Armor Mass Question

[Zeropoint]

I've been trying to figure out the mass for the "Full Body Armor" listed on SH 155, and I'm coming up with some confusing results.

 

First, does the weight table on 5E 334 refer to the TOTAL defense of the armor (i.e. PD + ED) or to a general DEF value (so that "defense 4" gives both 4 PD and 4 ED)?

 

Second, the text indicates that full coverage armor weighs 2.5 kg at DEF 2, while the table lists it as 5.0 kg for the same defense--which is it?

 

Under a best-case interpretation the armor comes out at 40 kg, which still seems like a lot of weight--my 13 STR character is going to be at -2 DCV, - 1" of movement, and will burn 1 END per turn just standing around in the stuff. (Under a worst-case interpretation, it's 160 kg, and she can't even stand up in it.)

 

However, I guess that's not bad for armor that will stop a .44 magnum 100% of the time.

 

I'd appreciate clarification on this issue, and any comments you might have on how you've handled armor weight in your games, either from a GM's or player's perspective.

 

Zeropoint

 

Happy New Year!

[Guest Keneton]

I do not have the rulebook in front of me but still feel that I can clarify some of your confusion.

 

If you take the standard mass limitation, the values on the table repersent the weight of full coverage (all hit locations) armor for a normal sized wearer. The Defense applies to both PD and ED, but does not ahve to (see notes in Fantasy hero).

 

Armor encumberance is effected by strength, and under 5th edition rules is not very restrictive at all. PSL's can be purchased to offset these penalties.

 

I am not sure about your math, as I do not know what limitations you are taking, and what DEF you want to have, and what amount of coverage you want. If you give me more info I will attempt to help.

 

[Zeropoint]

Well, you answered the first question: DEF x armor provides x rPD *and* x rED. That's good to know.

 

I'm going to walk through my math now. Please, correct me if I'm going wrong.

 

The writeup for the armor in question is:

Armor (12 PD/12 ED) (36 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Mass (half mass; -1/2), Reall Armor (-1/4). Real Cost: 16 points.

 

According to the Weight Table in Fred, DEF 10 full coverage armor masses 80 kg. That's as high as the table goes, but the first complete sentence in the right-had column states that mass "doubles for every +2 DEF." This would yield a base mass of 160 kg for a suit of full coverage DEF 12 armor. Applying the "half mass" limitation, we arrive at a final mass of 80 kg for the suit.

 

HOWEVER! That same sentence reads in whole, "The base mass is equal to 2.5 kg. at DEF 2, and doubles for every + 2 DEF." This disagrees with the table, which gives a mass of 5.0 in the Full Coverage column for DEF 2. Using this more favorable number, the base mass for a full-coverage 12 DEF suit would be only 80 kg, yielding just 40 kg after the "half mass" is applied.

 

It's quite possible that I'm missing something, and the text and the table don't actually disagree.

 

Also, when I compare DEF 12 to the weapons that the characters will likely be packing, it looks like that armor would make them effectively invulnerable, at least to handguns, so it is perhaps reasonable that it would slow its wearer down, in terms of game balance.

 

Here's a followup question while I'm at it: if I want to represent armor composed of a bodystocking of some high-tech fabric with rigid plates covering the more vital areas, do I write that up as

A) one full coverage suit for the bodystocking, and a partial-coverage suit for the plates, adding the DEF where they are both present,

 

or

 

a partial-coverage suit representing the areas covered by the plates and bodystocking, with another partial-coverage suit for the areas covered by just the bodystocking.

 

It seems like approach B would be heavier and thus the "more expensive" and therefore correct method. I suppose I'd still need to write up the bodystocking on its own, though, if it can be worn without the plates.

 

Well, I hope that's easier to follow than my first post.

 

Zeropoint

[Monolith]

The problem here is that the written example is incorrect. It is stated as such in the errata. The errata states to use the table information. So in your example your 12 DEF polymer armor would have a base weight of 160 kg, and a half-mass weight of 80 kg.

 

What I would suggest you do is either take the 1/4 Mass Limitation for -1/4 listed in the sidebar example) or take a No Mass Limitation and just assume that the mass of the armor is not sufficient enough to have any major effect on the character. That is what I would do.

 

Really the Mass Limitation is better for representing more primitive styles of armor up to 8 DEF Full Plate. When you start getting into the modern armors it is better to leave it off entirely. Keep in mind though that there is a reason that Mass is a Limitation.

[Outsider]

Or, if you still want it to weigh something, take "real armor" on all of it, and "has mass" on enough of it to give it the mass you want.

 

IE, if you want your 12/12 Space Combat Armor to weigh 10 kg, do the following :

 

6 (24) Armor (8/8) - OIF (-1/2), Independent (-2), Real Armor (-1/4), Has 0.25 Mass (-1/4)

3 (12) Armor (4/4) - OIF (-1/2), Independent (-2), Real Armor (-1/4)

 

 

 

If you dont want the "Independent" limitation, it would look like this :

 

12 (24) Armor (8/8) - OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Has 0.25 Mass (-1/4)

7 (12) Armor (4/4) - OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4)

 

 

 

 

OR, Slightly more Rules Manipulatingly, like this :

8 (18) Armor (6/6) - OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Has 0.5 Mass (-1/2)

10 (18) Armor (6/6) - OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4)

 

(rounding is your friend)

[Zeropoint]

Thanks for the clarification regarding the erattum.

 

Not using the "mass" limitation, at least not on all the armor, looks like the way to go. Actually, since this is for a heroic campaign and the players will be spending cash, rather than points, for the armor, I can just define the weight however I want, I guess.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Zeropoint

[Outsider]

Defining things within the rules framework is half the fun in Hero System, though (or maybe that's just me...)