Sailing from Venice to Cairo

[cyst13]

I'm designing a merchants campaign that will be based in Venice, Italy at the opening of the 14th century. (see my Venetian Hero post on the player finder board if you're interested) My question is where would I find travel times for merchant galleys sailing from Venice to Cairo? (Actually, they would only sail to Alexandria, then take a riverboat up the Nile to Cairo) If any Herophiles are aware of books, websites, etc. that can help me in this regard, I'd be obliged.

[LordGhee]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

Repeat after me W. L Rodgers is the aurthority. " Admiral William Rodgers published (from jacket) a sweeping history of account of naval warfare reaching from the navies of the early roman empire to the Anglo Spanish war of 1585 - 1604 (the Armada)....... Naval Warfar Under Oars 4th to 16th centruries and the frist volume Greek and Roman Naval Warfare are the starting point for any reseach on the subject of Oared warfare. Venice is a large portion to the book as the Battle of Lepanto is one of ten chapters.

 

Thease books publish in the late 1930's hold up as a standard. Rodgers reconstruts the ships and has military stores listed from a number of navies. his reconstructions have held up. When the Greek Navy rebuilt the Trireme The proformance numbers were what was predicted. The builders think that they could improve the numbers. This is the place to start.

 

 

Sailing to cairo was done once a year and the speed for the ships was 9 to 12 Knots max with 3 to 6 knot the average (4.75 mph to 9.5 mph)

this is not coverd in the book but I will look it up in orther sources if i can.

 

Lord Ghee

[cyst13]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

I say, good show, old man! I'm jolly well happy to have this reference. Might you know the title of these volumes? And if you were to nail down for me a time frame or even a precise schedule, I'll treat you to tea and crumpets at the club, m'lord.

[Agemegos]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

Trieste to Alexandria is 1193 nautical miles. I would guess that a galley of the period might cruise at 4 knots. So figure 298 hours: a little over twelve days.

 

But I am a bit perplexed by the notion of a merchant galley. A galley is a warship type.

[cyst13]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

According to my research, while the Venetians did have specific war ships, they also constructed their merchant vessels to do double-duty as war vessels when required. Merchant crews could also double as Navy crews. Thus merchant galleys. Thanks for the info on travel times. I think I'm just going to guestimate it as two weeks, what with ports o' call along the way and all. It's good enough for an RPG anyhoo.

[Markdoc]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

It's very, very dependant on the weather - with a good wind blowing strongly from the north, you could do the trip in 8-9 days.

 

If the winds were contrary (Galleys of the period can tack, but not very efficiently, and an onshore wind usually meant down sails and crawl along under oars with a sea-anchor out) you could easily spend two months or more making the same trip.

 

cheers, Mark

[LordGhee]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

From W.L. Rodgers page 110:in the 13th centry the ordinary galleys were 128 loong and 17 feet wide and a deep draft of 4 to 4.5 feet . . . displaced about 130 to 145 tons ( if I remember the nina of clolumbus fame was 300tons). . . . 60 oars to a side and a crew of 120 rowers 40 to 50 soldiers, sailors and officers.

 

 

From W.L. Rodgers page 112: Anther type of galley was the “Tarida†of about the same length as the “galea sottila†or ordinary galley but about twice as wide. Such ships had two mast and 150 rowers. Not all taride had fighters’ tops but many were so fitted. They served to transport troops, horses, provisions, and siege machines and were slower than ordinary galleys. In battle they formed the second line or reserve. The merchant galleys (Galee di Mercanzia) were built for commerce but might be requisitioned for war. They were nearly 170 feet long and 19 to 23 feet wide with few oars.. . . . . . .They had a crew of 166 men, including rowers, seamen and pilots . .. . . .

 

 

 

From W.L. Rodgers page 115: By the end of the fourteenth century the Venetian government owned The merchant galleys and rented them to the merchants at public auction fro sums which varied according to ages and risks. Sometimes when the dangers where very great the state paid the merchants for undertaking the voyage instead of asking for charter money. There were five annual “mude,†or squadron voyages out of Venice, to Flanders and England, to Languedoc, to Alexandria, to Syria, and to Rumania (Constantinople and the Black Sea)…….Each mude started with 3 or 4 ships. . . .

 

 

 

Galleys are used where the sea’s are easier, the Med, the Baltic (until the 19th centry) lakes in china.

 

Where is Languedoc ?? is that in France?

 

Some info

 

Lord Ghee

[LordGhee]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

Galley a ship propelled with oars.

 

Galleasses later galleys that where big a combanation of the sailing ship and galley the spanish used them had four in the Armada.

 

 

Captain Kidd (early 1700) the pirate hadl the adventure built to use oars as an auxiliary system.

 

since a ship loaded with men to row did not carry much cargo and the rowers could fight galleys became the fighting type since Jason and the argonaunts until the sailing ship tech could carry more guns (1580 plus)

 

Lord Ghee

[LordGhee]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

W.L. Rodgers plublish two books

 

 

Greek and Roman Naval Warfare and

 

Naval Warfare under Oars 4th to 16th Centuries.

 

this is sometimes consider a two volume set.

[Agemegos]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

Where is Languedoc ?? is that in France?

 

Yes, it is southern France. Although nominally part of the Kingdom of France since Carolingian times, it spoke a distinct dialect and had a lot of cultural differences from the North (or Langue d'oiel). The actual authoity of the kings of France was weak in many places, and insignificant in the Languedoc until the Albigensian Crusade (AD 1208-1228), when the County of Toulouse and other domains in the Languedoc were in effect conquered by the Langue d'oiel-speaking retainers of the King.

[cyst13]

Re: Sailing from Venice to Cairo

 

Thanks Lord Ghee. You da man. May your serfs never revolt.