final f/u Grab: Grab & Throwing after initial phase

[CorPse]

Sorry this is so confusing... I'm probably overlooking something really obvious!

 

Here's a specific example of the situation I'm thinking of:

In Phase 4 I Grab Dr. Destroyer and Squeeze him for my STR damage. In Phase 8 I decide to Throw him off the top of the building we are fighting on. Now I need to make a new attack roll vs. his DCV to make sure that the Throw succeeds, otherwise Dr. D will slip my grasp as described on pg. 387 5ER. So let's say I manage to succeed with the new Attack Roll vs. Dr. D...

 

That's not the end of the story. If I want to Throw Dr. D at a specific hex, ie one that's well off the building, don't I need to make a second Attack Roll to hit that hex? Even though I've succeeded in initiating the Throw, I still have to make an Attack Roll vs. DCV 3 to hit the chosen hex, right? This is the second attack roll I'm referring to. If this roll is missed does Dr. D slip my grasp as, again, described on pg. 387 5ER? Or do I come up with an alternate method to find where he really lands (like using the miss system for Area Effect Attacks, etc.).

 

Or can you just Throw for distance w/o making an Attack Roll at all? And if you are 'just' Throwing for distance does the character take damage? I looked in the Throwing Things section of 5ER (pg. 35) and it seems to make a distinction between throwing things for distance and for doing damage. But I'm having a hard time figuring out where something that was thrown for distance would actually land w/o using OCV and creating a situation where an Attack Roll would be needed.

 

That's as specific as I can be. It could well be I have some fundamental misunderstanding that's keeping me from seeing this. So, if I'm still too thick to get it, perhaps you'd indulge me with a discussion at DunDraCon! This is probably a weird mechanic to seem obsessed with, but I'm designing a Con scenario that will likely have a lot of Grabbing and Throwing, etc., and I just want to make sure I've got it cold before I bring a bunch of players along.

 

I don't want to take away from any more of your "writin' and keepin' Hero profitable" time.

 

Thanks again!

[Steve Long]

Re: final f/u Grab: Grab & Throwing after initial phase

 

NP — this is one of the reasons I’m here. Now’s actually a good time to ask combat questions, since I can incorporate any necessary clarifications into the COMBAT HANDBOOK in a few months.

 

Yes, as noted on 5ER 386-87, if a character wants to Throw another character at a specific target, he has to make a separate Attack Roll to hit that target. If that roll misses, the entire Throw “misses,” even if the first Attack Roll (for the Throw generally) succeeded, as noted in my previous answer:

 

If what you're asking is, "Can a character Throw a Grabbed person in an effort to hit another target (such as another character or a specific hex), miss that target, but still inflict Throw damage on the Thrown person?", then the answer is "No." There aren't any provisions in the rules for that; a miss is a miss. The GM could alter that if he likes, but generally the rules don't let a character miss/fail and still obtain some measure of success.

 

If a character is “just” throwing for distance, with no intention of causing any injury, all he has to do is succeed with the Attack Roll to make the Throw, then consult the Throwing Table. The GM can determine exactly where the target “lands” using the rules for missed area-affecting attacks or whatever other method seems appropriate to him.

 

To repeat, just to be clear: you ask, “I'm having a hard time figuring out where something that was thrown for distance would actually land w/o using OCV and creating a situation where an Attack Roll would be needed.” The answer: use the Throwing Table to determine distance generally; the GM can determine exactly where the target “lands” using the rules for missed area-affecting attacks or whatever other method seems appropriate to him.

 

To put it another way: I don’t think the HERO System needs more precise “where will he land?” rules. I’m willing to leave that determination in the wise hands of the GM. If you want more precise rules for your game, I’d definitely encourage you to concoct your own — it might even make for an interesting discussion topic on the boards.

 

I don’t think you’re all that confused — it’s just a weird situation to model in game mechanics and keep it balanced. If characters were allowed to accomplish a lot of damaging or injurious effects with Grab-and-Throw “for free” (i.e., without having to make Attack Rolls, or suffer the consequences for missed Attack Rolls), then the maneuver would become unbalancingly effective. The rules err on the side of balance, trusting the GM to adjudicate a different outcome if he feels that common sense, dramatic sense, special effects, game balance, or other factors call for one.