Creating Armor

[Bismark]

Re: Creating Armor

 

I generally divorce price from effect so I don't encounter any of these problems. It does mean that there is no balance (it can be cheaper to actually buy more effective armour in some cases) - but it also means I can have reallistic prices and economy. I base prices on historic prices.

 

Ditto: also, encumbrance is not directly related to DEF if you use 'realistic' armour.

 

Example: Chinese scale armour, Han period. When made of iron, the scales are 1mm thick; when made of leather, the scales are 7mm thick. 1mm iron is lighter (quite a bit lighter) than 7mm thick leather, while being rather better protection (probably about 4 [possibly 5] DEF rather than 2 DEF [3 at most]).

 

(Now, if only I could remember the arms and armour forum I got this info from - it had a detailed calculation and figures for density of various armour materials; just the sort of stuff I normally download or at least bookmark - doh! )

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

The above rule does not seem like it really balances armor use... and so I am interested in the "armor fatigue factor" which lists a per Turn END cost based on the DEF of the armor (average DEF I am assuming if using sectional armor). It lists the following costs:

 

DEF END Cost

1-3 1

4-6 2

7-9 3

 

I am wondering if anyone has used this, and how it worked?

This is how I do it. But, again, I have an overly complex method to determine the final "average" DEF of the complete set of armor.

[tomasina]

Re: Creating Armor

 

This is how I do it. But' date=' again, I have an overly complex method to determine the final "average" DEF of the complete set of armor.[/quote']

 

What method do you use? I have been finding a simple average of the sectional armor pieces and using that. Do you also apply the DCV/Dex roll penalty, or do you simply use the END cost?

 

Also, am I correct in my assumption that a fighter must pay END (per phase) based on the STR used to attack with a weapon? E.g. A fighter attacks with hammer which has a STR min of 10. He chooses to use a 17 STR in order to increase the DC by 1. He therfore must spend 3 END (17/5=3.4) to perform the attack.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tom

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

What method do you use?

I use a spreadsheet that I set up to calculate the DEF.

 

I have been finding a simple average of the sectional armor pieces and using that. Do you also apply the DCV/Dex roll penalty, or do you simply use the END cost?

Do you still have my prefabs? If so, you will notice in the notes of each piece has a 'Manuever AF' and an 'Endurance AF'.

 

To figure out the negative that I apply to the characters DEX/DCV I add together the ManAF of all the pieces and then divide that total by 3. The result is the negative modifier.

 

You do a similar thing to determine the END cost each phase for the armor. Just add together all of the EndAF's and then divide by 3.

 

The reason I have this setup is that I have made several different modifiers that increase the difficulty of manuevering in the armor but doesn't necessarily increase the DEF or even the END cost. Or any combination there of.

 

I also have materials and styles of manufacture that increase the DEF without making the armor any heaver or harder to manuever in. My spreadsheet, along with KS's armor cost formula, takes all of this into account.

 

But, you ahve to understand that I am an anomaly on these boards and I really really enjoy the crunchiness of this system.

Also, am I correct in my assumption that a fighter must pay END (per phase) based on the STR used to attack with a weapon? E.g. A fighter attacks with hammer which has a STR min of 10. He chooses to use a 17 STR in order to increase the DC by 1. He therfore must spend 3 END (17/5=3.4) to perform the attack.

Correct

[tomasina]

Re: Creating Armor

 

But' date=' you ahve to understand that I am an anomaly on these boards and I really really enjoy the crunchiness of this system.[/quote']

 

As do I... which I have incorporated so many of your ideas.

 

Does your spreadsheet generate the ManAF and ENDAF values that you included with your prefabs? ... if so... is this spreadsheet available for those like myself who like the idea of that system.

 

Tom

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

It does. Let me clean it up so that it makes sense to someone other than myself and I'll post it.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Ok, here is the spreadhseet.

[tomasina]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Thanks!

 

So just to make sure I am using your spreadsheet correctly...

 

If I buy sectional armor that covers every part of my body (all hit locations) and each sectional piece has a DEF of 5... and assuming that there are no ManAF or ENDAF modifiers...

 

Than (assuming I used the spreadsheet correctly) I would have a -5 to OCV/DEX rolls when wearing the armor... and would have a END cost of 5 per turn.

 

Did I use this correctly? I was a bit confused by the END Cost cell... since below you state that I should use the AF cell for the endurance cost and OCV/Dex roll penalties.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Thanks!

 

So just to make sure I am using your spreadsheet correctly...

 

If I buy sectional armor that covers every part of my body (all hit locations) and each sectional piece has a DEF of 5... and assuming that there are no ManAF or ENDAF modifiers...

 

Than (assuming I used the spreadsheet correctly) I would have a -5 to OCV/DEX rolls when wearing the armor... and would have a END cost of 5 per turn.

 

Did I use this correctly? I was a bit confused by the END Cost cell... since below you state that I should use the AF cell for the endurance cost and OCV/Dex roll penalties.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

The END Cost cell is ignored, actually. I left it in there for "error checking" my own math.

 

The total AF of all armor pieces divided by 3 will be the negative to your DEX/DCV rolls as well as the End Cost.

[tomasina]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Got it... so in the equation above... I would have a -1 to OCV and an END cost of 1 per turn. Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet... I am looking forward to using it.

 

Tom

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

But to be perfectly clear. If you are not building your suit of armor out of individual pieces (i.e. Breastplate, Leggings, Gauntlets, etc.) and are, instead, just arbitrarily assigning a DEF value to all or some hit locations, then there isn't any reason at all to use my system.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Got it... so in the equation above... I would have a -1 to OCV and an END cost of 1 per turn. Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet... I am looking forward to using it.

 

Tom

You're welcome

[tomasina]

Re: Creating Armor

 

Just in case anyone is interested... I have attached my armor spreadsheed... which includes all the information I use to create sectional armor, including:

 

Mayapuppies Calculator

Ghost_Archer's Armor Descriptions/Cost/Weights etc.

 

It is basically all the information I found from this thread in a single location for use by my players in assigning sectional armor to their characters.

 

-- Again, thanks to Mayapuppies and everyone else who helped me to understand armor in this system... I very much appreciate it.

 

Tom