Hugh Neilson

As noted above, I would allow other powers to be added to martial maneuvers for the "weapon element" price of 1 point. I don't think allowing the Flash to combine with Martial Strike is any more problematic than allowing it to be combined with a Brick's punch (normal strike).

Are we looking at the same page 74 (6e v2)? Your quote appears to be from the top right column, which discusses Multiple Attacks (full phase action with CV penalties), not Combined Attacks (ordinary attack action requiring a half phase with no CV penalties). It's unfortunate that Combined Attack is buried in the middle of the Multiple Attack rules instead of having its own standalone entry.

Unrelated to this thread, but a setting like this, presented with "here are abilities that various races can buy" (with as little or as much "you need to be trained in this to add that", limitations based on total CP, etc.). rather than "here are some examples; use the Tomes to build your own, would make a fantastic "powered by Hero" game. Something very different from the classic D&D/fantasy tropes that would be very difficult to duplicate by modifying those rules, but a game you could pull out of the box, build characters for and start playing.

I digress, but... Hardier is the opposite of the D&D elf, who have always taken CON penalties, and they have never enjoyed a bonus to healing (not that this matters in D&D where natural healing rarely is important). Law/social advancement depends on culture - D&D elves were a chaotic breed. Dwarves have always been the craftsmen, especially for weapons and armor. I found the elven advantage in D&D to be "you are a fighter and a wizard only one level behind the pure fighters and pure wizards". Later editions have solved that, but you were not dealing with the issue at that time. Of course, every "alternate race" tends to be better than humans at something. Really sitting down with the races compared helps a lot - I find more balance in newer editions of D&D type games, but the result tends to be "race X makes the best Class Y". The issue is pretty easy in a point-based system. You can buy up all of the attributes you note above, but you have no more points than anyone else to spend. END DIGRESSION On the one hand, there is no need for them to compare their world to ours. On the other hand, the players perceive through the lens of our world. Water would be frozen much of the year, which we will perceive as "cold" whether or not it is "cold" for them. Would they evolve to see better in the dark, or would they evolve to be more reliant on senses of hearing and smell? Would they evolve at all, given life on Earth began in the liquid water? Fire will not give off less light, so how does that affect their "nightvision"? Every departure from "baseline earth norm" tends to make it tougher for players to grasp the game world, so I'd err on the side of "similar world" (or, at least, similar to part of our world) with fantastic creatures perhaps interacting differently (cold-blooded races that tend to hibernate all winter, or retreat to heated caverns, for example).

Or just not have a campaign that runs for many millennia? That helps support "no elves"

ACK! BAD MATH!!! 90 Multipower Pool 18 m +50 STR and +38 meters running 88 AP 18 m 10 levels shrinking, 0 END 126 points That makes me feel better that the system hangs together with at least comparable costs. Thanks, Doc. I still got my Shrinking to 0 END and no reduction to my base 12 meters running, for a 2 point savings over "reduced by shrinking", though, so the limitation is light. The limitation also forces many abilities into lockstep, as I had to buy the running up high enough to match the STR boost and the Shrinking. A 60 point pool would get +60 STR (or +50 STR and +10 meters running) and 10 levels Shrinking that cost END, though, at a cost of 60 + 12 +12 = 84. 10 levels Shrinking (60 points) and +60 STR reduced by Shrinking (48 points) would cost 108. It seems like there are two types of Shrinking in the comics. Those who still have enough STR and movement to be effective in combat (e.g. The Atom) and those who fly and blast (e.g. the Wasp), for whom loss of running speed or STR never seems to come up. The Reduced by Shrinking model seems like it would be most point-efficient when you have many abilities all reduced by Shrinking. The side effect on Shrinking would be the better approach when Shrinking is the high cost ability, but it has to reduce other abilities by a lot to get that big limitation. I like the multipower. You can use Shrinking or other abilities, which is what a multipower (or even a VPP) is intended to simulate.

I can't disagree with Massey. There are things D&D does not do well, but there are also things it does well. D&D is prepackaged - Hero requires more work. As has been set out well above, Hero provides more options and greater flexibility. WIth this comes an unavoidable increase in complexity. If the players are happy with their elves, dwarves, wizards, clerics, fighters, rogues, etc. all advancing on pre-designed paths, selecting from pre-designed feats, paths and spells, etc., then there is no reason to change. If the players are asking why their Dwarf can't be more skilled in woodcraft than mining (he's just a dwarf raised in the forest) or their wizard can't wear heavy armor, or their fighter can't know three spells (a first level, a third level and a seventh level) and no more magic, or they can't attempt to trip, or block those incoming attacks, or Dive for Cover to avoid that dragon's breath - if they are looking for greater flexibility - then a change merits consideration.

Years ago, I recall a gaming magazine questioning how to build the Wasp, whose blasts gain power as she loses size. Linked to Shrinking is the obvious answer, but his less obvious, and more elegant, solution was Shrinking, Always On and a Multipower of Blast and "buy off the Always on". If she devotes more points to being full-sized, they come out of the Blast. Multipower for tradeoffs feels like something vastly underused.

So, +50 STR, reduced by shrinking - 40 points and +38 meters Running (+38) and all running Reduced by Shrinking (-10), plus 10 levels of Shrinking (60 points) = 128 points [Steve suggests loss of 5 AP per level of shrinking] OR +50 STR for 50 points, +38 meters running for 38 and 10 levels of Shrinking, Extreme Major Side Effects (lose 5 STR and 5m running/level of shrinking), occurs automatically (-2 limitation) so 20 CP for a total of 108 points [Steve suggests this side effect as an alternative] OR 90 Multipower Pool 18 m +50 STR and +38 meters running 88 AP 18 m 10 levels shrinking, 0 END for 126 points, and now my shrinking costs no END. Perhaps that -1/4 limitation is a bit light (but not as light as I initially thought)?

Perhaps a middle ground would be more suitable, and could even address the timing issue. Track your stun damage taken since you were stunned, or since your most recent previous phase. If you took none, you recover from being stunned (no change). If not, and no single attack stunned you again., perhaps you get a CON roll, or an EGO roll, modified for the STUN damage taken, to recover. So, if our Boxer is stunned, then takes a hit for 1 STUN, perhaps he needs to make an EGO roll to recover from being stunned. Apply a -1 per extra STUN taken, or -1 per 2 or 3 STUN taken, and harder hits make it tougher to recover. More rolling and more tracking, of course.

50 strikes a round would be 10 per minute, or 2 per turn. Not exactly how most Hero combats flow, but not out of line if one is also blocking, dodging, etc. Tack on the possibility that higher skilled fighters may be using Multiple Attacks to land more than one blow as a single attack action, and Hero seems a bit too speedy to model this. Wobbled could be a variant on the Wounded rules - if you take more than x STUN, make an Ego roll to stay in the fight, or suffer some brief disadvantage. Or, it may simply be SFX of someone getting hit. That "cover up and backpedal" is an issue that comes back to "maybe Stunned should not mean lose an action". Moving to full defense is still taking an action. This is also how the boxer "recovers from being stunned" with his gloves up to ward off further hits while he catches his breath. I like your interpretation of rocked - it's too easy to forget those small negatives are not unconscious, but deeply stunned and may leave the target still standing. This assumes we have criticals that max out on damage. Of course, if that's a head or vitals hit, then the same average damage levels apply, for the same results.A great damage roll coupled with a good hit location is even worse. How well does Hero simulate this? Who can take 50 average hits that do 7d6? Low end of damage is still passing 15 or so STUN through defenses for each hit. Normal human REC and STUN are not going to hold up nearly that long. Of course, games have to factor in playability. If equal opponents need to land several dozen hits to end a fight, the game will drag out a lot.

But it's not just "one bad hit". It's "one bad hit followed by a series of further hits". Now, I may be less sensitive to the issue because, practically, the defeats I see don't come because a series of tiny hits keeps the character Stunned, but because the opponents take advantage of that half DCV opponent to take him right out of the fight. I also don't see a lot of Stun results on credible combatants. Does that guy get ruined by a savage blow followed with a flurry of further blows? I'll admit I don't find Hero simulates sports in real life very well. Design two boxers as normal humans in Hero terms. Will a typical fight last for 3 minutes - a single boxing round? I think in "real life", DCV tends to be higher than OCV and far less than 2/3 of attacks hit home. You tell me - in a typical MMA bout, will each opponent hit the other about 10 times a minute (3 SPD x 5 turns x about 62.5% chance to hit), or are the fights a lot more defensive? In Hero terms, those defensive fights probably mean lower DC attacks with higher OCV and/or DCV bonuses, reducing the possibility of a stunning blow. Again, I question whether the issue is Stunning rules or SPD chart. Somehow, combat does have to be divided into discrete periods of time. Maybe the first example is the problematic one, and further hits after being stunned should draw out the period over which you are stunned. Maybe we should follow Chris' logic, and give every combatant the "benefit of the doubt" so the attacker knows to wait until the start of segment 6 to hit you, or gets to see you are just about to recover from being stunned, so now is the time to use your delayed action and hit again. The biggest issue, however, is your first comment - what do we want "being stunned" to mean? Pre-6e, it was 0 DCV, but now it is half DCV. Which one should it be? The rule for taking damage is similar, and plenty of other options could be imagined. Maybe any STUN from the moment you are Stunned to your next action means you can't use that action to recover from being stunned. The current rule uses only the segment of that phase. We could better parallel REC if you recover from being stunned on the same basis you would get a recovery if you used your action for that purpose. Maybe it's not 1 STUN in the appropriate timeframe, but some de minimis (whether fixed or variable, like "4 STUN" or "REC or greater" STUN). Should taking BOD prevent recovering from being stunned? If so, should it only be 1 BOD? Lots of options exist, but only one can be the "default rule". Perhaps a stunned character should have their actions restricted, but not denied entirely (the boxer can't strike back, but can bring up his gloves and ward off further strikes, perhaps buying time to fully recover from being stunned). Lots of options exist. To set this in context, how often in a typical combat, in your own games, do you see a Stunning blow land? How often is that defeat anyway because the target gets KOd while he is reeling?

I don't agree that your model simulates the comics. Cap has great tactical skill. How about that rookie Super on the same Avengers squad? Everyone has exactly the same tactical skill as Cap? That seems very far from the comics I have read. I don't find this "gives the players the benefit of the doubt". Being perceptive enough to react and have a shot to disrupt the one opponent on the field who is about to attack with your held action gives the benefit of the doubt. "OK, that was his action on Phase 5, DEX 18. Anyone want to use their held action? No? OK, next move is Segment 6 - anyone move earlier than 27 DEX?" If the answer is no, it is DEX 27 on segment 6. If it is yes, it is their DEX on Segment 6. The players all had the benefit of choosing whether to use their held actions or wait and see what happens next. This is no different from "OK, that was his action on Phase 8, DEX 35. Anyone want to use their held action? No? OK, anyone move before 27 DEX? No? OK, Lazer levels his rifle, aiming at Captain Paragon". "Oh, wait, I want to use my Held Action at DEX 28 to Grab Lazer's rifle." No. It is now DEX 27, he is taking aim, so if you want to beat him to the punch, you make an opposing DEX roll. You had the option of acting earlier, and chose not to take it,. You could have spoken up right after DEX 35, or right before DEX 27. You chose not to, at each point in time. Time moved on. Now it is DEX 27 (or Segment 6).

Continuously being pounded when you are on the ropes is not disadvantageous? Going twice in a row is pretty advantageous regardless. Do you find players often hold their phase for that benefit, or do they tend to take their actions as soon as their turn comes up? What prevents their opponent also holding his phase, so that they just stand there, bobbing and weaving, waiting for an opening? Other than a build to say "oh, look how dumb this rule is", why would anyone build, or permit, a construct like this? What does this power simulate in-game, from an SFX perspective? What is the defense, and why does it prevent this jab from landing with any impact when, otherwise, it could punch through full plate mail, or even 30 rPD of armor, to inflict a bee sting on the person inside? From a purely mechanical perspective, why not just buy +4 OCV with the attack that inflicted the critical hit in the first place, so it can hit and do real damage more often? I find it far more incomprehensible that anyone would bother with such a construct, but maybe every two or three hits stuns an opponent in your games. That has not been my experience. Even then, I'd rather invest the points to improve the chance I will hit, enhance the damage I will do, or enhance my own defenses to avoid a retaliatory strike, increasing the number of stunning blows I will land and/or reducing the number that will hit me. Even with that stinging jab and the critical taken for granted, if we are actually in a boxing match, great - you run out the round, we retire to our corners and both come out to start the fight as if that round had never even happened. Maybe you delay again, so I punch first, get a critical and you are now stunned. I won't be wasting my next phase trying to do exactly 1 stun - I'll be trying to turn that Stun into a KO and actually win the match. In combat I actually see in games, Jab Man would get pounded into the ground by other members of the PC group, even assuming he got lucky enough to get that first stunning blow in, and was fast enough to get a jab in right afterwards.

Where you say "they are bad", I say "neither can read the phase timer". Cap already has a high SPD and DEX, which he can use to delay his actions, waiting for the right moment to strike (for example, after an opponent moves, leaving himself open for a counterattack). When the opponent moves, Cap has the choice to take his delayed action or continue delaying. If he continues to delay, he maintains a Held Action until someone else does something (that is the nature of a held action). If he chooses to delay after activity in Segment 5, and we then move into Segment 6, it's now Segment 6. He can't "undelay" his action and ret-con what he did last phase, any more than, when his opponent aims at the Mayor, he can retroactively have attacked that opponent before he took aim. All he can do is use his delayed action now, likely requiring a DEX roll-off. Now, who is more likely to win that DEX roll-off, Cap or Jameson? That makes Cap better than Jameson at this kind of tactical/strategic combat. Maybe Cap's player wants to be even better, so we discuss whether he can buy up his DEX roll for this one specific purpose - that is, invest his in-game CP resource to focus on that skill, rather than more damage with his Martial Arts or more defenses with his Shield. Which is more fun to play and simulates superheroes better, special abilities unique to those superheroes,. or superheroes possessing the amazing ability to do what everyone else can do?