Interceptor

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

You might want to read the "Dispelling Incoming Attacks" section (5ER page 149) and simply rule that (using the same mechanics) a character can snipe at any incoming attack with a suitable Power. In any given attack, naturally, the GM and Players will have to use dramatic and common sense to determine if this can be done at all and what the results are.

 

 

Examples:

• Attacker throws a bottle, defender shoots it with his six-shooter. Bottle shatters.
  
• Attacker summons a bolt of lightning out of the sky, defender throws a rock at it. Rock explodes and lightning fails to strike target.
  
• Attacker attempts to cause pain (Ego Attack), defender modifies it with Empathy based Mental Illusions and the attack causes the target to feel nothing but a mild tingling sensation. A fly who happened to be transiting the area at the time, however, is wracked by intense pain.
  
• Attacker throws a bus, defender shoots it with his Firebolt spell. The Firebolt ignites the bus' gas tank and it explodes in mid-air.
  
• Attacker tosses a lasso, defender throws a knife and it cuts the rope.

 

Cunning plan. I like it. It is not, perhaps, quite what I was after - MD ignored the AP of the attack, so using dispel is mechanically more complex in game - but I'll have a go and see how it turns out - thankyou.

[Jaxom]

Re: Interceptor

 

I've seen the mental illusions constuct used to trick someone into firing on a friendly. The problem with using it to trick you into firing on yourself is that I would make the mentalist find a very convincing description of why you'd knowingly put yourself in the blast radius (i.e. how did you distort space so he thinks this is a safe shot) or he's going to pick a different target.

 

Regarding the forcewall idea, the issue is again why the attacker would continue with the attack. True IPE would work for me until he moved and figured out he was in a force-box.

 

I think the assessment that the 1 point wall is sufficient is the correct one in some cases and not in others... Compare it to the breaking things rules for attacking through a window... I think that Sean's example is probably the best one and unless I am mistaken it is covered in the breaking things section. Different special effects would result in different interpretations. A beam, for example, interacts differently with obstacles than a real weapon projectile or an EB.

 

Best I can come up with then is a case-by-case condition. Some tricks would work on some special effects, others would be required for other effects.

[Opal]

Re: Interceptor

 

Maybe that is not how it works' date=' but I can't see another logical way for the process to occur, nor any guidance as such under FW in 5ER. It makes it clear that an attack that breaches a FW can continue to the original target, but I simply can't see how that can apply to AoE attacks.[/quote']A FW does block line of effect, like any other wall. If you have an AoE attack that's not bought indirect, you can't target it on the other side of a wall, so you also can't target it on the other side of a FW.

 

However, a 1 DEF IPE FW is something like a glass window. You could certainly fire a grenade (even a smoke grenade that does no damage based on the power bought through it) through a window. Of course, if you shot someone with a smoke grenade you'd actually hurt him, though you wouldn't in Hero. :shrug:

 

I'd be inclinded to have an AE like a grenade go right through the power you describe - but then, I'd also let MD work on a grenade, in the first place. (And I used to be such a purist).

 

 

Also, have you considered just getting MD with UAO at range or something odd like that? One reason an AOE wouldn't be deflectable is that it's not targetting your or your hex. You can't missle deflect a dragon's breath because the target of the cone is his mouth, for instance, or you couldn't deflect a bomb hitting 20' away from you, just because you're in the blast radius (and, if you did deflect a bomb landing on you, it'd still go off). With a ranged missle defelction (Cpt America throws his mighty shield...) you could concievably deflect an AE at a point intermediate between you and the attacker. With the re-direction option, you could presumably get it to hit the attacker.

Anyway, I think, mechanically, FW is the power you're looking for, I just wouldn't count on a very weak FW doing the job. I'd say stop the attack or it goes through (slightly reduced in power), if you just want to look at the mechanics. If it doesn't go through, yes, it'd make sense that it'd go off, with it's AE centered on the point of impact, and attenuated by the FW.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

A FW does block line of effect, like any other wall. If you have an AoE attack that's not bought indirect, you can't target it on the other side of a wall, so you also can't target it on the other side of a FW.

 

However, a 1 DEF IPE FW is something like a glass window. You could certainly fire a grenade (even a smoke grenade that does no damage based on the power bought through it) through a window. Of course, if you shot someone with a smoke grenade you'd actually hurt him, though you wouldn't in Hero. :shrug:

 

I'd be inclinded to have an AE like a grenade go right through the power you describe - but then, I'd also let MD work on a grenade, in the first place. (And I used to be such a purist).

 

 

Also, have you considered just getting MD with UAO at range or something odd like that? One reason an AOE wouldn't be deflectable is that it's not targetting your or your hex. You can't missle deflect a dragon's breath because the target of the cone is his mouth, for instance, or you couldn't deflect a bomb hitting 20' away from you, just because you're in the blast radius (and, if you did deflect a bomb landing on you, it'd still go off). With a ranged missle defelction (Cpt America throws his mighty shield...) you could concievably deflect an AE at a point intermediate between you and the attacker. With the re-direction option, you could presumably get it to hit the attacker.

Anyway, I think, mechanically, FW is the power you're looking for, I just wouldn't count on a very weak FW doing the job. I'd say stop the attack or it goes through (slightly reduced in power), if you just want to look at the mechanics. If it doesn't go through, yes, it'd make sense that it'd go off, with it's AE centered on the point of impact, and attenuated by the FW.

 

 

OK, but what if it was a 5/5 FW against an 8d6 AoE? It still goes through? That's not far off a brick wall. Where, in other words, would the break point be? If, for instance you had an 8d8 FW, would the 8d6 AOE break it, and only the stun continue tot eh original target hex?

 

I like the dispel idea above, but to affect a 60 AP attack, you are going to need 18d6, or 54 points worth, and that becomes prohibitively expensive if you want to trigger it by the use of MD, to allow you to MD AoE attacks: 135 points active, 77 real to add a triggered to END linked RSR dispel to your MD.

[Opal]

Re: Interceptor

 

OK' date=' but what if it was a 5/5 FW against an 8d6 AoE? It still goes through? That's not far off a brick wall. Where, in other words, would the break point be? If, for instance you had an 8d8 FW, would the 8d6 AOE break it, and only the stun continue tot eh original target hex?[/quote']Presumably, you'd just roll the damage for the attack, if you wanted to keep strictly to mechanics, instead of letting F/X guide you. I believe a matched FW stays up (but I could be wrong: versionitis), so the attack would continue with at least 1 BOD, and a bunch of stun.

 

For a non-BOD-inflicting AE attack that really, logically should involve some kinetic energy (like a smoke/teargas/whatever) grenade, I might go so far as to handwave and give it a sort of 'causual STR' - half it's equivalent DCs in normal physical vs the FW. That's going pretty far afield, I know, but if it happened on the fly, that's how I'd be enclined to model it, since "it goes right through" and "it bounces right off" are both less than satisfying.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Presumably, you'd just roll the damage for the attack, if you wanted to keep strictly to mechanics, instead of letting F/X guide you. I believe a matched FW stays up (but I could be wrong: versionitis), so the attack would continue with at least 1 BOD, and a bunch of stun.

 

For a non-BOD-inflicting AE attack that really, logically should involve some kinetic energy (like a smoke/teargas/whatever) grenade, I might go so far as to handwave and give it a sort of 'causual STR' - half it's equivalent DCs in normal physical vs the FW. That's going pretty far afield, I know, but if it happened on the fly, that's how I'd be enclined to model it, since "it goes right through" and "it bounces right off" are both less than satisfying.

 

I agree, but I'm not sure HOW to apply the mechanics. For an AoE atatck to do ANY damage, the AoE has to go off, and if that happens, it can't happen AGIAIN if it penetrates the barrier and gets to the intended target hex.

[Opal]

Re: Interceptor

 

I agree' date=' but I'm not sure HOW to apply the mechanics. For an AoE atatck to do ANY damage, the AoE has to go off, and if that happens, it can't happen AGIAIN if it penetrates the barrier and gets to the intended target hex.[/quote']I'm not so sure about that. Say Firewing tosses a globe of plasma. Couldn't it melt through a minor obstacle before detonating? Grenades can shatter through windows to expode in a building. I think it really gets into either F/X or very persnickity builds. And if there's a disconect between the DM and players as to which way to go, you could have problems. IIRC, FRED leans more towards the 'sort it out based on F/X' school, these days, doesn't it?

 

So, if you had an AE defined as a grenade, it'd bounce of any FW that the person throwing it couldn't punch through with his STR, but it could be missle deflected by Cpt Americlone's shield. If you had a contact-fused photon torpedo, it'd go off the instant it touched /anything/, and missle deflecting it would only set it off, but even a curtain, window or cloud of gnats, let alone a FW, would stop it from going off downrange.

[vincemcd]

Re: Interceptor

 

I've read through this thread a number of times, and I could have sworn I found something official about it somewhere. I finally found said ruling in the FAQ:

 

If a character makes an attack using an Area Of Effect/Explosion attack against a hex that’s inside a Force Wall, does the “intervening” FW automatically make the attack “detonate” in the hex where it contacts the FW?

 

No. The target hex is the target hex chosen by the attacker — the FW doesn’t change that. The GM might explain the special effect of the character’s FW protecting him as “it kept the grenade from exploding right next to you,” but in rules terms having a FW up doesn’t alter the target hex of an attack.

 

This sounds like much the same thing, only firing out of a Force Wall rather than into it.

[casualplayer]

Re: Interceptor

 

This sounds a whole lot like the SFX of a Reflection, defined as preempting the attack. If you want it to work against attacks that can't normally be Missile Deflected/Reflected, then you need to make the attacker target an area close to themselves and that sounds like Penalty Skill Levels, Mind Control or Mental Illusions.