Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

[Erkenfresh]

Has anybody used resource pools from Dark Champions in a Fantasy Hero campaign? It might be a good way to balance magic and equipment based people. You could essentially have a "magic resource pool" too with newly researched spells replacing old spells as the caster desires.

[Frenchman]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

I've thought of bringing this up for our group - I wouldn't use it for spells since spellcasters allready get a price break - either a power framework or a straight up cost multiplier (usuall 1/3)

How many points do you think the equipment pool should have as a base? (since characters who need more - warriors - can increase it with points)

 

I'd lean towards something pretty low, like 15-30 (I lean towards 20 or so). After all, a big sword (bastard), big shield (+3 DCV), and good armor (6/6) weigh in at around 30 points.

 

Suggestions, comments, criticism, death threats?

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

I haven't really thought about point costs so much. But, you're right, a well equipped fighter would come in at about 30 real points which isn't much... unless you're paying 1 character point per resource point. A comparable mage would have 30 real points of spells in their "kit" for the day also at the cost of 30 points.

 

It's just a small idea I've been playing around with in my head. I'm thinking the VPP-style magic I've come up with has a lot of drawbacks. Mainly, there's no "point" in taking limitations to make the spell interesting. Get it? Point! HAH! Since the spells don't really cost any points, they just have to fit inside the VPP. But if you had a limited spell pool, you'd have a reason to pile on the limitations to lower the real cost.

[Frenchman]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

Actually, my group has found that VPP casters work best if they use limitations on their spells - that way they can fit more than one in the pool at a time. My priest usually has 4-6 spells in his pool at any given time

Unless you buy your pool as cosmic (very, very expensive) then swapping spells takes time and a skill roll - so you don't want to have to do it every time you want a different spell.

Also, with no limitations on the spells, you can't have a constant spell active at full active cost and still cast something else - so you can't raise a FF and blast someone effectively, even less so if you want to have a blessing or some other UOO spell on your friends.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

My system doesn't work on charges though. So, lowering the real cost has no benefit. I will probably go back to the drawing board with that. I essentially want to avoid "preparing spells". Perhaps another look at Killer Shrike's web site will give me some more ideas.

[Cantriped]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

I've been working on a magic system off and on for the last few months for a campaign that will probably use a resource pool. Essentially is kinda Epic-Steampunk Fantasy. and Magic is very much like a technolgy, essentially I'm using a combination of Enchanting and Runemagic.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

I've toyed with using Resource Pools in one particular High Magic FH campaign to handle Magic Items... I gave it a lot of thought at the time and decided to keep mundane equipment free, and inherent abilities like magic costing points. The idea of using Resource pools was to allow for a proliferation of magic items without ridiculous amounts of items being carried by each player. Just like DC Resource Pools, items found "in play" could be carried and used, and could exceed the pool limits, but this allowed some options that are normally a bit tetchy in most conventional FH games... Wizards with an accumulation of magic trinkets gained or built over a lifetime of study, insaitiably curious grey clad rogues who blow fortunes on collections of cryptic scrolls and mystical gems purchased from shady back alley peddlars, noble warriors with an armory in their castle and an alchemist on staff...

 

I never did run the game, but when I juggled the numbers, it worked fairly well... I just ported the various categories of Eqipment Availability into Fantasy Terms. The base pool level allowed for common, disposable, generally one shot & semi expensive items that could be bought from most big city "magic" dealers... alchemists, herbalists, etc. (As well as some access to expensive in money terms but not much better in game terms than normal items, such as a weapon without the Real Weapon limit), and then the appropriate Perk levels allow for increased access to more advanced items.

[Frenchman]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

A little off Topic first, look for the BOLD type below for my on topic post

My system doesn't work on charges though. So' date=' lowering the real cost has no benefit. I will probably go back to the drawing board with that. I essentially want to avoid "preparing spells". Perhaps another look at Killer Shrike's web site will give me some more ideas. [/quote']

I don't use a charge-based magic system either - in fact I DESPISE them. But lets not get into that.

I just mean that limitations are good on VPP spells because it lets you fit more than one at a time, and it's difficult to change the pool in combat without cosmic

You mean to say you don't run into the problem of having only 1 spell at full power if you don't use limitations?

Maybe I'm missing something, but since it's off topic I'll shut up.

 

AmadanNaBriona - I'd like to see what you did for your equipment classifications. It sounds like a great idea - did you assign an active point cap ("Bazaar-level" equipment is 50 AP or less if expendable, 30 if re-usuable, "Guild-level" is 75/45, etc... or somthing), or did you stat out each piece of equipment?

Or maybe you just winged it like many of us would do - but if you did any of the above us vultures would love to see it

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

I haven't run into any problems with my magic system yet since my campaign hasn't started.

 

Also, a very nice idea by Amadan. I might use it. Did you charge characters 1 point per 5 resource pool points as DC suggests?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

Has anybody used resource pools from Dark Champions in a Fantasy Hero campaign? It might be a good way to balance magic and equipment based people. You could essentially have a "magic resource pool" too with newly researched spells replacing old spells as the caster desires.

Yes. I did something very similar to this in a FH campaign long ago.

 

It works out fine to a point, but you have to be careful to clearly deliniate what "magical" gear can be taken in a pool, and means of acquisition before hand to suit what tone and level of magic items you want in your campaign or it can get out of hand.

 

Using Dark Champions as a model, you could probably set up a few "access" style talents that spell out exactly what sort of items a character can easily get for their kit / armory.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

Hold on -- reread your post.

 

What you are saying is that you want to have a Magic Resource Pool that is used both for magic users to pay for their spells out of, and other characters to take magic items with?

 

Not to put to fine a point on it, but if thats what you want it would be a somewhat bad idea in my opinion, but could theoretically be made to work.

 

 

If you want an example of some material that tries to balance characters that are Powers based vs characters that are Stats based versus characters that are Skills based versus characters that are Gear based, you might want to check out my MetaCyber material. It's not fantasy, but the basic ideas are all very portable. It also uses equipment pools.

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber.shtml

[Robyn]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

You could essentially have a "magic resource pool" too with newly researched spells replacing old spells as the caster desires.

 

If you wanted to encourage this, you could state that old spells and equipment have a "decay rate", after which they become unavailable until re-acquired. Keep spells and items available only at specific times, places, or events, and PC's would be grabbing new ones like mad, whenever they got the chance, just to keep themselves from being stuck in a situation with less than their full pool of powers.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

Hold on -- reread your post.

 

What you are saying is that you want to have a Magic Resource Pool that is used both for magic users to pay for their spells out of, and other characters to take magic items with?

 

Nope, I may have said that but I didn't mean that. At this point, I don't really know what I would want out of resource pools so I may sound a bit confused.

 

I think essentially, you could have seperate resource pool for spells and for equipment. A character can easily have both of these pools, there's no reason a warrior type can't use some magic or vice-versa. The point would be to balance out the people who specialize in each. A warrior has to pay points to have his equipment and a wizard has to pay points to have his spells. How do you balance out that wizards have a much wider variety of spells and thus require a larger resource pool? I dunno yet. Maybe charge 1 CP per 5 Magic RP and 1 CP per 2 Equipment RP.

 

I'll take a look at your link too. You've always got great ideas.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Equipment resource pools in Fantasy Hero?

 

The point would be to balance out the people who specialize in each. A warrior has to pay points to have his equipment and a wizard has to pay points to have his spells.

Perhaps characters have to pay for gear and perhaps characters have to pay for magic items, and perhaps characters have to pay for magic abilities.

 

Those are all things under the complete control of the GM though. Sounds like youre making a tempest in a teapot; making decisions that force your hand on other decisions.

 

There is a concept in computer programming called orthogonal programming which addresses the basic practice of designing systems that are entirely self contained and do not cause or depend upon side effects.

 

This document has a simple explanation of orthogonal design and why its useful: http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html

 

The same principle is very applicable to developing a game world. Try to make discrete decisions that have single points of interface with other decisions and don't react to side effects of other decisions.

 

When the product of a decision doesnt work correctly in all or some cases don't try to work around it in other decision; fix the source of the problem instead.

 

 

How do you balance out that wizards have a much wider variety of spells and thus require a larger resource pool? I dunno yet. Maybe charge 1 CP per 5 Magic RP and 1 CP per 2 Equipment RP.

 

This is where it is useful to make discrete decisions. For starters assess the situation. Do you have a specific issue with how a particular Magic System balances relative to the rest of the game?

 

If yes, then don't allow side effects of that imbalance to force you to alter other areas of the game to compensate -- fix the root problem and rebalance the Magic System so that it doesnt cause side effects in the first place.

 

 

I'll take a look at your link too. You've always got great ideas.

Thanks