New Mechanic: Super Block

[schir1964]

Super Block [Defense, Costs Endurance]

The Super Block power allows a character use the Block Skill to block attacks that would normally be impossible to block or attacks that would normally have severe consequences if blocked. Several variations/levels of enhanced blocking are available. A block is defined as interposing something between the target and the attack. Number of dice and type must be decided at time of purchase for each Super Block power.

 

Imperceivable Attacks

Even if an attack is not perceived (invisible, indirect, camouflaged, and so forth), if the character is aware that they are under attack it is still possible, however unlikely, to block the attack. Such attacks/situations automatically impose a penalty to the Super Block.

• 100% Imperceivable Attack (-10 Penalty To Block Roll): These attacks are 100% invisible or character is in a situation where all his perceptions to the attack are nullified.
  
• Imperceivable Attack Source (-5 Penalty To Block Roll): These attacks are perceivable but the direction where the attack will come from is unknown.
  
• Simultaneous Attacks (-2 Cumulative Per Additional Attack): Coordinated attacks that are simultaneous become progressively more difficult to block.
  

 

Area Of Effect Attacks

Attacks that are area effect may impose penalties depending on the SFX of the attack and the SFX capabilities of the target.

• Area Of Effect (-10 Penalty): Area Of Effect (Line, Hex, Radius) without (Accurate, Selective, Non-Selective) modifiers.
  
• Area Of Effect (-5 Penalty): Area Of Effect with (Selective, Non-Selective) modifiers.
  
• Area Of Effect (-2 Penalty): Area Of Effect with (Accurate) modifier.
  
• Change Environment (-10 Penalty): Standard Power.
  
• Darkness (-10 Penalty): Standard Power.
  
• Explosion (-10 Penalty): Standard Power.
  
• Megascale (-10 Penalty): Standard Modifier.
  

 

Block Power Level

The player purchases block dice (damage classes) that represents the total number of effect dice that they can potentially block. This number is called their Block Power Level (BPL). Resolution of a successful block depends on the Block Type purchased.

 

Block Type

• Absorbing Block: This type of block reduces the attack's effective damage but adds 1" of knockback per two Block Power Levels (before rolling for Knockback Reduction or applying Knockback Resistance). On a successful block, the BPL number reduces the number of Damage Dice that will be rolled.
  
• Deflection Block: This type of block changes the path of the attack so that the target of the attack will be unaffected by the attack. However, the attack continues on its new path and will strike whatever lies in that path.
  The Block Power Level is compared to number of Damage Dice.
  
  • Block Power Level >= Damage Dice - Successful Block deflects entire attack.
    
  • Block Power Level < Damage Dice (Penalty = Attack Dice - BPL) - Successful Block deflects entire attack. However, the Block Roll suffers a penalty for every Damage Die above the Block Power Level (Penalty = Number Of Damage Dice - Block Power Level).
    

  [*]Reflection Block: This type of block is so precise that the target can choose the path the attack will take and thus can designate the target of the attack.

  The Block Power Level is compared to number of Damage Dice.

  • Block Power Level >= Damage Dice - Successful Block reflects entire attack.
    
  • Block Power Level < Damage Dice (Penalty = Attack Dice - BPL) - Successful Block reflects entire attack. However, the Block Roll suffers a penalty for every Damage Die above the Block Power Level (Penalty = Number Of Damage Dice - Block Power Level).
    

 

Costs

Absorption Block: 5 Points Per 1d6 (or 1 Damage Class).

Deflection Block: 5 Points Per 1d6 (or 1 Damage Class).

Reflection Block: 10 Points Per 1d6 (or 1 Damage Class).

 

Modifiers

Difficult To Block (+1/4 Per -3 Penalty): An attack with this advantage is more difficult to block.

Easily Blockable (-1/4 Per +2 Bonus): An attack with this limitation is more easily blocked.

Area Of Effect Block (+1/2): An Area Of Effect Super Block allows the character to block Area Of Effect Attacks without the area of effect penalty.

 

Inspired by discussions in the 6th Edition Forum.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Working out the sfx of attacks is always difficult, when relating to MD or block. My 'solution' is to assume that all attacks can be blocked, with a special AoE exception UNLESS the attack is bought with a +1/4 advantage: can not be blocked/MD'd.

 

The AoE exception works like this: AoE is a two part attack: the delivery system and the AoE itself. The delivery system is blockable unless it has the above advantage, but once an AoE has gone off you can not block the damage from it.

 

I'd be inclined to make block and MD a single ability: the basic template would include the ability to block at a notional 5 point cost, and you could add to that with a 10 point bought ability 'ranged block', which allows you to block ranged attacks as well as HtH attacks.

 

I'd ALSO be inclined to change the rules for block a bit to make it clear that a block involved a deflection of an attack, not just an avoidance. When you block an attack, your roll determines how successful you are. If you fail teh roll you take full damage. If you succeed by 1 or 2 points then you take half damage and if you succeed by more then you take no damage.

 

Of course it would not be clear if an attack is unblockable until you try

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Working out the sfx of attacks is always difficult...

I wasn't through yet. (8^D)

 

I've updated the initial post. Any thoughts so now?

 

Still more to come...

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Ice9]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

This would replace Missile Deflection, correct?

 

To block multiple classes of attacks - say PD, ED, and FD - would you have to buy multiple blocks, or would there be a "Multiple Classes of Attacks" adder?

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I am a little concerned, I must admit. It seems very difficult to cater for the options from a Defence PoV, and more straightforward to do so from an Attack PoV: for example 'sight flash' generally falls into two categories: a bright or concentrated light that overwhelms your sight sense (which could presumably be blocked like a light based EB could i.e. with 'energy block' or as a physical attack (by just shielding the eyes)) OR a poke or powder in the eye (which could presumably be blocked like any physical attack).

 

Energy is too diverse a group to really use a single sfx (although we do for defences that tends to be because we assume that ED works as an insulator - against practically all energy).

 

Building the ability to block from the defensive side would mean that you have the ability to block anything - if you pay enough points. I'd rather define whether an attack can be blocked or not - sure some attacks are then unblockable BUT they should be less powerful, if an active cap is in use.

 

In any event, I think to be truly Hero, we should probably base the cost not on sfx, or even attack types but on attack cost. At present a block can turn a 2d6 punch or a 30d6 HKA. Just musing but maybe X points of block can affect up to 2X points of attack...

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

To Sean: You make some good points Sean. Let me see what I can do if we go that direction.

 

To Ice9: Yes. And it would work like Force Field as far as adding defenses, but it seems that idea might be scrapped if I can get Sean's idea to work in a concise straight forward manner.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

To Sean: You make some good points Sean. Let me see what I can do if we go that direction.

 

To Ice9: Yes. And it would work like Force Field as far as adding defenses, but it seems that idea might be scrapped if I can get Sean's idea to work in a concise straight forward manner.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

I've been thinking about this a bit recently, which might well mean I'm a bit entrenched in my position: go with your original feeling and work it through and I might well change MY direction

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Initial concept updated.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the first type. Does that mean that if xd6 damage is blocked, it would add +x to the Body of the rest of the attack before subtracting the usual 2d6 (plus possible modifiers) to determine Knockback? Does it mean you would add xd6 to the Body of the rest of the attack (effectively reducing that 2d6)? Would you include the Body of those converted dice (for Knockback purposes) and add some extra amount to the Knockback? Or Other?

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the first type. Does that mean that if xd6 damage is blocked' date=' it would add +x to the Body of the rest of the attack before subtracting the usual 2d6 (plus possible modifiers) to determine Knockback? Does it mean you would add xd6 to the Body of the rest of the attack (effectively reducing that 2d6)? Would you include the Body of those converted dice (for Knockback purposes) [i']and[/i] add some extra amount to the Knockback? Or Other?

My initial thought is to simply convert those dice affected to the Knockback Dice you would roll to determine the total number of inches of knockback, but using the numbers that had already been rolled. And yes, it would reduce the damage dealt by that much.

 

Now I haven't run the numbers so I could be way off on the balancing aspect of this.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the first type. Does that mean that if xd6 damage is blocked' date=' it would add +x to the Body of the rest of the attack before subtracting the usual 2d6 (plus possible modifiers) to determine Knockback? Does it mean you would add xd6 to the Body of the rest of the attack (effectively reducing that 2d6)? Would you include the Body of those converted dice (for Knockback purposes) [i']and[/i] add some extra amount to the Knockback? Or Other?

After further thought, I've changed the mechanic of Absorbing Block to simply doubling the total knockback rolled on the attack dice. But the dice are still reduced by the block for determining damage.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

After further thought' date=' I've changed the mechanic of Absorbing Block to simply doubling the total knockback rolled on the attack dice. But the dice are still reduced by the block for determining damage.[/quote']

 

Cool. I can wrap my puny mind around that one. Sorry if I was dense about the other.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Updated.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I like the idea of matching cost to damage deflected: in practice you'll only need half the dice of an average attack to prevent yourself taking damage as any remainder could be stopped by defences.

 

Presumably you could further limit the block power against sfx: only block electromagnetic radiation, for example, would be -1, perhaps.

 

I'm not so keen on the 'unblockable' and 'blockable'. I would rather assume that every attack is blockable unless bought with a +1/4 advantage (only blockable by certain sfx) or +1/2 (not blockable)

 

The +1/4 version, to use an example, might be applied to the water cannon you mentioned. A water cannon 'blast' could be blocked by a sufficiently massive character or one whose powers, for instance include water control or telekinesis that affects porous.

 

I prefer that approch because no one is in any doubt as to whether an attack is blockable or not - it is defined.

 

Absorbing block is not balanced IMO: that is too much KB. I appreciate it will tend to be bought by characters who are strong and have KBR, but even so...perhaps +1" of KB per 3 or 4 dice blocked? Otherwise you might well wind up blocking and taking more damage from the KB than you would have from the attack.

 

Finally we need to decide how this interacts with the 'basic' form of block. I'd suggest that the basic form of block (the one everyone has) is, in effect, a 2d6 deflecting (or possibly absorbing) block that only works against normal physical attacks. We might need a component for martial arts that increases the block dice. Shields and such could be bought as 'super block', allowing a character so equipped to use block against other attack types, and to apply more dice.

 

Base Template Block: 2d6 deflecting block (10 points) only v normal attacks (-1) only v physical attacks (-1): total cost 3 points.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Presumably you could further limit the block power against sfx: only block electromagnetic radiation' date=' for example, would be -1, perhaps.[/quote']

Correct. That is part of the concept.

 

I'm not so keen on the 'unblockable' and 'blockable'. I would rather assume that every attack is blockable unless bought with a +1/4 advantage (only blockable by certain sfx) or +1/2 (not blockable).

I'm not so sure this is a good idea either as a default.

 

Basically what you are saying is that by default anyone with a bare bones Super Block could block the following attack:

Transform (Area Effect, Indirect, Invisible Power Effects - All, Damage Shield, Uncontrolled, No Normal Defense)

 

This means Super Block is getting a lot of free advantages that no other power would normally get for free. Do you still suggest that Super Block should be able to block this power by default?

 

Side Note: I do have a SFX in mind for the above power, but that is another story. (8^D)

 

The +1/4 version' date=' to use an example, might be applied to the water cannon you mentioned. A water cannon 'blast' could be blocked by a sufficiently massive character or one whose powers, for instance include water control or telekinesis that affects porous.[/quote']

This effect should already be handled by some sort of "Scale" combat mechanic (but currently doesn't exist). Until then, Area Effect Super Block already fills this roll.

 

I prefer that approach because no one is in any doubt as to whether an attack is blockable or not - it is defined.

Actually, so is mine. You will notice that all of my examples show builds with or without certain advantages. The examples are not necessarily SFX based as far as the determination, but by what advantages are required to build those SFX. Nothing can fix the interaction between two powers where one SFX was allowed to be built incorrectly.

 

The only exception would be the Area Of Effect conundrum since Area Of Effect doesn't have a mechanic to define the Delivery Method from the Damage Effect. But that is a problem with Area Of Effect mechanic rather than the Super Block mechanic.

 

Absorbing block is not balanced IMO: that is too much KB. I appreciate it will tend to be bought by characters who are strong and have KBR' date=' but even so...perhaps +1" of KB per 3 or 4 dice blocked? Otherwise you might well wind up blocking and taking more damage from the KB than you would have from the attack.[/quote']

Perhaps, but I would rather see some hard numbers or some play results that support that before I change it out of hand.

 

Finally we need to decide how this interacts with the 'basic' form of block...

I built Super Block as a standalone mechanic so that those who like how Normal Block works now can still use this mechanic. However, this is my take on how I would envision Normal Block to be redefined as a separate issue.

 

Normal Block only affects Hand-To-Hand attacks and again, Block is defined as interposing something between the target and the attack. As far as damage scaling, I thought perhaps using one's own STR value to determine how much damage can be blocked. If a normal object is used, then some sort of translation of DEF/Body might be used. For special objects (Power Built: Shields, Weapons, Focii), then the build itself would be used to translate how much damage can be blocked. Just Some Thoughts.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

...........................

 

 

I'm not so sure this is a good idea either as a default.

 

Basically what you are saying is that by default anyone with a bare bones Super Block could block the following attack:

Transform (Area Effect, Indirect, Invisible Power Effects - All, Damage Shield, Uncontrolled, No Normal Defense)

 

This means Super Block is getting a lot of free advantages that no other power would normally get for free. Do you still suggest that Super Block should be able to block this power by default?

 

Side Note: I do have a SFX in mind for the above power, but that is another story. (8^D)

 

Well...yes, assuming that the attack is detectable by the character in some way, despite the IPE. IPE is something that needs a proper breaking down anyway, but I would not allow an 'active' defence against an undetected attack any more that I would allow an attack against an undetected target.

 

I've also never understood why 'indirect' can be used to bypass 'block', especially at present when the sfx of block can be 'moving out of the way'. Indirect should be blockable by default.

 

The point is that if you don't want the attack to be blockable, you take an advantage or adder to make it unblockable. I'd expect many types of superblock in any event to take a limitation 'not v attacks against exotic defences', but that is up to the player.

 

 

This effect should already be handled by some sort of "Scale" combat mechanic (but currently doesn't exist). Until then' date=' Area Effect Super Block already fills this roll.[/quote']

 

Currently there is no 'scale' mechanic, and i do not see why someone with 'affect porous TK' should not block a water cannon blast - I'd certainly build it with a level of 'blockable only by certain sfx'.

 

 

Actually' date=' so is mine. You will notice that all my examples show builds with certain advantages or without. The examples are not necessarily SFX based as far as the determination, but what advantages are required to build those SFX. Nothing can fix the interaction between two powers where one SFX was allowed to be built incorrectly.[/quote']

 

I'm really not keen on power modifiers doing several things at once - we should break down power modifiers tot he smallest part that is worth paying for: AoE should not include 'unblockable' automatically - you might be able to deflect a grenage but you might also be able to block a lightning strike (especially if you have weather powers too) or a NND (X-Ray) if you have, for example, a neutronium shield.

 

I'm simply saying that if you do not envisage a power being blockable, pay for it to be unblockable (but your advantage costs are too high - an unblockable EB would cost as much as am AoE (radius) EB). the onus is then only one one person - the attack builder - to define how the attack works. You are doing that - but making the assumption that not every attack starts equal or that some advantages/sfx carry 'unblockable' with them.

 

The only exception would be the Area Of Effect conundrum since Area Of Effect doesn't have a mechanic to define the Delivery Method from the Damage Effect. But that is a problem with Area Of Efect mechanic rather than the Super Block mechanic.

 

If you assume that the AoE is blockable as a default any problems with the AoE mechanic go away - and then you can pay for the AoE to be unblockable or blockable by limited sfx as appropriate.

 

 

Perhaps' date=' but I would rather see some hard numbers or play results that support that before I change it out of hand.[/quote']

 

12d6 EB v 12d6 absorbing block. No damage, base 24-7 (average roll) = 17" KB, and, if you hit something hard enough, 17d6 damage.

 

My way, same thing, you'd add 3 or 4 to the base KB, which would then be 15 or 16 -7" (for 8" or 9" KB). At least that way you are not taking more damage from blocking than you would if you had not.

 

Also - just noted - you are rolling both the block dice and the damage dice - wouldn't it just be easier and quicker to simply subtract the block dice fromt he damage dice and roll the remainder? If that is what is intended, I'm being confused by the 'Largest die to smallest die' thing.

 

 

I built Super Block as a standalone mechanic so that those how like how Normal Block works now can still use this mechanic. However, this is my take on how I would envision Normal Block to be redefined as a separate issue.

 

Normal Block only affects Hand-To-Hand attacks and again, Block is defined as interposing something between the target and the attack. As far as damage scaling, I thought perhaps using one's own STR value to determine how much damage can be blocked. If a normal object is used, then some sort of translation of DEF/Body might be used. For special objects (Power Built: Shields, Weapons, Focii), then the build itself would be used to translate how much damage can be blocked. Just Some Thoughts.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

The trouble with relating block to STR is that you do not have a set cost for it for the base template AND it increases the utility of STR - again. Reducing any attack by 2 dice is quite significant. In a 60 AP game reducing a 12d6 attack to a 10d6 attack means the difference between 18 stun through defences and 11 stun through defences.

 

I also do not see why any physical normal attack can not be deflected, including thrown objects - if someone hurls a medicine ball at you you can deflect the force of it with a block.

 

NB against no range attacks, deflecting block is always going to be a better option that absorbing block - no danger of something else getting hit.

 

 

 

 

PS I like to think I'm being vigorous rather than picky but you might not agree

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Well...yes' date=' assuming that the attack is detectable by the character in some way, despite the IPE. IPE is something that needs a proper breaking down anyway, but I would not allow an 'active' defense against an undetected attack any more that I would allow an attack against an undetected target.[/quote']

Okay, so you do have set of things that Block by default should not be able to affect. They are all grouped under Perception. If an attack can not be perceived then you don't allow Block to affect it.

 

However, by admitting this all you've done is simply change the definitions of some of the other mechanics which should be more difficult to block by default.

 

• Indirect (Any Direction): If a character does not know where the attack will come from, then they will have trouble perceiving the attack, thus this level Indirect need to impose a penalty to Block Roll by default.
  
• Invisible Power Effects (All): A power with this level of Invisible Power Effects completely negates the Block Roll since the character can't perceive the attack and should do so by default.
  
• No Normal Defense (Defense = Not Looking): Again, the block is completely nullified with this build and it should do so by default.
  

 

I've also never understood why 'indirect' can be used to bypass 'block'' date=' especially at present when the sfx of block can be 'moving out of the way'. Indirect should be blockable by default.[/quote']

Well, you've convinced me that Indirect should be blockable by default, but as you can see above, I think it obvious by your own definitions that Full Indirect should impose penalties to Block by default. Indirect just needs to be redefined to better reflect the difficulty it imposes on being able to block it. And this may be the solution to many of the other complaints you have concerning this.

The point is that if you don't want the attack to be blockable' date=' you take an advantage or adder to make it unblockable. I'd expect many types of superblock in any event to take a limitation 'not v attacks against exotic defenses', but that is up to the player.[/quote']

I have no problem with this since it is dealing with an absolute nullification of the block mechanic just like not perceiving the attack. However, I just think that some advantages already incorporate a level of this by default due to their mechanical definitions.

Currently there is no 'scale' mechanic' date=' and i do not see why someone with 'affect porous TK' should not block a water cannon blast - I'd certainly build it with a level of 'blockable only by certain sfx'.[/quote']

I should have addressed the TK Advantage Porous directly when you brought it up before.

 

But first, just like there is no "Scale" mechanic, there is no mechanic in Area Of Effect that differentiates the Delivery Method from the Damage Portion of the attack. In both cases, this is not a argument against the new mechanic and in both cases it is an argument for correcting these failures to include critical components that are vital for building certain concepts.

 

Area Of Effect when used to build very common SFX (Contact Gas Attacks, Liquid Based Attacks, Sound Based Attacks, Energy Based Attacks - Light/Microwave) fills the defined area with the Effect of the attack. So a bare bones Block should not by default be able to block these attacks. Same goes for Area Based Powers (Change Environment, Darkness, Images). Theoretically a character could block a portion of the attack in some cases, but that doesn't help them as far as actually blocking the effect of the attack which is hitting them everywhere else.

 

The obvious counter to these is to apply Area Of Effect to the Block power.

 

Now, just like Area Of Effect, the Affects Porous Advantage should also grant the character the ability to block certain SFX matching attacks (Area Effect, Indirect, and so forth). But this is like allowing Personal Immunity to protect you from an identical or similar attack used against the character even though Personal Immunity technically does not allow protection from attacks originating from other characters.

...if you have' date=' for example, a neutronium shield.[/quote']

I've covered most of this posts critiques in my responses above.

 

But now you've brought up another excellent area of discussion... Block is defined as interposing something between the target and the attack.

 

I think it makes more sense to build the Neutronium Shield with Super Block as part of the build. I presume it would also include a bonus to the Block Maneuver and possibly some Defenses. If the character can interpose something that is external to the character, then it has the potential to block any attack (Area Of Effect, No Normal Defense, Invisible Power Effects) depending on how the Shield is built and defined.

 

Most of my discussion prior was presuming that the character with Super Block was using themselves to block the attacks in question. In these cases, I believe the default as I've described should stand. That is why I kept referring to a Bare Bones Super Block (Character is using part of themselves to do the blocking, nothing external).

 

So this may be where there has been some misunderstanding of the concept and application. And it may address some of your concerns also since it will allow for more modifiers to specifically address the blocking of certain things by default.

 

I do believe that a big part of the problem is that some Advantages are not broken down enough to allow for specific application in order to simulate certain concepts accurately (Area Of Effect, Indirect, and so forth).

If you assume that the AoE is blockable as a default any problems with the AoE mechanic go away...

I simply disagree. The problems don't go away, you've just moved them around. As I've demonstrated above.

 

Now onto the Absorption Block critique...

 

Let's do an equal comparison based on what you gave me:

 

0d6 Absorbtion Block

12d6 Energy Blast vs 0 Defenses

Attack Damage = 12d6 Damage

Potential Knockback Damage: 12 - 7 = 5d6 Damage

Total Damage = 12d6 + 5d6 = 17d6 Damage

 

12d6 Absorbtion Block

12d6 Energy Blast vs 0 Defenses

Attack Damage = 0d6 Damage

Potential Knockback Damage: (12 x 2) - 7 = 17d6 Damage

Total Damage = 0d6 + 17d6 = 17d6 Damage

 

Wait... how is this different?

Also - just noted - you are rolling both the block dice and the damage dice...

Aha!! I knew there was disconnect somewhere.

 

There is no rolling of Block Dice, it is just a threshold number used for comparison.

 

1) You roll Damage Dice and count Body (For Knockback Purposes)

2) You remove the number of dice equal to the Block Dice you purchased. The only trick here is that order of dice removed is largest to smallest.

3) Damage Dice left is what gets applied to defenses as normal.

 

I definitely need to explain this better.

The trouble with relating block to STR is that you do not have a set cost for it for the base template AND it increases the utility of STR - again...

No argument here, my proposal above was to keep things consistent, and STR makes more sense for stopping bigger attacks. But personally, I don't have problem with Block as is (if it is redefined as only being against Hand-To-Hand or Hand Thrown attacks).

 

I also don't have a big problem with what you've suggested either.

I also do not see why any physical normal attack can not be deflected' date=' including thrown objects - if someone hurls a medicine ball at you you can deflect the force of it with a block.[/quote']

Perhaps you could, I'm not so sure I could given my strength. Also, I don't really classify hand thrown attacks as being Ranged Attacks (x5 Active Points Range).

NB against no range attacks' date=' deflecting block is always going to be a better option that absorbing block - no danger of something else getting hit.[/quote']

By itself, no it is not. Nor is it meant to be since it is geared toward completely different concepts. This is like trying to compare AVLD vs NND. They aren't comparable since they target completely different concepts.

PS I like to think I'm being vigorous rather than picky but you might not agree

No, you are asking the right questions. I think we are coming at it from different perspectives which means we may have different end goals we are trying to meet.

 

Keep hammering away. I'm liable to crack under the pressure. (8^D)

 

I'm sure we will get to some agreement as to what will work best.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

On the 'undetectable attack' thing, I note that there is a mechanic for attacking invisible characters (or attacking when you are unable to sense) - in essence you are OCV 0 if you can not get a targeting or non-targeting sense 'lock', or 1/2 OCV if you can only get a non-targeting sense 'lock'. The same could easily be used for block, rather than making invisible attacks unblockable per se - if you have your guard up it is possible you might deflect an incoming attack even if you do not sense it coming.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

...........

 

Now onto the Absorption Block critique...

 

Let's do an equal comparison based on what you gave me:

 

0d6 Absorbtion Block

12d6 Energy Blast vs 0 Defenses

Attack Damage = 12d6 Damage

Potential Knockback Damage: 12 - 7 = 5d6 Damage

Total Damage = 12d6 + 5d6 = 17d6 Damage

 

12d6 Absorbtion Block

12d6 Energy Blast vs 0 Defenses

Attack Damage = 0d6 Damage

Potential Knockback Damage: (12 x 2) - 7 = 17d6 Damage

Total Damage = 0d6 + 17d6 = 17d6 Damage

 

Wait... how is this different?

 

..............

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Surely you jest, Chistopher: there is a world of difference between 12d6+5d6 damage and 17d6 damage:

 

The first does 42+18 stun/Body (or after 2DC defences), 18/0 damage through defences.

 

The second does 60/17 stun/body, or 36/0 through the same defences - twice as much damage through defences.

 

I acknowledge that that would require a solid object in the KB path with at least 17 (Body+DEF) but even if that is NOT there, you don't want to block and wind up 34m away, or go cannoning into the poor helpless normals behind you that you were trying to shield.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

.......................

Aha!! I knew there was disconnect somewhere.

 

There is no rolling of Block Dice, it is just a threshold number used for comparison.

 

1) You roll Damage Dice and count Body (For Knockback Purposes)

2) You remove the number of dice equal to the Block Dice you purchased. The only trick here is that order of dice removed is largest to smallest.

3) Damage Dice left is what gets applied to defenses as normal.

 

I definitely need to explain this better.

 

.................

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

 

I'd prefer to simply reduce the attack by the number of 'dice' in block before rolling.

 

Here's why -

 

1. It is quicker to roll a smaller number of dice than roll a large number, order them and discard (even though it works well for the explosion mechanic, it works because you are potentially dealing with several targets)

 

2. Doing it the roll, order, discard, gets rid of the big dice first: I'd expect to only need about 1/3 of the dice in an expected attack as block dice to bring it below the 'damage through defences' threshold, whereas with a deduct then roll scenario, I'd expect to need about 1/2 the dice int he expected attack. Doing it the way you suggest makes 'super block' effectively very cheap. The effect is even more pronounced for Body damage of normal attacks.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Arrrggh... you've convinced me on several things, but I don't haven't had the time to respond as needed or make any changes... soon though.

 

- Christopher Mullins (8^D)

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Surely you jest' date=' Christopher: there is a world of difference between 12d6+5d6 damage and 17d6 damage:[/quote']

Yes, but you gave me the impression that the potential damage to a non-def target were different to start with. I was just checking to make sure that both had the same damage potential vs a 0 DEF target.

 

Defenses do make difference.

The first does 42+18 stun/Body (or after 2DC defenses), 18/0 damage through defenses.

 

The second does 60/17 stun/body, or 36/0 through the same defenses - twice as much damage through defenses.

 

I acknowledge that that would require a solid object in the KB path with at least 17 (Body+DEF) but even if that is NOT there, you don't want to block and wind up 34m away, or go cannoning into the poor helpless normals behind you that you were trying to shield.

Agreed.

 

However, I can't help note that this is the corollary problem with Objects with the current rules. A solid 2-Hex object (6 DEF/6 Body) is easier to attack through than two 1-Hex objects (6 DEF/3 Body) per the rules as written. But that's a different issue.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

Yes, but you gave me the impression that the potential damage to a non-def target were different to start with. I was just checking to make sure that both had the same damage potential vs a 0 DEF target.

 

Defenses do make difference.

 

Agreed.

 

However, I can't help note that this is the corollary problem with Objects with the current rules. A solid 2-Hex object (6 DEF/6 Body) is easier to attack through than two 1-Hex objects (6 DEF/3 Body) per the rules as written. But that's a different issue.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

It does work out the same in the example I picked - let's see if that works generally. We take a 15d6 EB and 15d6 block.

 

We go from 15d6 +8d6 KB damage to 0d6 + 23d6 KB damage.

 

8d6 EB with 8d6 Block

 

We go from 8d6+1d6KB to 0d6+9d6 KB

 

Yes, it does seem to work across the board, using averages BUT ONLY if you have full block.

 

If you try 6d6 block against a 12d6 attack -

 

You go from 12d6+5d6KB to 6d6+17d7KB, and that IS considerably more.

 

That would mean that a little super block is worse than no super block at all.

 

I'm convinced that the added KB has to relate to the number of super block 'dice' and should be an adder not a multiplier, looking at these figures.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

...I'm convinced that the added KB has to relate to the number of super block 'dice' and should be an adder not a multiplier' date=' looking at these figures.[/quote']

That's the concept I was looking for! It got lost in the previous posts.

 

Okay, I've updated the concept so that for every 2 Block Power Levels with an Absorption Block the character suffers an automatic 1" Knockback on top of what is actually rolled by the damage dice.

 

Block Type

• Absorbing Block: This type of block reduces the attack's effective damage but takes an automatic 1" of knockback per two Block Power Levels. On a successful block, the BPL number reduces the number of Damage Dice that will be rolled.
  

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Super Block

 

I'd avoid the word 'automatic' which may be interpreted t mean you take at LEAST that much KB and suggest a slight wording modification to: +1" KB (before rolling for KB reduction or applying KBR) per 2 dice of blocked attack.