Size/stretching

[Sean Waters]

Kicking some ideas around...a couple of conected grumbles...

 

You may have spotted me ranting about how expensive stretching is. I noted the other day the 'cost' of being big in Hero (Size Templates 5ER 574-575)

 

Once you get to 'gargantuan' the cost of stretching exceeds everything else, and long before that it would be far cheaper to buy growth as a power rather than simulate enormous size with individual powers. Frankly I think giant characters are really rather difficult to do properly in Hero. The size templates do not, for example, include area effect for strength: at 5 doublings you would have a fist about 15 feet across: larger than a hex, and your foot would be bigger than that, so the cost of being huge is unreasonable unless you are playing in a hugh powered game. This wouldn't be so bad if giant characters were not a staple of superhero comics.

 

Also the value of the limitations just isn't enough to balance you ALWAYS getting hit, and all the other associated unpleasantness.

 

Mind you, what I really wanted to moan about was the cost of stretching. For a 5 point per inch power, you really ought to be able to use it an a movement power IMO. I mean it specifically says you can't use it as a movement power, but how then says you can reach out and grab something and pull yourself to it, and you have this stretching velocity mullarkey. Why not be honest and call it a movement power that doesn't (necessarily) require you to actually move? If you look at it that way (and the practical effect is pretty much identical) then the only advantage of stretching is the ability to attack at range. What is that worth?

 

Well, the nearest analogue is TK. TK can't be used to pull your self along but then you can't have your TK arm grabbed by an opponent, so honours even on the difference. Now say you have 60 STR TK, that's 90 points and you can reach up to 5x90=450 inches. Long way.

 

Assuming you had 30 strength already, 90 points would get you 18" of stretching and still do 12d6 damage (taking stretching momentum). Not so useful, and that is an example heavily favouring stretching as it doesn't take into consideration the cost of the attack power (STR in this case)!

 

Reach is useful, don't get me wrong, it just is nowhere near as useful as the cost suggests. I'd say 1 or 2 points per inch maximum, which should make the active cost about 3 or AT MOST 4 points per inch.

 

So, thoughts on stretching and growth? Have a a point or two or am I just crying into my beer?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Size/stretching

 

Oh, and the other thing I'd like to see for stretching is an adder for deformation, maybe 10 points, that gives you a roll of 9+points in power/5 to fit through gaps you couldn't normally fit through - each halving being an additional -2 on the roll. You could also use it to escape bonds if appropriate, including entangles of an appropriate sort (your roll would be at -1 per 5 active points in the entangle, perhaps?)

 

I know you can do this with shapeshift or desolid, it just seems daft to have to buy a bit of a rickety additional construct when you could do it with a simple adder in the stretching power: so what if it duplicates what other powers can do to an extent?

[MitchellS]

Re: Size/stretching

 

Oh, and the other thing I'd like to see for stretching is an adder for deformation, maybe 10 points, that gives you a roll of 9+points in power/5 to fit through gaps you couldn't normally fit through - each halving being an additional -2 on the roll. You could also use it to escape bonds if appropriate, including entangles of an appropriate sort (your roll would be at -1 per 5 active points in the entangle, perhaps?)

 

I know you can do this with shapeshift or desolid, it just seems daft to have to buy a bit of a rickety additional construct when you could do it with a simple adder in the stretching power: so what if it duplicates what other powers can do to an extent?

I created this adder for our game for stretching but it was 15 points [basically the same as desolidification with not through solid and doesn't protect from damage]. It has worked out fine for us so far, but we use more adders to existing powers rather than compound powers.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Size/stretching

 

Oh' date=' and the other thing I'd like to see for stretching is an adder for deformation, maybe 10 points, that gives you a roll of 9+points in power/5 to fit through gaps you couldn't normally fit through - each halving being an additional -2 on the roll. You could also use it to escape bonds if appropriate, including entangles of an appropriate sort (your roll would be at -1 per 5 active points in the entangle, perhaps?)[/quote']

For many years, I've been allowing Stretching to allow for "squeezing/narrowing" without an adder or a roll. I agree with you that Stretching is overpriced, and I find that this makes it a little more balanced and is well within genre. The size that you can squeeze through depends on how many points of Stretching you have. IIRC, I ruled that 10 points of stretching allows you to fit into a 50 cm diameter space and each additional 10 points halves that diameter. The diameter must be double what you can fit in if you want to be able to move at full speed through such a space. I found this to work pretty well. It isn't too powerful and it doesn't supplant Desolid, Shrinking, or other powers because it means you still need about 55 points to hide inside a garden hose, and about 100 to slide under a closed door. Actually sliding under a door is a little easier than this because you have the sideways space and the forward space, therefore it would only require 80 points (or 70 plus pushing). These limits can be reduced further with the appropriate Power Skill, and by going non-combat.