Thoughts on alternate killing attack mechanic inspired by APG

[Guest steamteck]

In the APG on page 136, it describes an alternate way of doing armor piercing where AP removes one point of defense per damage class. It seems to me that might be a nice alternate way of doing killing attacks. Normal folks would have their PD/Ed quickly reduced to zero by this method. Defense would be hardened or just high defenses.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Thoughts on alternate killing attack mechanic inspired by APG

 

Normals really don't benefit much from their defenses anyway. All it means is that the guy with 2 defenses drops to zero instead of having his defenses wiped out.

 

With AP now +1/4, a 12 DC attack is either 12d6 Normal (averaging 42 Stun, 12 BOD) or 9.5d6 AP (averaging 33.5 STUN, 9.5 BOD). Reducing defenses by 12 makes the AP attack get 3.5 STUN and 9.5 BOD more than the normal attack past defenses, so it would be a much more effective BOD-enhancing strategy than STUN enhancing. If the opponent has 20 defenses, the normal attack does 22 STUN, 0 BOD and the AP attack does 25.5 STUN and 1.5 BOD - is that a sufficient advantage to justify it being useless against targets with hardened defenses? Guess that depends how often you see hardened defenses.

 

It would, however, be extremely effective against automatons, barriers and entangles. A 6d6, 6 defense entangle takes 9.5 BOD per hit from the AP attack, and even an 18 defense force wall collapses to an average 12 DC hit. So AP becomes a staple in multipowers to remove impediments that only take BOD damage.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Thoughts on alternate killing attack mechanic inspired by APG

 

Normals really don't benefit much from their defenses anyway. All it means is that the guy with 2 defenses drops to zero instead of having his defenses wiped out.

 

With AP now +1/4, a 12 DC attack is either 12d6 Normal (averaging 42 Stun, 12 BOD) or 9.5d6 AP (averaging 33.5 STUN, 9.5 BOD). Reducing defenses by 12 makes the AP attack get 3.5 STUN and 9.5 BOD more than the normal attack past defenses, so it would be a much more effective BOD-enhancing strategy than STUN enhancing. If the opponent has 20 defenses, the normal attack does 22 STUN, 0 BOD and the AP attack does 25.5 STUN and 1.5 BOD - is that a sufficient advantage to justify it being useless against targets with hardened defenses? Guess that depends how often you see hardened defenses.

 

It would, however, be extremely effective against automatons, barriers and entangles. A 6d6, 6 defense entangle takes 9.5 BOD per hit from the AP attack, and even an 18 defense force wall collapses to an average 12 DC hit. So AP becomes a staple in multipowers to remove impediments that only take BOD damage.

 

Wait, isn't DC done by dice and not active points? Damage Negation stops DC regardless of any advantages on that DC (AP or AoE or whatever), so wouldn't that apply here to? So your 9.5d6 AP attack would only drop defense by 9 (rounding for the defender), not by 12. Or did I misread something? The AP attack would still be the go-to power against Entangles and such, but it is a little more reasonable.

 

As much as I dislike the Killing Attack structure, I don't think I would use this AP option as a replacement, precisely for the reasons Hugh mentions - they become inordinately effective at destroying stuff.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Thoughts on alternate killing attack mechanic inspired by APG

 

Wait' date=' isn't DC done by dice and not active points? Damage Negation stops DC regardless of any advantages on that DC (AP or AoE or whatever)....[/quote']

No. Damage Classes are generally based on Active Points. See the Determining Damage chapter (pp. 96-102) of 6E2. The rate at which Damage Negation reduces damage is dependent upon Advantages such as Armor Piercing. There's even a relevant quote under Damage Negation itself:

 

See the Damage Class table on 6E2 97 for an easy reference for the effects of removing DCs from attacks' date=' depending on their base cost and/or Advantages.)[/quote']

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Thoughts on alternate killing attack mechanic inspired by APG

 

No. Damage Classes are generally based on Active Points. See the Determining Damage chapter (pp. 96-102) of 6E2. The rate at which Damage Negation reduces damage is dependent upon Advantages such as Armor Piercing. There's even a relevant quote under Damage Negation itself:

 

Okay, thank you for that clarification. Obviously I shouldn't be reading rulebooks so late at night. So first rule to note: Damage Class is a function of Active points. Second rule to note: drink more coffee.