Ever Sleeping Ever Waking: Life Support (Sleeping: Character does not sleep)

10 Apex Physique: Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED/1 Mental Def.)

15 Resilient Mind: Mental Defense (20 points total)

25 Sleep Control Powers: Elemental Control, 50-point powers

12 1) The Black Dream: Mind Control 11d6 (Human class of minds) (55 Active Points); Set Effect (Only to Induce Sleep; -1), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2)

20 2) Dreamwalking: Mental Illusions 11d6 (Human class of minds) (55 Active Points); Limited Class Of Minds Sleeping Minds (-1/2)

20 3) Sound of the Slumbering Mind: Telepathy 11d6 (Human class of minds) (55 Active Points); Limited Class Of Minds Sleeping Mind (-1/2)

25 4) Daydreams: Ego Attack 5d6 (Human class of minds) (50 Active Points)

17 5) The Call Of Lethe: Mind Scan 10d6 (Human class of minds) (50 Active Points); Limited Class Of Minds Sleeping Minds (-1/2)

Powers Cost: 147

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

Aikido

3 1) Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 25 STR for holding on

3 2) Grappling Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 5d6 Strike; Target Falls; Must Follow Grab

Martial Arts Cost: 6

Cost Skill

3 Climbing 13-

5 Defense Maneuver I-II

10 +2 with HTH Combat

15 +3 with Mental Combat

3 Conversation 13-

3 Stealth 13-

5 Cramming

5 Cramming

10 +1 Overall

Skills Cost: 59

Cost Perk

1 Reputation (A small to medium sized group) 8-, +1/+1d6

Perks Cost: 1

Cost Talent

4 Speed Reading (x10)

Talents Cost: 4

Total Character Cost: 350

Pts. Disadvantage

5 Money: Poor [Notes: Very limited resources, has a day job at a library. ]

5 Reputation: Do-Gooder, 11- (Known Only To A Small Group) [Notes: Hypnos has acquired a bad reputation in the criminal community as a do-gooder. Very few, if any, will help him - he is morally inflexible, unwilling to let the small fish go to catch the bigger ones.]

15 Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Frequently, Major) [Notes: Hypnos and Edmond Somsen are two discrete identities. Only two doctors know the full extent of Edmond's powers, and if they have made the correlation between Hypnos and Edmond Somsen, they haven't leaked it to the media - yet. If his secret identity is revealed, criminals who Hypnos has apprehended might come after Edmond's Family.]

15 Psychological Limitation: Oblivious (Very Common, Moderate) [Notes: Being part in his own dream world and part in the real world, Edmond can miss all but the most obvious of things going on around him. This may apply negative modifiers to (or in some cases prevent him entirely from making) some perception rolls.]

20 Hunted: Crime Syndicate 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Harshly Punish) [Notes: After apprehending and turning in the son of a local Mafia don for drunk driving, the son's car was revealed to have illegal weapons and narcotics, leading to his incarceration. The don is now out for revenge on the mask that stuck his nose where it didn't belong.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Honorable (Common, Total) [Notes: Well read, Hypnos has developed an exacting moral and ethical system, which he adheres to strongly. Both as Hypnos and as Edmond Somsen, his powers are used for what he knows to be good at the time, good is rewarded and evil punished.]

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing (Common, Total) [Notes: Edmond is unwilling to take a human life, and being a vegan, is inclined to not take any life whatsoever. [OOC Note: I'm not sure whether this is appropriate, because I don't know if the hero's in this game would all kind of have code versus killing as a baseline (because, you know, most regular humans generally won't kill in anything but the most extreme of circumstances.) ]]

15 Psychological Limitation: Aversion to Nightmares (Uncommon, Total) [Notes: Edmond has a preternatural aversion to nightmares in others - even criminals. Unless balanced against the weight of lives, or something similarly potent, Edmond will attempt to alleviate the psychic suffering caused by bad dreams when he happens upon them.]

5 Distinctive Features: Dangerous Beauty (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) [Notes: Possessed of incredible physique and fine features, Edmond Somsen tends to stick in peoples minds unless he takes pains to try and disguise himself.]

25 Dependent NPC: Melissa and Tom 11- (Normal; Group DNPC: x4 DNPCs) [Notes: Melissa lives with her son Tom in an apartment down the hall from Edmond. Working two jobs as a waitress, Melissa has come to rely on Edmond for emergency baby-sitting, though Tom insists at his old age of eleven, such monitoring is unnecessary. Edmond and Melissa have grown close over the last several months, and while Edmond holds romantic aspirations for Melissa, she seems either unaware or uninterested. Edmond knows Melissa still dreams of her ex-husband Daniel - a successful banker who she left due to his abusive behavior, and who is now trying to insinuate himself back in to her life.]

5 Rivalry: Romantic (Daniel; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry) [Notes: Daniel Morrisy is the ex-husband of Edmond's next door neighbor, Melissa and father of their son, Tom. Daniel has met Edmond on two occassions, once at Melissa's apartment while Edmond was baby-sitting and once at Edmond's place of work (the Thebe's Central Library), to warn Edmond to "Stay away from his wife."]

Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

Thanks for your time!

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

Completely non-funny response follows:

 

Rule the first: The value for a Limitation is a positive value. 1/4, 1, etc. It is represented as "-1/4" to denote that it is a Limitation (and not an Advantage). Note that Limitation and Advantage are not mathematical terms.

With you so far. You could as easily say Foobar(1/4) and Barfoo(1/4), the the "-" in this case is treated as an indicator of a cardinality of the set. As noted by others, there are specific passages saying to 'treat them as positive values for the purpose of calculation.'

Rule the second: The minimum value for a Limitation is 0. The same is true for Advantages.

With you here as well.

Rule the third: There are rare cases of Modifiers (such as Charges) which can change from being a Limitation to being an Advantage. When this happens' date=' the Modifier is not a Limitation -- it's an Advantage (and shown with a "+" sign to denote same). Generally, Limitations will not do this, as there is rarely an Advantage to be gained from having it on your Power.....but Charges is nine kinds of screwed up and runs by its own rules.[/quote']

Here, however, is where you are using 'common sense' to supplement the written rules. The text for charges does say that charges becomes an advantage, however, the text I have referenced repeatedly says it does not - that it is a limitation which violates (or is excepted from), that cardinality. So, I don't know why people can't understand this, and I guess I'm not the best at explaining it, but the system defines the three postulates you need to know to realize that there is an inconsistency. I'll post them as a set, perhaps this will clear up what is going on:

 

Let us say for the first model - the one that you and others propose - that the we have a set called Modifiers. This set has a cardinality of two, limitations and advantages - both consist entirely of nonnegative integers.

 

That is to say

 

M = {L{}, A{}}, where L = {x >= 0} not on A = {y >= 0}

 

Now lets make this pragmatic, we have a power thats worth 10 base points, we have charges of 64 and self-only.

 

We both agree on what the formula in this model is:

 

AP = Base(1+(A{}))

RC = AP/(1+(L{}))

 

We would expect that the RC of the power would be 10, yet, when one considers the aforementioned note that a limitation that would become negative is still considered a limitation, we have two (or three) possible results:

 

If we attempt to reconcile the statement that a limitation which would become negative remains a limitation, specifically charges, with the text saying that charges is to be treated as an advantage, the only possible solution becomes;

 

AP = Base(1+(1/2))

RC = AP/(1+(1))

 

because L{} and A{} become necessarily continuous, as a limitation can be (and in this case must be) also an advantage. So for this you have the RC = 7.5

 

15 = 10(1+(0.5))

7.5 = 15/(1+(1))

 

Alternatively, if you do not attempt to reconcile them, (you do not remove the set restriction that all L are not on A) you get:

 

AP = Base(1+(0))

RC = AP/(1+(1))

 

or 5

 

10 = 10(1)

5 = 10/(1+(1))

 

Lastly, if you allow L{x} to cross the negative boundary, (remove the set restriction L = {x >= 0}) You would get division by zero. Which, as you no a/0 is a nonreal number. It has no integer value.

 

Rule the fourth: When calculating the cost of a Power, you take the total of the Advantages (note that anything with a "+" sign in its display is an Advantage....they are always positive numbers), add them together, add 1 to the total and multiply the real cost by this value. You cannot have a total in Advantages of less than 0 (there is no such thing as a negative value), so this will always give a minimum value of 1*(Real Cost). You take the Active Cost of the ability and divide by (1+Limitation total). Since the minimum value for a Limitation is 0, this means that you will never divide by less than 1.

 

If you want to talk about "broken math" you're far better off picking on the Hero System rounding rules, which are rather painful for anyone who has owned a calculator.

Again, I fully submit to the idea that I am wrong (not "very wrong" because I don't believe in "very wrong", something is either wrong or right on any given instance), I do not, however, entertain the idea that arithmetic and basic algebra/set theory are wrong. You can say "you didn't read x or y" all that you like - but I did, and I clearly include them in the original post.

 

Its kind of strange that people would take a simple model such as this so personally. *shrug* I'm sorry if it offends anyones sensibilities to point out something like this, but the only arguments in "negation" that have even come close to being valid are those which question my understanding of the system as described - and only one of those have even mentioned the text I have specifically quoted, others only having brought up irreconcilable contradictions to it - and the one who did mentioned, failed to even address how I misinterpret what it says.

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

"Noninteger"??

Um, Limitations are rational numbers but not necessarily integers, and the rounding at each step is not, in any imaginable way, restricted from rounding to integers even if your ideas were not flawed. What in the world did you think you were saying here?

You consider the result of f(x)=x/0 an integer?

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

Right. Minimum isn't obviously wrong' date=' it's obviously correct. Said flaw - i.e., assumed reinterpretation of the text based on your assumption - led you down an incorrect logic chain. So your conclusion is thusly flawed based on assumption you made upstream.[/quote']

 

Lets try this.

 

"The [maximum] value for most Limitations is -0, regardless of how much they're reduced with less restrictive options. The text notes exceptions, such as Charges."

 

Alright, so.... Lets say my maximum/minimum comment was completely, totally erroneous, I'll rescind it, put minimum back ... But notice, it doesn't effect the structure of the argument laid forth. We have two possibilities, the same as was in my original post:

 

Charge is an exception to the rule of limitations not crossing positive/negative axes, and thus we can achieve noninteger and counterintuitive results.

 

Or

 

Charge is an exception to the rule of limitations not crossing positive/negative axes, but we take an absolute value of the limitation before tabulation. In which case, we have a scenario in which -1 Charges has the same effect as +1 Charges.

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

Ladies and gentlemen' date=' I believe we have a textbook example of a straw man. The system as [b']Stochastic[/b] presents it to us is flawed. However, the system as he presents it to us is not the system as it actually exists. There is a clear declaration in black letter law . . . er, um, rule text anyway . . . explaining that those negative symbols are there to indicate that Limitations function as a discount to powers, not to indicate that they are negative numbers. Does someone need to post "Limitation values are not actually negative . . . ever!" in really huge font to convey this point, or is it merely a case of getting enough repetitions to achieve comprehension here?

 

Regards,

Brainstorm

'm not smiling.

 

Then again, my funny is broken, but that's been taken up before. I'm really a Giant Robot. I'd go on a tear about this, but it seems that everytime someone corrects you, Stochastic, you simply have yet another way of defending your incorrect point.

 

System isn't broken. Error exists on the other side of the page.

You people really aren't reading the whole of the first post are you? I deal with the notion saying that limitations are nonnegative - I deal with it by showing where it says that a limitation that crosses the axes to positive is still a limitation...

I ... really don't know whats wrong here. Should I embolden the parts of the original post that deal with the "problems" you are raising?

No offense, but the way that this entire thread comes across is as a "gotcha" against the System.

 

Also, when you start throwing around words like "broken," it's easy for others to see you as attacking the fun of the System itself. I suppose it's like saying "stupid." You might not actually be saying it's bad, just that it's stupid, but, that tends to create a certain impression.

I don't believe that its stupid, I certainly don't believe it's bad... I like it... It's fun... But that doesn't make the arithmetic I've pointed out any less flawed.

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

Touche? hehe.

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

right... humorous as it was (actually, I didn't even crack a smile, it wasn't that funny).

 

p281 pretty clearly lets you know what going to affect the price you take the positive (absolute) value of the limitations.

Alright - so, what do you want me to say? "Hey, what can I do? Some people just don't have a sense of humor. Or a grasp of basic arithmetic."

I'm not into the whole "gotcha" thing and this wasn't a subject for debate and discussion in the terms of whether or not the numbers add up in a certain way: I have evidenced the three postulates that you need to know to arrive at the conclusion that the system is technically broken at a certain point.

The fact that another point in the text claims that Charges works as an Advantage only shows an irreconcilable difference with the postulate determining it to be a Limitation which as an exception to the rule of not being greater than 0.

So - yet once more - this isn't an attack on how "fun" the system is, merely that the system as they describe it is broken.

As per a proper definition, its very close - in fact, its merely in their definition of the denominator.

For every integer x greater than (or equal to) zero there exists a y of equal value, for every integer x less than zero there exists a z.

Active Points equals Base Cost times the quantity of one plus the quantity of the series y.

Real Cost equals Active Points divided by the quantity of one plus the absolute quantity of the series z.

I really didn't intend for it to be this long of a discussion, the original post covers all of the points raised as to why I put the order of operations the way I did, why the taking of an absolute value doesn't work in their system, et cetera...

Was just intended to be a humorous change of menu from the normal fare of "SYSTEM BROKEN BECAUSE I CAN BLOW UP THE PLANET FOR 2 POINTS!"

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

It's not "common sense"; it's spelled out explicitly by the rules:

 

"Total the Limitations as positive values, even though they're listed as 'negative' numbers."

 

-- 5ER, p. 281, under "How Limitations Affect A Power's Cost"

Indeed, but I already addressed that:

"The [maximum] value for most Limitations is -0, regardless of how much they're reduced with less restrictive options. The text notes exceptions, such as Charges."

on page 282. Thus, Charges is an exception to the rule of Limitations not going above -0, so at +1, when you take |-1| and |+1| you have the same value.

I specifically devoted a section of my original post to why taking an absolute value would not work.

Re: Life Support Power Build

Drain of life support or skills or other similar things would throw up a huge red flag for me. Heck, drains in general are a big red flag for me (really should have the exclamation point on it). Unless there was a REALLY good reason for the drain, I wouldn't allow it.

 

-Nate

Hrm... Really? I just made a "viral" character, one of the things he can attack with is HIV which is a persistent Life Support drain (with the +1 sticky with the caveat that it requires a transfer of bodily fluids).

I doubt it would really be that useful, other than to weaken peoples immune systems to later infect them with something else.

What inherent abuses are you seeing?

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system.

The negative/plus sign is simply used to delinate Limitations/Advantages from each other in the text. Therefore, remove the negative signs from the limitation values in your formula for calculating Real Points from Active Points.

 

So basically, you calculate the Active Points as the first discrete step. This involves Advantages.

 

Then you calculate the Real Points as the second discrete step. This involves Limitations.

 

- Christopher Mullins

That would be taking an absolute value: Did you read why I said, as per their arithmetical description, it doesn't work any way you cut it with that?

Like I said, not super-important (not like you can take an advantage to your GM and say "SEE!? I GET POINTS FOR MY 100d6 RKA!"), but the fact that - per their description - they have you modify the denominator with a value that can achieve a zero sum total means that the system is broken. That is, the sum will not always equal an integer.

In a more abstract sense, the system, when actually operated as they describe, achieves counter-intuitive results.

Again, common sense tells us this is not how it should work - but that doesn't make the numbers add up any differently. Thats just my point.

So I was making a character for a game on their herocentral thing (awesome service, by the by), and I noticed that there is an actual arithmetical flaw in their system: Specifically limitations.

I decided to write this cause I see a few of the "BROKEN SYSTEM!!!111!!!" threads from time to time, while browsing this site.

Anyways, on page 281 the fifth edition of revised it gives us this formula:

Real Cost = Active Cost / (1 + total value of all Limitations)

Now, just inherently, considering that limitations are given in negative values, you have a problem - a limitation of a value greater than 0 and equal to or less than point nine repeating is going to increase the Real Cost of the power, rather than decrease it. Observe.

Real Cost = 1 / (1 + -1/2) = 2

Because (1 + (-1/2)) = 1/2

Furthermore, for any limitation greater than 1, you will start to receive points for it.

1 / (1 + -2) = -1

And then of course the problem of division by zero for a limitation which is exactly 1.

Now - I know what you're going to say: Obviously, they mean to take the absolute value of the sum of limitations - but its not so.

Examine the text at the beginning of the next page (282), which reads:

"The [maximum] value for most Limitations is -0, regardless of how much they're reduced with less restrictive options. The text notes exceptions, such as Charges."

I also said [maximum] because the text reads minimum, which is obviously wrong. Regardless, that text makes it clear that Charges ought still be calculated as a Limitation, even if its value is greater than zero, and so, if you were to take an absolute value to bypass negative/positive, you would have the same result on a +1 charge as you would on a -1 charge.

Anyways, not particularly important, because as humans we can infer what they mean, but I thought it was funny that the arithmetic is actually broken (as per their description) at this point.

Re: Using M&M's Rule of X in HERO

Actually, one of the characters in my campaign is a one trick pony like that. Well, two trick pony - he can fly and he can regenerate/resurrect himself. Its not that "unbalancing" to have a Johnny one shot (As they called them in gurps), because it is its own disadvantage. I think HERO is even more balanced of a system than GURPS - it takes alot more effort to create a "book legal" power that truly disrupts the game in HERO than it does in GURPS.

Re: Some Villain Powers Help?

Hey, just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the help. The game went off very well, and I'm planning out another storyline. These four villains aren't dead, but are hiding somewhere in Thailand for the time being. So, I've been reading up on how different comic book storylines progress and have been considering how best to serialize my stories. I don't think I could pull off some of the more outlandish stuff I read about the varying comic series; Multiple dimensional hops seemingly out of the blue, cosmic entities, invading aliens, et cetera... But the genre seems to have some give and take; some hero's live in grittier, more realistic worlds than others.

At any rate, many thanks for all the help!

Re: Some Villain Powers Help?

Many thanks again, everyone.

We play tomorrow, so wish me luck.

Re: Some Villain Powers Help?

Wow, many thanks. Yall sure know your schtuff.

One quick clarification, can I buy the Area of Effect modifier for telekinesis as one person suggested? I'd never thought of it, but in looking I don't know if there'd be anything specifically off limits about that?

Also I really like that autofire and Area of Effect thing with Jai Wun, very elegant solution. Thats kind of what I like about this system, is making the characters is like half the game. Anyways, thanks again for the help.

Apologies in advance for the novella.

Hello, I've been gaming for a while now, and am not necessarily new to the Hero system per se, I've had the book forever, but we only ran a single campaign of it before the players in my group decided it to be too complex.

Well, now I've got a friend who wants to play a superhero game, so we've started up a new campaign - kind of an X-Man rip off in terms of beneficial mutations, though the cosmology is different.

Anyways, all bathetic inspiration aside, I've made the world setting (near future, collapse / conversion of the galactic blackhole released all kinds of yet unknown radiation, of which Earth's solar system was spared the destructive brunt, as a result of our somewhat unique galactic orbit), and I've started making the villainous group (with modern political overtones, that I will omit to avoid offending anyone ).

Anyways, I've been having trouble trying to pin down how to do the powers of the four main antagonists through the first half of this story. I've lurked around here, hoping perchance to steal someone elses power setup they post if it was similar enough.

Allow me to describe what I wanted, what I've tried and why I don't think it works.

First is Paul Terris, a PhD in Geology and Minerology, his power is to be able to create powerful sonic waves with the resonances of a variety of heavy to light minerals as well as some sediments. Through focusing and prolonging this act, he can even cause earthquakes where faults already exist or create sinkholes / render land infirm.

Okay, so for this power I thought of the following:

Seismic Song [45 Points, 18 END to use]

Change Environment, 4" radius [20], -5 DEX or fall [15]. MegaScale (1" = 10km) [+1/2], Indirect (Originate from below) [+3/4] [78 AP]. Concentration (0 DCV, Unaware) [-3/4], Extra-Time (1 Turn) [-1 1/4]. [26 RP]

AND

EB 6d6 [30]. Megascale (1" = 10km) [+1/2], Area of Effect (4") [+1 1/2] Indirect (Originate from below) [+3/4] [112 AP]. Linked (Above, full power) [-3/4], Concentration (0 DCV, Unaware) [-3/4], Limited Power (Only affects structures attached to ground) [-2], Extra-Time (1 Turn) [-1 1/4]. [19 RP]

Okay, so I made the change environment to reflect the buckling of the earth, and I added the Energy Blast to simulate the damage buildings would take. But I couldn't / can't find any values for destroying large structures such as that. Is that in some supplement I would need to buy? Secondly, energy blast didn't really seem appropriate to me, it's not like the earth would buckle and then buildings would explode, more I wanted it to reflect the inevitable cracking of foundations in some structures.

Okay, so he's supposed to be the main badguy through the first half of the story I'm thinking, then there's his ladyfriend Jai Wun, a member of Chinese Triads until her mutations became more of a liability than an asset. Her mutation allows her to project herself forward and backward (simultaneously) for short periods in time (up to 4 seconds). What my original idea was, was to attempt to use the dimensional travel to allow her to jump between phases, acting as duplicate or even triplicate - then I thought better of it, realizing that combat would become convoluted and annoying. So I decided on duplication as a relatively good facsimile of what I wanted, but I'm stumped as to how to buy off the damage aspect of it. I want the "real" Jai Wun to be able to take damage and be hit normally, but the ones that are travelling forward and backwards along the event not to have any causal relation to the "real" Jai Wun. Like, she can be in a fight, activate this ability and have her projection backwards kick her foe and her projection forward punch her foe, if both projections are killed by gunfire there's no real effect, but if the real Jai Wun is killed or wounded, then the projections would similarly die or be wounded.

Chrono-Dance [55 RP]

Duplicate (2 250pt) [55], Easy Recombination (0 Phase) [10], Ranged Recombination [+1/2] [97 AP] Instant Power [-3/4] [55 RP]

Is all that I have right now, and as you can see, that doesn't really factor in how much it would cost to move the duplicates from "sibling" to "child". Anyone have any ideas on how this could be performed or simulated?

Of the four characters main villainous characters, the third one (Jai Wuns twin brother) was relatively easy, he's a "hydrokinetic" and has some kind of psychic, sympathetic bond with H2O. The only problem I have is that I want him to be able to influence large quantities (can make tsunamis and tidal waves, so megatons worth of energy) but influencing it when it's either dispersed (such as atmospheric) or in small quantities (like the human body) is very difficult or impossible. Megascale appears to only affect distance, not weight otherwise I'd buy him two separate powers and megascale one.

Any suggestions on all that? I know its long, and am sorry, just wanted to make sure all the data was there, so as to avoid confusion. Many thanks in advance.