Ãœbermensch

[David Johnston]

Re: Ãœbermensch

 

I understand this and agree with your interpretation.

 

I do not know if I would call it "shaking up (My) sensibilities". For me it is about societal good vs. societal evil. If an individual threatens society then society must impose its values on the Ãœbermensch.

 

IMOHO

 

QM

 

Nietchze was a philosopher. For him, the activities of "destruction" and "creation" were both intellectual processes because what is going on inside of your mind is much more important than what you actually really do. The Ubermensch would have no need to kidnap Lois and threaten the city with a death ray. The freedom N aspired after was the freedom to think the unthinkable thoughts free of the moral values instilled by societal pressure in general, especially religion. (Because he, like, totally had a mad on for religion.)

But acting on those "unthinkable" thoughts, when they would surely cause the rest of society to be out to lock you up or kill you as result? N would point out that's just stupid.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Ãœbermensch

 

Well, when you can name one moral absolute that all rational people agree on in every single particular...

 

 

Honestly? That rational thought is a useful/good/justified/what-have-you tool with which to explore and analyze moral behavior - not that you have to use or obey its dictates, but rather that every particular may be analyzed with good effect using rational principles. It may be that at the end of the day, rational thought returns with "I have nothing to say on this matter", but the act of going through the exercise is good in and of itself, if only to cover your bases.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Ãœbermensch

 

Honestly? That rational thought is a useful/good/justified/what-have-you tool with which to explore and analyze moral behavior - not that you have to use or obey its dictates' date=' but rather that every particular may be analyzed with good effect using rational principles. It may be that at the end of the day, rational thought returns with "I have nothing to say on this matter", but the act of going through the exercise is good in and of itself, if only to cover your bases.[/quote']

 

Well, but that's consensus agreement rather than absolute agreement--rational people can disagree as to the degree of usefulness of rational thought, and even to the extent to which it is "rational" etc etc.

 

on the topic of the Ubermensch, it might well be that such a persona might develop/evolve on their own a set of moral principles which others might happen to find useful;)

[radioKAOS]

Re: Ãœbermensch

 

I really think most people read the big 'N' wrong. I would suggest reading this essay for some thoughts on it.

 

An overman as described by Zarathustra' date=' the main character in Thus Spoke Zarathustra, is the one who is willing to risk all for the sake of enhancement of humanity. In contrary to the “last man†whose sole desire is his own comfort and is incapable of creating anything beyond oneself in any form. This should suggest that an overman is someone who can establish his own values as the world in which others live their lives, often unaware that they are not pregiven. This means an overman can affect and influence the lives of others. In other words, an overman has his own values, independent of others, which affects and dominates others’ lives that may not have predetermined values but only herd instinct. An overman is then someone who has a life which is not merely to live each day with no meanings when nothing in the past and future is more important than the present, or more precisely, the pleasure and happiness in the present, but with the purpose for humanity.[/quote']

 

The Ubermensch is evil in the way that all change is evil, in the way that art and philosophy challenge our viewpoints, in the way that a group of concerned citizens goes about changing the world.

 

The big 'N' was against christianity because it produced a herd mentality.

 

However, N rather liked Jesus. Here was an iconoclast who is 'able to affect history indefinitely,' who was 'willing to risk all for the sake of enhancement of humanity.' One may even go as far as to say that he is a version of the Ubermensch. [Though N thought that Jesus didn't go far enough, as he chose the 'unreality' of the Kingdom of Heaven over the reality of defending himself]

 

For my two cents, I have to say that it isn't necessary for the Ubermensch to be what we consider 'comic book evil' - or even an 'anti-hero'.

 

The Nazis used N to further their goals but N didn't believe in their cause, his works were used by his sister who twisted some of the writings to suit their needs.