AI's and Vehicles, and Automations Oh my!

[Checkmate]

This came up on another thread and I started thinking about it. This might be more appropriate in the Champions boards but there are some heroic level games that have powers, so I guess here is good too.

 

I have a personal bias against building a character's powers using AI's, Automations, and Vehicles. I feel it is a cheap way to get some pretty powerful abilities while by passing Active Point caps and even Character Point caps (350 points goes a lot further if everything you buy is divided by 5). I mean if you want a motorcycle, great buy a vehicle, if you want Iron Man's armor buy the powers with the appropriate limitations.

 

Consider this, you can get an always on Missile Deflection and always on Block pretty cheaply with an AI or Automation. In one phase you could half move, attack, Missile Deflect any incoming ranged attacks, and block any incoming HtH attacks, for the few points it costs to buy Missile Deflection and an Automation or two.

 

Am I the only one that has these hang ups?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: AI's and Vehicles, and Automations Oh my!

 

Actually, you can get a cheap "always on" missile deflection without an AI. Just slap Continuous and Uncontrolled on your Missile Deflection which will allow you to continue Missile Deflecting without sacrificing phases after the initial set-up.

 

Probably illegal as hell, but mechanics-wise, its quite sound.

[DiTenebras]

Re: AI's and Vehicles, and Automations Oh my!

 

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers - On sale, Cheap! Hmm... That could be a problem.

 

First off, buying armor as a vehicle just to get higher point caps or more points is power abuse, pure and simple. No GM should allow it.

 

However, some players do have legitimate reasons for buying suits (with reasonable powers) as vehicles. If the suit isn't often worn, is meant to take damage separately from the character, is vulnerable to cyberkineticists, etc., it might be acceptable, depending on the game. Keep in mind that a powered armor suit that is worn 90% (or even 50%) of the time isn't a vehicle. It's a second skin, and should cost as much as your first one. The /5 point cost really has to be a GM's call, and shouldn't put the character past the overall power level of the rest of your group.

 

As for other vehicle types, you might try enforcing the down sides of having your powers in a Vehicle. First off, Vehicles tend to be big. No using your tank to chase down a tunnel-crawling fiend, and if you roll (or fly) your vehicle into the local shopping mall, you'll be amazed at the bill for damages. Vehicles take damage separately from the character (and the base repair time is one body per day), so a single skirmish can leave your hotrod weakened for quite a while. Vehicles can be taken away (Stolen, mind-controlled if an automaton, towed ) or immobilized more easily OIF power armor can - you can't drive after the fleeing villian when you've got The Boot ! They also tend to be remarkably clumsy. Ever try to type in a bombs deactivation code when you're in a 30' tall mech and your fingertips are six inches across?

 

Two house rules you might try:

Vehicles' (and followers') powers have to stay within the active point cap for the campaign. I don't care if you did buy a 300 point vehicle - I'm not going to let you give it a 150 point laser cannon. Too bad.

One character can only spend a number of points on vehicles up to the maximum active point cap. 60 point cap? you can spend 60 points on a 300 point vehicle, 30 each on a 150 pt hovercar and a 150 point sub, or 60 on a pair of identical 225 pt superbikes. Gadgeteers still have plenty of room to buy other nifty and useful powers (and should probably spend some of the spare points on powers bought with an OIF power armor focus).

 

Just a couple ideas!

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: AI's and Vehicles, and Automations Oh my!

 

I completely agree. That 5-for-1 discount has to have a real limiting effect in order to be allowed. We can look at the different cases of the 5-for-1 stuff and see what their limits are:

 

Base: stays in one place and doesn't come with you, can be attacked/damaged/destroyed while you are out.

 

Vehicle: usually doesn't go everywhere (like indoors), you have to use your actions to operate it, it can't do everything you can do (never seen IronMan eat with through his helmet), it can be attacked/etc., while it is parked.

 

Followers: have free will, don't always do what you want, can be independantly attacked/captured/killed, they're ultimately under the control of the GM, not you, even though they can be assumed to have a good degree of loyalty/obedience.

 

Summoned creatures: you have to pay extra to make them friendly, or you have to do something to make them obey, they only stick around for a limited time, they are subject to what the GM allows to exist in the campaign, i.e., the GM decides how they act and react.

 

Multiform: you can only be one form at a time.

 

Duplication: you have to pay extra for a duplicate to have abilities different from what you already have. Duplicates are separate lives that can be lost -permanently.

 

In the case of "Always On Missile Deflection" that NSG mentions, even if it was legal, at least you'd be paying full price for it, rather than the 1/5.

[Remjin]

Re: AI's and Vehicles, and Automations Oh my!

 

Also remember that vehicles or power aemor bought as such would require skill rolls to operate to do anything in addition to using skills on their own.

 

The power armor thing is mainly a problem because the character has to operate the suit rather than it being a part of him.

 

Likewise with followers and automatons as already mentioned... they are not an extension of the character's will, they are independent in the end... even if slavishly loyal, etc.

 

I don't ascribe to absolutes. I'd say that if the concept warrants it and its well written, go for it.

 

We had a character once who was a hacker/gadgeteer. He really liked the idea that he had made his own friends due to lack of social skills and embracing the nerd totality. So he had 2 followers, which were loyal, but bickered between themselves incessantly and often got into arguments mid-mission.

 

They were helpful, they did have some neat abilities, and their builder wasn't powerful but utilitarian at times. Since he couldn't fight well, they were decently capable. The concept worked well, and though it allowed him a bit more in options, it was balanced pretty well. In that case, it was allowed.

 

If people abuse the system, disallow it. That's the biggest pitfall of HERO, no built in limits to build. That's the group's job. You can abuse the system with these types of buys or without.

 

So, basically, I'm not against them but they have to work well and not just be a way of overpowering everyone else. Concept and execution are ultimately the thing to judge, not the individual power or otherwise.