TheChainTyrant

Re: Feather Fall

I don't have 6e yet but AFAIK it still takes the equivalent of 2" (now referred to as 4 meters) of upward movement to counteract 1" of downward movement.

If you have any sort of flight power active, then there is no downward velocity to counteract, unless there is an initial velocity, which we're not accounting for.

For example, if you had even 2m of flight, you could slowly fly off the edge of a cliff, stop, and hover for a long as you want. You are not in a free fall. The only role gravity plays in this scenario is that it's harder to ascend (1m/phase) and easier to descend (4m/phase).

Hey all. I've seen a few attempts to this classic effect in past threads, but I was never satisfied with the results, either because they were needlessly complicated or just overkill. For the purposes of this thread, I will define the feather fall effect as this: after one meter of free fall (uncontrolled downward movement) the effect activates and slows the decent to a safe velocity. For this effect, we will not cover the possibility of the character starting out at a non-zero initial velocity.

If we are starting from rest, couldn't a mere 2m of flight save you from falling? Any amount of flight will allow you to hover, and though 2m per phase is pretty slow, even this amount would allow you land from any height you dropped from.

Amulet of Feather Falling: Flight 2m, Trigger (when character falls uncontrollably more than one meter, activates as an action that takes no time, resets automatically; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Only To Go Straight Down (-1). Total cost: 2 points

Obviously if you wanted to fall safely a little faster, you could always buy more flight. More flight would also allow you to counteract a higher initial velocity more quickly. With 10m of flight, for example, you could counteract an initial velocity of 20m per segment in four phases.

Comments or contributions?

Re: How to Build This: Voodoo Defense

Reflection' date=' that is good enough to 'always' reflect attacks, with the (very large) limitation that they must be directed at pre-determined allies? What is the range on these dolls, are the mooks always in the area, or are they on the other side of the world and drop dead?[/quote']

 

I thought of Reflection, but it doesn't work on HTH stuff right?

 

The human lives bound to these dolls can be just any mook on the street. They are not allied in any way. Keeping in theme though, this character is a fortune-teller as well, and only binds people if he sees the shadow of death looming over them. If they're fated to live a short life, he might as well make use of that knowledge right?

Re: How to Build This: Voodoo Defense

I'd be slightly wary of this ability in game as it looks very much like invulnerability to me. The various 'invulnerability' threads are probably a good place to look. Desolid works as a way of avoiding all damage - so long as the attack does not affect desolid.

 

The human proxies might be built as a form of focus.

As this was inspired by an anime character, yes, this ability may seem a little over the top. My aim here is not to build invulnerability. It is to pair the fluff with the best mechanics I can. The character itself has very little in terms of resistant defenses, and this power isn't meant to be paired with any other significant defensive ability (aside from a decent DCV). If he takes a bullet or is run through with a sword, then his proxies take the blow and the doll drops out of his body. Once those are gone he's as vulnerable as any other heroic mortal.

For balance concerns I've chosen to make the charges useful only against a single attack that does BODY, rather than lasting the entire segment. An autofire attack that hits five times, then, would use up five charges. The defense does not activate against attacks that do STUN only. Taking a focus limitation really wouldn't be limiting, since the proxies are just random extras off-screen. His power is very obvious in its function though, so I added the perceivable limitation.

Here's a more concrete version of what I've been thinking of:

Voodoo Martyr Protection: Desolidification, 12 Recoverable Charges (+1/4) (50 Active Points), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), Only To Protect Against Attacks That Do BODY Damage (-1/2), Perceivable (-1/4). Total Cost: 22 points

Does this seem like an accurate representation? Since the charges advantage makes the power instant, should I include an advantage like trigger or uncontrolled? Could this be better done through the use of another base power? Thanks for the input.

Hello. I have my own thoughts about this, but I wanted to see what you guys think. If any of you are familiar with the show One Piece, my initial inspiration came from the character Basil Hawkins. His ability goes something like this. If an attack were to do bodily harm to him, then that harm would be redirected to another person via a voodoo doll. If an attack were damaging enough to kill the target, then the doll would be destroyed as well. He is known to carry upwards of 10 of these with him, and possibly much more when he is prepared. The nature and magnitude of the attack is irrelevant, the only limit to his defense is the number of dolls on his person. These dolls were all connected to human extras, and he has not been seen using this ability offensively. That is, connecting a doll to an enemy and using the transfered attacks against him.

My thoughts were something centering around a triggered desolidification with charges and appropriate limitations. I'm not sure how to model the advantage where if the attack is not enough to kill the connected human, then the charge is not used; that the charge is only used up if the attack could kill (20 BODY damage) or incapacitate the voodoo doll's target. The desolidification should only last for one segment, so perhaps the instant (-1/2) limitation? It should be able to apply to all attacks made against the character in a segment, like autofire, sweep, and coordinated attacks. Note that this power would in no way protect against non-lethal attacks, like flash (unless that flash did BODY or Stun).

Is desolidification a good way to go for building this? Any other thoughts or considerations I'm not taking into account? I'm still trying to get used to 6e, so please bear with me if there's something I missed. Thanks!

Re: Adaptive Invisibility

Doing this with transform, and iving it enough range to cover anywhere in the galaxy, works out like this:

 

Ignored by the Universe: 62 active, 41 real

Major Transform 1 point (Transform senses to not register the character, The character bringing himself to someone's attention deliberately), Inherent (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1), Continuous (+1), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 lightyears; +4 3/4) (62 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

That is suprisingly affordable, and covers not just this galaxy, but congruent realities too. Very wrong, but surprisingly affordable

Interesting, but isn't it lacking Invisible Power Effects (+1)?

Also, a few questions. It possible to buy a 1 point transform? Is this specifically allowed by the text? There has to be some defense for an NND attack; did you have any ideas as to what this would be?

For this kind of effect, I would think that AoE Mental Illusions ("You Don't Notice Me") + IPE would work better. Because it is directly affecting the mind, it doesn't matter if they have 1 or 10000 senses, and doesn't matter what sense groups they have.

 

Otherwise, IMO there is no reasonable way to be "Absolutely, Totally, Completely Undetectable". Though you could give the *appearance* of being invisible by using Iindirect (w/ IPE) on all of your attacks (and buying Fine Manipulation TK equal to your STR - w/ IPE) That way, All that you do will appear to be coming from location X, but since there is actually nothing to see there, you have effective invisibility.

I'll have to look into this more as well.

Notice that I've never said I wanted absolute invisibility, I just want one that's hard to crack. With my original construction, the precognitive clairsentience and VPP invisibility, a character could sense me as long as he had more unusual senses than I could block at once. A VPP with 25 points [1 targeting sense group plus 1 targeting sense (single)] could be beaten with 3 unusual senses. Since I planned to use a 40 point VPP though, you would need 6 unusual senses.....possible but unlikely.

Re: Adaptive Invisibility

Below is a formidable block of responses, but I though it prudent to respond in a single post. Thank you all for lending me your ideas and opinions.

Personally' date=' as a GM, if I allowed the power, I probably would not allow No Conscious Control as a Limitation. After all, what else could you consciously choose to do with a precognitive Clairsentience with Detect Senses Sensing Me, other than to precognitively detect senses sensing you? [/quote']

 

The point of the limitation would be that I would have no knowledge of what senses I was detecting. The power would be reflexive, working independently once activated. My main motivation for this is not to tack on a limitation (I would perhaps consider it a -0), but to represent the fact that the detect is only a means to an end. I'm not interested in knowing what unusual senses I block, just that the power blocks them. Maybe a different limitation would be more appropriate?

 

Finally some senses do not use PER as such' date=' notably telepathy and Mind Scan. Still, can't have everything [/quote']

 

My intentions were to buy an invisibility power covering all of the normal sense groups, including the mental sense group, in addition to the adaptive invisibility. The point of the adaptive invisibility is hide from the unusual senses as they come along. This has the power to stymie even the most obscure and unusual senses.

 

You can do it' date=' but by the time you spend all the points to hook it up, you probably would have been better off just buying full-spectrum invisibility.[/quote']

 

I could buy invisibilities to the published unusual senses, and even some that aren't so common, but there is always the chance that an enemy would possess some custom detect/sense I hadn't anticipated. There are dozens of practical detects to base a sense on. It would be impossible to stop them all without a power to detect them and stop them on the fly.

 

I think the problem - and I may have this wrong - is that you cannot buy broad spectrum invisibility to the 'unusual' sense group - you have to buy invisibility to each sense and, given that you can define an unusual sense however you like, there is no way to cover all the bases. I think that the idea is that there would be invisibility to all the normal sense groups PLUS a sense that identified the characteristics of unusual senses and a triggered VPP that instantly builds a form of invisibility to defeat that sense.

 

Perhaps this is a problem of approach though - rather than bothering with invisibility at all, you could use a transform that specifically turned off an opponents senses, but ONLY with respect to you...

 

You've summed up my predicament quite nicely, and even suggested an alternative I hadn't thought of. When I want to remain unseen, the default power I defer to is invisibility, but that doesn't mean there aren't other methods of achieving the same effect. Transforms, transdimensionality, mental images, images(?), mind control, suppress(?)......etc. All are viable, and if anyone has any suggestions along these lines, please, suggest away.

 

The problem that's coming up is that no matter how invisible you are, you are still actually there. And if you are actually there, then you can be detected. If all else fails, "Detect gravitational forces, microscopic" would pick up the presence of your mass, no matter how little mass you have (or how invisible you are).

 

It kind of sounds like you want to make a character who uses invisiblity as their sole and only defense. Going undetected is nice, but HEROs isn't a game of absolutes. There will always be someone who can 'see' you no matter how invisible you are, just like there will always be someone who can hurt you not matter how invulnerable you are. It may be rare, but it's still a possibility.

 

So don't neglect your other defenses.

 

PS: The best way to get the invisiblity you want is a combination of Invisibility and a high Stealth roll. That way at least there's a chance the exotic senes won't automatically pick you up. But sooner or later someone always rolls a 3...

 

Firstly, the sense I had in mind that would form the basis of my adaptive invisibility would detect "senses that I am not already invisible to that currently sense me", or along those lines. If it can detect me, then I would myself detect the detect used. It matters not how indirect the sense is.

 

Secondly, I do not plan on using this power as my only defense. In fact, I don't plan on using this power in combat at all. I'm designing this character's power for infiltration and evasion purposes, and maybe for getting a surprise first strike in combat, not as the cornerstone of my combat power.

 

As to the stealth plus invisibility combo you suggested, I was thinking along those lines as well, and if this power turns out to be more hassle than it's worth, I will fall back on that.

 

Since most senses are passive, taking information from the target, how would you detect this? If the person viewing the invisible character was using an active system (active sonar, or vision that projected some sort of light that needed to reflect off the target, as opposed to just picking up reflected light, etc).

 

It could be a detect/analyze for what normally is around (wavelengths of light, wind for scent, magic?). Clairsentience might be the best way to go, looking into the future a few seconds, maybe with the detect senses?

 

Yes, exactly. As I said I would use a detect, functioning as a sense in its own group. Used in conjunction with precognitive clairsentience, it could scan ahead of time and block the sense before it had a chance to detect me.

 

What's the special effect of this power? I get the feeling that you're shooting for a meta-power, something that grants the idea of invisibility instead of a defined transparency to certain forms of detection. The system doesn't really support that.

 

What you need to do is to just buy Invisibility to every form of detection used in the setting, which should be fairly finite. The whole idea smacks of cheapness, though.

 

Like I said, I can't prepare for every unusual group sense, even in just one setting. I don't know what you mean by "meta-power", but I can assure you that mechanical legality and common sense are forefront in my mind.

In a world where extraordinary beings with hosts of exotic senses are common, even a suite of invisibility powers can leave you vulnerable when you need to be absolutely stealthy. It would be impractical to plan for every possibility, so my goal was to come up with a power that allowed me to detect the senses currently sensing me, in order that I may adjust my invisibilities as needed.

Is this within the means of the detect sense, to sense the senses currently sensing me?

Would I be able to use it in conjunction with some sort of precognitive clairsentience with No Conscious Control, so that the power could anticipate and adapt as needed behind the scenes?

I would probably place the Invisibility powers to be used with this in a Cosmic VPP, possibly also with No Conscious Control and Linked.

Thanks.

Re: N-ray vision based hero

Like Tech said, just because he can perceive the world in great detail does not mean he automatically retains everything he sees. For that you would need the Eidetic Memory talent, coupled with a high intelligence to make use of it.

Re: Fringe on Invisibility

Yes, but...

 

...I think if you only had one adder you could only use it with one power at a time, so only switch off one fringe at a time, at least that is how I'd probably play it.

Hmm, I was hoping for a more practical solution.

Perhaps, since a character has the option of not using his powers at maximum, I could just apply that to my original invisibility power:

Invisibility to Sight Group, Hearing Group, and Smell/Taste Group, No Fringe. Total Cost 40 points.

Maximum power, in this case, wouldn't be interpreted to mean some gradual scaling effect, but certain portions of the aggregate. That's reasonable, yes?

Re: Fringe on Invisibility

Hmm. Well' date=' the 5ER index entry is "Naked Power Advantages and Adders". Also, under "Naked Power Advantages" on p. 244 it states, "(A character could also have a naked Power Adder; the same rules apply.)" You're right that you wouldn't have to limit the APs of the power the Naked Adder could apply to, since the costing is different. I assume all the other rules like costing End still make sense. [/quote']

 

Thanks for pointing that out. This does mean, if I'm correct, that I could purchase separate invisibility powers and have the naked adder apply to them all. This would give me the freedom to switch off certain invisibilities without having to purchase multiple adders.

 

Am I interpreting this correctly?

When purchasing the No Fringe adder for invisibility, must you purchase it for every group you are invisible to, or just once?

For example, does this work?

Invisibility to Sight Group, Hearing Group, and Smell/Taste Group, No Fringe. Total Cost 40 points.

Would I be able to turn off portions of this power, so that I am invisible to certain groups, but not others?

If I were to split the various groups that the character is invisible to into distinct powers, would I need to purchase the adder for each power?

Thanks.

Re: Complex Sectional Armor

...it should be more expensive to buy extra coverage for your head than it is to buy extra coverage for your foot...

I agree, but the only limitation I can think of to make armor sectional, activation rolls, does not take this into account.

Lastly' date=' "Double Listed Mass" would raise my eyebrows if I were the GM. In a super-fantasy game, I'm guessing your character's STR will be high enough to easily manage this armor plus a lot more. To me, that's a limit that isn't very limiting. I guess there would need to be a lot of STR draining going on to make it a limit worth (-1 1/2). A LOT of STR draining, and maybe some tumbles into deep water.[/quote']

 

True, and perhaps just wishful thinking on my part. In a way, though, I've already paid the points to be able to wear such heavy armor by buying the appropriate strength. Why should I be forced to pay for light or weightless armor when I can shoulder the burden?

Re: Complex Sectional Armor

Alright, I've worked out the math using the activation rolls provided by Outsider. This looked like a great way to go about doing it, and my original aim was to save some points by cutting down on armor where I didn't need it. Alas this didn't work out quite as I'd have liked.

I separated the hit locations into three sections, each with a different armor value based on the locations vulnerability. The activation rolls and the limitation values are included for each section.

Section 1: (3-5, 12, 13)

Section 2: (9, 10-11)

Section 3: (6, 7-8, 14, 15-16, 17-18)

Section 1: (1+3+6+25+21) (56/216) (8-)

Section 2: (25+27+27) (79/216) (9-)

Section 3: (10+15+21+15+10+6+3+1) (81/216) (9-)

Section 1: (-2)

Section 2: (-1 ½)

Section 3: (-1 ½)

Here I work out the cost of each section of armor, Sections 1, 2, and 3 having an armor value of 25, 20, and 10 respectively. Note that I include the Double Listed Mass limitation. This will affect the real cost of the armor, but it'll still remain useful in comparisons.

Armor (25 PD/25 ED) (75 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½), Sectional (-2). Total Cost: 15

Armor (20 PD/ 20 ED) (60 Active Points); OIF (-½), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½), Sectional (-1 ½). Total Cost: 13

Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-½), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½), Sectional (-1 ½). Total Cost: 7

Total Cost: 35

This cost seemed a bit high, so I went and did what Markdoc suggested, buying the minimum armor all over, then adding more on other sections. The first line is the overall protection, the other two being Sections 1 and 2.

Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½). Total Cost: 10

Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½), Sectional (-2). Total Cost: 9

Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-½), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½), Sectional (-1 ½). Total Cost: 7

Total Cost: 26

This is better, but when you consider that to just buy 25 PD/25 ED all over using the same limitations costs 25 points, it just isn't worth it.

Armor (25 PD/25 ED) (75 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Double Listed Mass (-1 ½). Total Cost: 25

Like I said, I was looking to save some points by cutting off some of the excess protection, and it certainly made sense to me that some suits of armor would have less protection in some areas and more in others, but you just end up getting less for more cost.

Hello. First off I'd like to say that I'll be using the hit location rules, and that the armor is intended for a heavy fighter type in a AP 75 limit super-fantasy game.

I've been interested in constructing an armor power that will provide varying levels of protection based on the hit location. The head, vitals, and stomach areas possessing the greatest protection, and the hands, arms, legs, and feet possessing lighter protection.

My only problem is that I don't know what limitations to apply to each part of the defenses. The armor coverage table in the core rulebook (page 488) is far from granular enough. I would need limitation values for all the hit location groups, (3-5, 6, 7-8, 10-11, so on...) Is this possible, or does another way of going about this exist?

Thanks. Once I've figured this out I'll post my completed armor power if anyone's interested.