Recovery and Endurance logic

[Mike W]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Actually, many mages require personal END to cast their spells. Dr. Strange. Magic in the novels of David Eddings. And you could make a case for the DragonLance setting as well. And D&D would be built with charges, not END reserve. Really, magic can run off of an END battery, but for most it's going to require either a) an object or creating a serparate Aura stat(which I have heard of people doing). Other than that, magic is normally going to require using personal END or charges the overwhelming majority of the time. The ones that actually use an END battery can usually be explained by the fact that not all magic systems require the caster to personally invest their energy into the spell, instead serving as a channell or vessel through which it flows. Others use the idea of mana, or tapping into an outside source to provide the energy.

 

Mentalists - same thing. Most of them are hard-pressed to exercise their mental powers to their fullest when physically tired. Which would indicate that both their "physical" abilities and their Mental powers draw from the same pool of END.

 

Solar Powered Hero - Could be built with an END reserve, but as I said. It's a rare exception. Most of them could be built other ways.

 

Again, it isn't that you don't have exceptions, but they are very rare. Basically, if a player wants to have an END reserve for inherent powers, they need to justify it to me.

[Kirby]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Actually' date=' many mages require personal END to cast their spells.[/quote']

"Many" means neither "majority," "most," nor "nearly all." Regardless of how many mages require personal endurance and how many do not, END RESERVE can still be logically used to represent the END drained.

 

 

And D&D would be built with charges' date=' not END reserve.[/quote']

That's debatable. It could be argued that D&D magic runs off of multipowers (one mp per level spell) (maybe with charges that cost END) and then you could use the END RESERVE for their "source." One nice thing about HERO is that an open imagination can dream up many different ways for the same power.

 

 

Really' date=' magic can run off of an END battery, but for most it's going to require either a) an object or creating a serparate Aura stat(which I have heard of people doing).[/quote']

Objects would be called magic items. Couldn't an "Aura stat" be the same thing as an END RES?

 

Other than that' date=' magic is normally going to require using personal END or charges the overwhelming majority of the time.[/quote']

"Overwhelming" majority? I easily disagree on that. In fact, the HERO system is the only game I can recall playing that was set up where you could use magic off of your personal END. Star Wars (d6) may have been, but it's been a long time since I've played it.

 

The ones that actually use an END battery can usually be explained by the fact that not all magic systems require the caster to personally invest their energy into the spell' date=' instead serving as a channell or vessel through which it flows. Others use the idea of mana, or tapping into an outside source to provide the energy.[/quote']

Are you arguing that it shouldn't be called an END RESERVE, or are you providing instances to your statements "How often do you see in the comics (or any other genre) that someone burns themself out using their powers but still has lots of energy to do other things? I'd be hard pressed to think of ANY such circumstance that could not be explained by putting charges on the abilities as opposed to an END reserve."

 

Mentalists - same thing. Most of them are hard-pressed to exercise their mental powers to their fullest when physically tired. Which would indicate that both their "physical" abilities and their Mental powers draw from the same pool of END.

I doubt you could classify Professor X this way. While it's been years since I've read comics, especially Marvel, I don't see Prof. X being able to wheel himself through a marathon, but I do see him able to using his mental powers for the same length of time and then some. Thinking of it, D&D mentalists are like and END RESERVE as well. They can fight with weapons, but their psionic powers drain with each use and need rest to recover. Even when drained they can still do other "normal" things.

 

And when you keep saying "most" and other majority words, I'm thinking you're taking liberty with the term as opposed to having a better qualifier. Maybe "most" in your games, but I don't think you could say "most" for HERO players or "most" games are created this way or "most" characters are created this way.

 

Solar Powered Hero - Could be built with an END reserve' date=' but as I said. [[i']sic[/i]] It's a rare exception. Most of them could be built other ways.

I seriously doubt it is a "rare exception." The powers could be built several different ways. None of which would disqualify buying them with an END RES.

 

Again' date=' it isn't that you don't have exceptions, but they are very rare.[/quote']

Again, I doubt this.

 

 

Basically' date=' if a player wants to have an END reserve for inherent powers, they need to justify it to me.[/quote']

Which has nothing to do with Zebediah's posts and questions. Your statements on this seem to be "you can't or shouldn't do this because I don't allow it in my game," which is pointless here. Even after you ask for justifications you argue against them.

 

I think it would be much safer to say that one could easily justify a "natural" END RESERVE, but in your campaign you would not normally allow it.

 

I think I have a better END RES logic, but I'll save that for a new post.

[Kirby]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Mentalists. Mystics. Solar powered characters.

Let's talk about these as END Batteries when it comes to drains & suppresses.

 

If a villain has a power that drains/suppresses END, but with the limitation that it only affects a certain Fx, then on successful attacks the END battery is gone (for the time being) while the character can still run and hide, go get help or evacuate a wounded person.

 

If the hero didn't have an END battery, then when his END was gone, not only could he not use his powers, he couldn't move.

 

(Okay, this is more simplified than I had originally wished, but I'm busy at the moment chatting with a niece, so it'll have to do. Sorry about that.)

[Mike W]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Kirby,

 

First, the reason many of my recent posts don't address Zebediah's questions is because they were in response to a side issue that had started in response to one of Hugh's posts.

 

Second, I think we are simply having a difference of opinion on how to represent things. I could build almost any of the mentalists/mages I've ever read about using personal END and charges as opposed to an END reserve. I will allow that there are a few exceptions, but not many. And I don't think Prof. X would be one of them(I'd buy reduced END on the powers instead).

 

And as far as the "overwhelming majority" of mages running off of personal END goes...First, I was talking about a LOT more than other game systems. Second, one of the reasons I(and a lot of other people I know) play hero is because many of the other systems had problems with their logic. You couldn't build someone or something properly in them because the rules didn't allow it. Instead you got stuck "fudging it". Like Palladium's inability to let you build an armored hero character that could legitimately understand his own suit as a starting character. Or classic D&D's inability to let your wizard wield a sword worth spit(sorry,no you can't base your character on Gandalf). What other systems will let you represent is, quite frankly, a COMPLETELY different issue in my book.

 

Finally, I would refer everyone to the very first sentence under END Reserve in Fred: "A character with an END Reserve has an independent source of Endurance which provides END to run powers." By definition, an independent source is not part of a character. So I restate my point about inherent powers: any power which draws its energy from the character must use personal END(possibly with a reduced END advantage) or in rare instances charges, unless there is a VERY good reason otherwise.

[Kirby]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

First....

 

Second....

Dangit, don't use my writing stye against me! Wait, not against, in response to. Ah, drats, never mind; it looks good.

 

 

I think we are simply having a difference of opinion on how to represent things.

Agreed.

 

I will allow that there are a few exceptions' date=' but not many.[/quote']

I'll still take the opposite on this. I don't think the "exceptions" are few.

 

Finally' date=' I would refer everyone to the very first sentence under END Reserve in Fred: "A character with an END Reserve has [i']an independent source [/i] of Endurance which provides END to run powers." By definition, an independent source is not part of a character. So I restate my point about inherent powers: any power which draws its energy from the character must use personal END(possibly with a reduced END advantage) or in rare instances charges, unless there is a VERY good reason otherwise.

But I can even say from life experience that when my body has been fatigued and I couldn't lift my M-16, run, or pick up my baseball glove, I've still been able to use my brain quite effectively, even if my answers came in puffs. Also, I'd add to the argument that involuntary reaction (such as muscles or sensitive tickle spots) can be considered quite independent, even when a person is near the passed out zone.

 

Also note that FREd doesn't require the power to be taken with a focus. And the focuses would probably have to be bought with usable by others for anyone else to use, (thus adding to the independent source, while not an independent item case) but that's debatable.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Using your brain to do math or physics(which would be represented by skills, not powers) is very different from using it to say, throw cars around with TK too though.

[Mike W]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Sorry,

 

That last reply from sleepydrug should have been mine. I'm using a friend's computer and the autologin didn't click until after I had replied.

[Kirby]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Using your brain to do math or physics(which would be represented by skills' date=' not powers) is very different from using it to say, throw cars around with TK too though.[/quote']

Well you could theorize that it's different.

 

Though, this could even add to the argument that it's an independent power source not requiring a focus.

[Mike W]

Re: Recovery and Endurance logic

 

Maybe, at the same time, it's tougher to think about things when your'e tired but there is no specific game mechanic to represent that.