using Presence attacks for persuasion and convincing

[dugfromthearth]

I have written up rules for using PRE attacks outside of the normal combat use for perusasion and convincing. The goal is to simply expand upon the existing rules, although I have made a few changes.

 

Interaction skills are based on INT instead of PRE, as using a PRE roll to increase PRE seems like a bad idea. I also changed it so instead of a successful skill roll adding 1d6 to the PRE attack, it functions as a complementary skill for the total of the presence attack - giving the skill effect more granularity.

 

But the basic idea is using the mind control chart for the effects of out of combat PRE attacks to persuade. The GM is of course expected to limit the effects to real persuasion instead of mind control.

 

This is probably oriented more towards heroic campaigns, so that the bard can actually persuade the king to do something for the party, or the pretty investigator can get the clerk to let her see the police report.

 

I know that skills theoretically do this now. The problem is cost and effect. If you let someone buy the 3 point skill persuasion and convince the king to make you all nobles, give you millions of gold coins, and his daughter's hand in marriage, then that is the best spent 3 points in the game. On the other hand if you don't let someone with the 3 point skill persuasion convince the king of that, then there is no mechanic for it.

 

As I noted Presence Attack already includes notes that it lets you do this, it just doesn't go into much detail. I have. And since I was so long winded here I have had to attach the rules in a text file. I will put it on a web page soon as well.

[Ghostkat]

Re: using Presence attacks for persuasion and convincing

 

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

Interaction skills are based on INT instead of PRE, as using a PRE roll to increase PRE seems like a bad idea. I also changed it so instead of a successful skill roll adding 1d6 to the PRE attack, it functions as a complementary skill for the total of the presence attack - giving the skill effect more granularity.

 

Ok, I took a quick look through the presence stuff and it's interesting. A few good ideas it looks like, but I'm a bit baffled by this bit here. Why do you think INT is a better stat to base Interaction skills on instead of presence? You mention not wanting the skill to stack with a PRE effect (I think that's what you meant), but that still doesn't explain how being smarter makes you better at relating to people. That would make most geeks better socialites by default than most valley girls..

 

It's just one nit I'm picking, but I couldn't help it. I don't see much of a problem with using PRE based skill rolls as complimentary to PRE attacks, since the mechanic is a bit different for each. And it also looks like anyone making a PRE attack would want all the help they could get.

 

-Gk

[dugfromthearth]

okay, INT does help you perform skills such as persuasion and trading better. They are skills, not your raw ability to relate to people. Your raw ability to relate to people is your presence.

 

Think of ego, presence, and intelligence like con, strength, and dexterity. Strength lets you hit harder, dex lets you hit more accurately. Presence gives you the raw impressiveness but Intelligence lets you refine it with skills.

 

mechanically, basing those skills on presense gives you double benefit for increasing your presence. Raise your presence by 5 and get +1d6 and +1 to the skills which gives you more presence.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

okay, INT does help you perform skills such as persuasion and trading better. They are skills, not your raw ability to relate to people. Your raw ability to relate to people is your presence.

 

Think of ego, presence, and intelligence like con, strength, and dexterity. Strength lets you hit harder, dex lets you hit more accurately. Presence gives you the raw impressiveness but Intelligence lets you refine it with skills.

 

mechanically, basing those skills on presense gives you double benefit for increasing your presence. Raise your presence by 5 and get +1d6 and +1 to the skills which gives you more presence.

 

I've never heard of someone making a a persuasion or trading roll to aid their PRE Attack. I have to dissagree about using INT to base Interaction skill on. If you wnat INT to play a larger roll, use several INT based complementary skills for Interaction Skills.

 

PRE already does take the place of skilled Persuasion and such in the form of a really large PRE Attack. If the roll is high enough, the target will do whatever you say. I would occasionally allow a successful Interaction Skill to add a d6 to the PRE Attack, but because this is redundant I allow it rarely, and only if it's absolutely appropriate (like a politician using Oratory to PRE Attack with a speach).

[dugfromthearth]

"PRE already does take the place of skilled Persuasion and such in the form of a really large PRE Attack. If the roll is high enough, the target will do whatever you say. "

 

Right, my rules just clarify that a bit more. The basic rule is already there.

 

 

"I would occasionally allow a successful Interaction Skill to add a d6 to the PRE Attack, but because this is redundant I allow it rarely"

 

The pre attack modifier chart lists interaction skills as giving a +1d6 if successful and +2d6 if made by half.

 

"but because this is redundant I allow it rarely, and only if it's absolutely appropriate"

 

I agree it is redundant. Which is why I changed them to INT based.

[prestidigitator]

I think Interaction Skills are perfect as Pre-based rolls. I regard the difference between Interaction rolls and Presence Attacks much like I view the difference between Intellect rolls and Per rolls. One can help with the other (if you notice the rune on the base of the pot, you might better recognize its origin--or, if you know who manufactures such chests, you might know where to look for the secret compartment), but they really have different effects.

 

I think Presence Attacks might help with some Interaction rolls a bit (and vice versa), but I usually give them different results. You might make or fail your Seduction roll, but if you make an awesome Presence Attack they will remember you for some time as an impressive individual either way. If you stand in front of the crowd and awe them with your bearing, they might not mob you even if you do completely screw up your Oratory. If you dominate someone with your overwhelming personality, they might follow you to the ends of the earth--but if you screw up in other ways it might be to kill you rather than be your loyal follower.

 

Even if you are using your Presence Attack in combat it can have different results: your opponent might just be surprised and left off balance, or (s)he might be so intimidated (s)he will not lift a hand against you, or (s)he might be so filled with hatred and loathing for you that (s)he is rendered momentarily immobile with anger.