Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

[DrTemp]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

Me too. Some of you guys with AW set this up so we can watch.

 

While I am a fan of the Hero System setting books, I am not so much a Hero system fan. Thus I would probably make lots of mistakes when setting up such a battle, making the results worthless.

 

But I'd love to help setting it up, with the modifications to the ships that I have suggested.

[MitchellS]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

I believe "fusion rockets for the Earhters' date=' reacionless thrusters for the Xenovores" should do the job. That would also make the Liberty a _real_ leap forward.[/quote']

As I'm seeing it, the problem is one of distance. Hyperdrives cannot function within 100,000 km of a earth-sized planet or 1 AU from the sun. All hyperdrives must stop at that distance [that's why most spaceports are 2 AU from the sun]. That means all ships need to "putt-putt" toward orbit at a couple of hundred mph with their chemical or fusion rockets. That's a long 100,000 km trip. If the Xenovores are currently in orbit preparing their invasion there's no way to stop them. Just to get within 30,000 km for weapon's range would take a week or to. It's at this point that you need vacuum boosters, hydrogen scoops, solar sails, or some other form of propulsion which can make a 100,000 km journey take minutes rather than days or weeks.

 

Ships can use hyperdrives to get within a few thousand km of each other in space. But even with allowing a 2,000 km minimum on hyperdrives it can still take far to long for chemical or fusion rockets to move a ship 2,000 km so that their non-mega-scale weapons [the ones using less endurance] will be within range. And all ships especially need something that will give them the ability to close the orbital distances. It's just an unforeseen design flaw. That's why I'd give all rockets the "vacuum booster" ability of enough NCM multipliers to make a two-time 100,000 km journey in only a few minutes.

[DrTemp]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

As I'm seeing it' date=' the problem is one of distance. Hyperdrives cannot function within 100,000 km of a earth-sized planet or 1 AU from the sun. All hyperdrives must stop at that distance [that's why most spaceports are 2 AU from the sun']. That means all ships need to "putt-putt" toward orbit at a couple of hundred mph with their chemical or fusion rockets. That's a long 100,000 km trip. If the Xenovores are currently in orbit preparing their invasion there's no way to stop them. Just to get within 30,000 km for weapon's range would take a week or to.

 

Well, the Xenovores would, of course, have to travel that distance, too, since they've jumped in. Still, with the "Xenovores have reactionless drives, and Earhters don't from the start"-approach, the Earthers would be constanly on the defensive, waiting in direct orbit of any planet that has to be protected. It would be a decisive advantage of the Xenovores.

 

I believe the large distances for jumping are perfectly okay.

 

It's at this point that you need vacuum boosters, hydrogen scoops, solar sails, or some other form of propulsion which can make a 100,000 km journey take minutes rather than days or weeks.

 

All these won't help anything. They are not for fast accelleration, but for cheap travel (propellant-wise). Except for those "vacuum boosters"...

 

[...] I'd give all rockets the "vacuum booster" ability of enough NCM multipliers to make a two-time 100,000 km journey in only a few minutes.

 

How would such a vacuum booster do the trick, technically? I mean, NCM is merely a game concept, nothing that has got to do anything with rocket physics.

[MitchellS]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

Well' date=' the Xenovores would, of course, have to travel that distance, too, since they've jumped in. Still, with the "Xenovores have reactionless drives, and Earhters don't from the start"-approach, the Earthers would be constanly on the defensive, waiting in direct orbit of any planet that has to be protected. It would be a decisive advantage of the Xenovores.[/quote']

The problem with a reactionless drive is that the fastest version [available 300 years in the AW future] is only 3.33 times faster than a chemical rocket [108 KPH versus 360 KPH]. It still takes 11.5 days to reach orbit from the jump point. Reactionless drives do not even give them the ability to close from mega-range to normal range in combat. If 2 ships arrive 2,000 km apart it still takes the fighters 5.5 hour to reach the target. That seems stupid both in AW and TE, IMO.

 

I believe the large distances for jumping are perfectly okay.

The jump points don't bother me either. I understand you need some distance to safely jump, but a journey to a 2 AU space port would still months of journey just to reach earth about a shuttle craft. That seems a little too un-genre like to me. You need something to be able to by-pass that, both in AW and the TE timeframes.

 

How would such a vacuum booster do the trick, technically? I mean, NCM is merely a game concept, nothing that has got to do anything with rocket physics.

I don't think real science needs to apply here any more than it does for hyperdrives. Saying a chemical rocket can only fly 108 KPH seems stupid by any standards. 108 KPH isn't even enough velocity to get into space. While in space all propulsion from a chemical rocket [or any other type for that matter] needs to be magnified. It would take very little thrust to get a ship moving 108 KPH in space. The design of the rockets does not take that into account. That's why I believe all rockets should have a naked advantage of 8, 16, 32, 64, or more NCM for only in space. a 64x NCM chemical rocket would allow for 3,500 KPH. That seems far more reasonable and realistic to me, though still too slow to be much good.

[DrTemp]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

The problem with a reactionless drive is that the fastest version [available 300 years in the AW future] is only 3.33 times faster than a chemical rocket [108 KPH versus 360 KPH].

 

I believe one would have to change that to Cumulative Flight anyway, as suggested in Star Hero for a little bit more realistic spaceflight rules.

[MitchellS]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

I believe one would have to change that to Cumulative Flight anyway' date=' as suggested in Star Hero for a little bit more realistic spaceflight rules.[/quote']

If realism is what you are looking for then yes. If genre emulation is what you are trying to achieve then it really doesn't work; and it still does not solve the problem of ships not being able to achieve escape velocity.

[DrTemp]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

If realism is what you are looking for then yes. If genre emulation is what you are trying to achieve then it really doesn't work; and it still does not solve the problem of ships not being able to achieve escape velocity.

 

Well, the chemical rockets are obviously a mistake. With cumulative flight, a fusion rocket (or something like it) could do the job easily.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Further thoughts about the UES Centauri and the AW space combat environment

 

If you're going to use a "top speed" for spacecraft, it should be pretty high. 30,000 kilometers isn't even up to geostationary orbit. 100,000 kilometers is only about a quarter of the distance from the Earth to the moon. A ship, especially in a "space opera" environment, should be able to cover distances like this pretty quickly.

 

Realistically, a ship should be optimized for either high-thrust applications, like lifting off of or landing on a planet, OR high delta-v operations, like getting around the solar system. Most engines that are good at one won't be good at the other, although some can switch modes.

 

Remember that even a small accelleration, if applied over a long enough time, will get a vessel moving quite fast.

 

Zeropoint