Thoughts on Extra Time

[SpydirShellX]

I've been looking at extra time and gradual effect limitations and had some questions pop into my mind.

 

So the first thought is based on the book 5ER, p290.

First off, it lists powers as having an activation time - the effect doesn't take place until the time is completed.

My first problem is this... the book provides and extra -1/4 limitation if no other actions can be taken... However, if I went with the lockout limitation I would get -1/2 for a similar effect. Also, there is no proviso for an ability that only takes up a half-phase during the charge-up period... with the exception of continous powers that require maintaince (in the siderbar)

 

Then it lists that attacks are an exception to the normal chargeup time... but then reverses itself (with the GM's permission). The next paragraph brings me to the onset time function. This provides no point advantage between an ability that prevents you from attacking through whatever time period (with the attack roll at the end) and one that doesn't (attack roll immediately). In addition, the "onset time" varient of the ability can theoritically be used repeatedly in the time that the other one is locking out all attacks.

 

At this point we've been given some extra time variations.

1) Requires activation time and limits actions taken for and additional -1/4

2) (attack power) Requires activation time and locks out attack actions. Attack roll at the end.

3) (attack power) (GM's permission) Requires activation time, no limit on actions, including possibly reusing the power again. Attack roll at the end.

4) (attack power) (GM's permission) Immediate attack roll, no limit on actions, including possibly reusing the power again.

Requires activation time, no limit on actions.

 

The side bar also gives us

Zero phase to half-phase

The constant power requiring half-phase to maintain

Full phase plus one segment (ex. Haymaker)

 

What I don't see...

Cooldown power - A power that has an immediate attack roll than requires a cooldown time before it can be reused.

Prepared power - A power that is prepaired ahead of time and then is activated later.

Both of these seem to be possibly do-able with triggers. However, the trigger only identifies instant and zero-phase activations, not the half-phase attack action activation.

 

Stored energy power - a power that requires time to charge-up, but can be interupted without restriction - or only during the times the player declares he is charging. (Ex. a 1 turn power that requires, but the phases could be pulled from every other phase. or a power that requires 6 hours of sleep to activate, but could be taken in two 3 hour cat-naps)

 

Gradual Effect - powers with the gradual effect limitation cost identically to their Extra Time counterpart, but at least whole -1 less. Thus a gradual effect 1 turn costs -1/4 compared to a -1 1/4 for extra time. A 1 hour limitation is -1 1/4 for gradual, but a full -3 for Extra Time.

This (possibly) makes sense if you were handling the basic extra time one, where the use of the power happens only after the period of time given...you do get immediate effect from the gradual effect varient. The gradual effect does list that generally it can't be recovered back until it has run it's course. (Although healing still works).

However, when you consider that your one turn gradual effect has the exact same limitation as a delayed phase.

 

All right then, now to my thoughts as to the whole thing. There seem to be some special case Extra time uses that seem to give something for nothing. (Offset) and some other cases that are not covered. Gradual Effect seems underpowered.

 

First off, I'm going to base my costs on the Extra Time table.

Allright - setting the default extra time power use

- Starting the power is a zero-phase action

- Must wait for activation time to complete

- May take other actions while the time is occuring (including reusing the power)

- On the activating phase requires the normal activation time (Zero-phase/half-phase/attack action)

 

Take No Other actions during activation time - additional -1/2

Note that this replaces the Full Phase Time Period (Same Effect & Same Cost)

 

Cannot Move during Extra Time - additional -1/4

Cannot be taken with a single phase activation.

 

Cannot Attack during Extra Time - additional -1/4

Cannot be taken with a single phase activation.

 

Self Lockout

Power cannot be reused until time has occured.

 

Delayed Phase - remains at an additional -1/4

This can be added to any time frame amount and means that the activation phase takes is does at the normal Delayed Phase amount.

 

Extra Segment - remains at an additional -1/2

However it can be combined with the take no other actions for a -1 limit. The extra segment can't "track" a moving target after the last phase before power activation. Like Delayed Phase, this can be taken with other durational times... ex. One turn, pluss a segment.

 

No Tracking - additional 1/4

This means that the power is targeted at the begining of the attack and if the target moves during the charge-up time, the attack will miss.

 

Gradual Effect - x1/2 on limitation

Standard Gradual Effect rules otherwise. Note that Extra Time can be bought twice (once for the the startup time and once for the gradual effect afterward.)

 

Onset - +0 limitation

To-hit is rolled immediately rather than at the end of the time limit, but power doesn't take effect until the duration occurs. Note that quite a few of my optional limitations do not function with Onset.

 

Split Time - 1/2 less limitation

The time on the extra time ability can be split into two parts. The method of splitting is defined when the power is. (Ex. All but one phase / and then activation phase. or two sets of at least half the time.) For each additional -1/4, the number of splits can be doubled. Note that during the phases that the extra time is being used, it can still be interrupted. This last one shares some attributes with triggering depending on how it's designed, but always requires at least a half action at the end.

This can be used to make the Cooldown power, Prepared power or stored energy powers I discussed earlier.

 

Thoughts? Ideas?

[casualplayer]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Most of your goals can be emulated with END Battery by putting Limitations on the REC. For example a power that has to be recharged before firing again has an END Battery large enough for one shot and REC bought to however long you want it to take to return to firing capability. 12d6 EB w/ 6 END END Battery/2 REC can probably only be fired 2/turn. If you want the character to have to futz with something to bring the gun back to firing capacity put Concentrate on the REC.

 

Recoverable Charges work well also to emulate what you describe.

[Trained Chicken]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

While I also contruct these things with END Reserves and recoverable charges of various descriptions, these constructions leave me wanting more.

 

It's too bad that most applications of END Reserve running a power cost more than the unmodified power alone would! This is a good place where the rules could be cleaned up for 6th Edition.

[casualplayer]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Your suggestions for No Tracking and Onset sound like variations on the Cover rules. Does the Cover option still exist in HERO? I'll have to check to be sure.

 

Do you have some other examples of where the current rules came up lacking or are you suggesting the substitution of your ideas? I like the work that you've done but can't visualize the need that they fill.

[SpydirShellX]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Your suggestions for No Tracking and Onset sound like variations on the Cover rules. Does the Cover option still exist in HERO? I'll have to check to be sure.

 

Do you have some other examples of where the current rules came up lacking or are you suggesting the substitution of your ideas? I like the work that you've done but can't visualize the need that they fill.

 

Mainly, it's the couple cases I mentioned, and the way gradual effect seems undercost to me when compared with extra time. Plus it shared enough attributes with extra time, I thought that it really could be just a varient on extra time.

 

Onset is mainly restating the third paragraph in the extra time rules.

 

No tracking, was me thinking that the extra segment rules could be expanded to longer duration. Might be a way to represent say, a missile, that had flight time that targeted the landing area on launch. It was designed mainly with the thought of area affect attacks. Give it extra time(1 minute), No tracking, and physical manifestation.... most builds of the long range, but slower moving attack like that that I've seen tend to require a build including a summon and then have to mess things up to represent other aspects (such as the summon dying on impact, not being able to launch another missile until the first has hit, or the time it takes before the summon actually moves).

 

The other thing I was trying to accomplish was allowing the special case time limits to apply better to longer lengths of times and dealing with a few cost mismatches I had noticed.

[casualplayer]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Groovy. Thanks.

 

Seems I remember Surbrook doing a "Rage Meter" power construct in Ninja HERO that was a sweet build on an escalating power-up. Wish I had my book handy. A smart man would keep his HERO books closer to his computer.

[Lucius]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Your suggestions for No Tracking and Onset sound like variations on the Cover rules. Does the Cover option still exist in HERO? I'll have to check to be sure.

.

 

Say what? As far as I know the Cover rules are still there, but I don't see much connection between that and this.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary looks under itself

[casualplayer]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Say what? As far as I know the Cover rules are still there, but I don't see much connection between that and this.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary looks under itself

 

No Tracking sounds like you are Covering the area where your target is standing and if they move they break Cover. Onset sounds like Cover with the time delay span defined within the power.

 

Or maybe it's just me.

[SpydirShellX]

Re: Thoughts on Extra Time

 

Covering you can declare you hit the target at any time. No tracking doesn't hit until the duration is up and automatically misses if the target has moved.

 

Onset could be considered somewhat similar however, in that case you're already hit the target. There's no way for them to somehow avoid being hit even if they move.

 

Now that I put it that way, maybe Offset should be 1/2 less of a limitation.