Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

[schir1964]

Continuous Advantage Breakdown

Constant +1/2: Turns an Instant Power into a Constant Power. As long as character continues to pay END, then the power continues as is.

Target Lock +1/2: Allows any Attack Power to continue to do damage to a target that has been successfully attacked without a new attack roll each phase. Requires LOS or Target Lock is broken.

 

This allows for more granularity and clarifies a distinct difference in how this Advantage can be used.

 

Something I've Posted Before Long Ago

Just An Idea

 

- Christopher Mullins

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

What actual benefit do you gain by turning an Instant power into a Constant power? If I still have to spend END and make an attack roll every phase, what am I getting for the +1/2?

[schir1964]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

The benefits of having these separate when you are trying to build a SFX in its entirety. Unfortunately, I am a bit limited since the there are only a couple of Powers that are Instant and Non-Attack Powers. So I'll use what I have for examples sake only.

 

Example:

Teleportation (Uncontrolled, Constant +1/2) - Teleport Room Trap

 

Or the other direction where an attack is constant but requires a roll everytime. This would likely be some type of support weapon that would have it's own END Reserve to feed it. It still costs END to use every round, but the charcter still has to aim each round.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[DangerousDan]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

Example:

Teleportation (Uncontrolled, Constant +1/2) - Teleport Room Trap

 

- Christopher Mullins

Well, since that is not useable by other or on other as an attack, the only person you can trap with it is yourself.

[DangerousDan]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

What actual benefit do you gain by turning an Instant power into a Constant power? If I still have to spend END and make an attack roll every phase' date=' what am I getting for the +1/2?[/quote']

 

Well, for one thing, the Uncontrolled advantage requires a power to be constant.

When you use an adjustment power from a Multipower or VPP and later switch away from that slot, the benefits disappear instantly, but if the adjustment power is Uncontrolled, the benefits remain until they fade away. Right now, when you build an Uncontrolled Aid, you pay for making the power constant and for a "Target Lock" that you may or may not actually get to use.

 

In another case of required Continuous, a Damage Shield is required to be continuous. As built now, the Damage Shield always hits anyone that it can hit. If you want one that requires a to-hit roll, you add a limitation, but what value is the limitation? -1/4, -1/2, -3/4?

If the constant part of continuous was separated from the Target Lock, it would be trivial to build a damage shield that required a to-hit roll. It could cost more or fewer real points than the current construction, but it would be based on fewer active points, making it easier to use in frameworks.

 

I've run across other cases where constant is useful but the "Target Lock" is not. I occasionally feel that Continuous (+1) == Just to make it more expensive (+1) I know that this isn't the entire intent, because at least half of what you get when you buy continuous is use. It's just that sometimes the other half is thrown away, but you still have to buy it. IMNSHO

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

The benefits of having these separate when you are trying to build a SFX in its entirety.

Are you saying that we should pay a +1/2 Advantage for special effects? Shirley, you can't be serious.

 

Or the other direction where an attack is constant but requires a roll everytime. This would likely be some type of support weapon that would have it's own END Reserve to feed it. It still costs END to use every round, but the charcter still has to aim each round.

Yes. That was my question. What the heck is the point of paying an extra +1/2 when you still have to pay END and make an attack roll? What are you getting for the +1/2?

 

Character A has 12d6 EB. He paid 60 points. Every phase, he can pay END and make a roll to blast a target.

Character B has 8d6 EB, Constant. He paid 60 points. Every phase, he can pay END and make a roll to blast a target. His EB looks like a continuous stream of energy, or whatever his SFX are, but there is no game mechanical difference between how he uses his power and how Character A uses his power.

 

Well, for one thing, the Uncontrolled advantage requires a power to be constant.

When you use an adjustment power from a Multipower or VPP and later switch away from that slot, the benefits disappear instantly, but if the adjustment power is Uncontrolled, the benefits remain until they fade away.

I don't think that's the case. If you Drain power from someone with a MP slot, he doesn't gain back all his points immediately when you switch to a different slot. But even if it is the case, you're saying that the benefit of +1/2 "constant" is to give you the eligibility to buy Uncontrolled, but gives no benefit by itself.

 

In another case of required Continuous, a Damage Shield is required to be continuous. As built now, the Damage Shield always hits anyone that it can hit. If you want one that requires a to-hit roll, you add a limitation, but what value is the limitation? -1/4, -1/2, -3/4?

If the constant part of continuous was separated from the Target Lock, it would be trivial to build a damage shield that required a to-hit roll. It could cost more or fewer real points than the current construction, but it would be based on fewer active points, making it easier to use in frameworks.

OK, so the advantage does nothing but allow you to buy another advantage, either Uncontrolled or Damage Shield. I don't know off hand what the limitation is for a DS that requires a to-hit roll, but it's a simple matter to apply it. (Please, let's not start up the Damage Shield debate again.)

 

I've run across other cases where constant is useful but the "Target Lock" is not. I occasionally feel that Continuous (+1) == Just to make it more expensive (+1) I know that this isn't the entire intent, because at least half of what you get when you buy continuous is use. It's just that sometimes the other half is thrown away, but you still have to buy it. IMNSHO

So what are those other cases? So far, I haven't seen one where constant actually gives you something by itself. I may very well agree with you that Continuous is too expensive, especially for certain applications, like Damage Shield (Whoops! I said I wasn't going to start up that debate. ), but for most "regular" applications, like a plain old attack power, not having to keep rolling to-hit every phase is a significant advantage, and probably is worth the full +1.

[DangerousDan]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

I don't think that's the case. If you Drain power from someone with a MP slot, he doesn't gain back all his points immediately when you switch to a different slot. But even if it is the case, you're saying that the benefit of +1/2 "constant" is to give you the eligibility to buy Uncontrolled, but gives no benefit by itself.

It appears that everything I knew about combining Adjustment powers, Constant and Uncontrolled is wrong:

 

I was certain that that switching from an Aid slot in a framework caused the effect to dissapate immediately. But now, when I look at it, the rule says that when you switch away from an adjustment slot, the effect fades as normal and doesn't disappear instantly.

 

I also remember that applying Aid to one target causes the effect to disappear from the previous target, but I cannot find that one either.

 

A 4th edition rules stated "A variable Adjustment Power may only add to one type of Characteristic or Power at a time. For example, if a variable Aid is used to add to a character's Strength, and then the variable Aid is switched to add to the character's Endurance, the Aided Strength fades immediately."

 

This text has disappeared from the fifth edition.

 

The only instant fade I can find in FRED is that if a slot or power in a Multipower or VPP is aided and the character switches away from that slot, the benefit of the aid is lost immediately and doesn't come back when switching back to the slot or power.

Switching away from a slot that receives Aid is quite different than switching away from a slot that supplies Aid. Apparently, I had them confused. However adjustment effects that reduce a slot are specifically stated as remaining.

[DangerousDan]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

I may very well agree with you that Continuous is too expensive' date=' especially for certain applications, like Damage Shield (Whoops! I said I wasn't going to start up that debate. ), but for most "regular" applications, like a plain old attack power, not having to keep rolling to-hit every phase is a significant advantage, and probably is worth the full +1.[/quote']

I have to agree that not having to keep rolling to-hit every phase is worth the full +1.

[Guest The JeRQ]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

[dstarfire]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

In playing around with some power ideas, I accidentally stumbled across a legitimate use for continous without a lock-on: wandering zones of destruction (i.e. Taz, a small tornado, etc.)

 

If used with an area of effect and the deflection rules, it seems perfect for simulating the semi-random movements of natural phenomenon.

[schir1964]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

That is also the type of thing that got me to thinking about the use of continuous.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Bloodstone]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

Damage Shields shouldn't need the lock on aspect of Continous, as the damage is applied based on the rules for the Damage Shield advantage and do not require a seperate attack roll.

[GAZZA]

Re: Optional Rule: Continous (Breakdown)

 

Actually I'm not even sure Damage Shield should need Continuous at all; it's more similar to Trigger than a Continuous attack, is it not?

 

(BTW Chris: thanks for the heads up!)