Andrew Cermak

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever He's pulled off that kind of feat more than once. He does it here in Amazing Spider-Man #365. That's Penn Station that fell on him, btw. Only the Hulk has a better Push than Spidey.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Nothing like shifting your argument when your points are dismantled. Firelord was a friend to Hercules and Thor at the time this issue was published, and you want to claim that he would be willing to mass murder innocents to get at Spidey? He also said he wanted Thor dead in that scan I showed from Thor 306. Always follows through on his threats, does he? I'm not sure why I'm bothering anymore. You're being so disingenous that I'm convinced you *know* it, and are now simply trolling. Pretending that a boastful threat and an exclamation of surprise must be treated as having equal sincerity is just stupid. It's like saying "I should kill you for that!" and "Ow, my foot!" must be treated as equivalent statements.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever And that's the very definition of a false dichotomy. Pretending alternatives don't exist.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Reading comprehension isn't a strength of yours, is it? No wonder there's so much disagreement here. I didn't answer your loaded question, I denied the false dichotomy you constructed. He can *both* react to his Spider-Sense *and* not consciously realize when Firelord was down. Which is exactly what the page demonstrates happening.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The quote "You dare!?" from Firelord shows that he couldn't quite credit what he was seeing. It's all on the page. This isn't an argument I've been pursuing, but if I were, I'd theorize that Firelord largely shut off his Power Cosmic when he was playing possum, to make it more convincing.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Why do you keep tying "berserk" to "ignoring his Spider-Sense?" You haven't demonstrated that the two go hand in hand. You ever react to something without thinking? Spidey does that with his Spider-Sense. It's even gotten him into trouble before. If it tingles, he usually reacts to it instinctively. So the fact that it stopped sending him signals and he kept hitting Firelord doesn't show he was blind to his Spider-Sense. It shows he was still acting instinctively, and his angry, frustrated instincts were telling him to hit the powerhouse who had been trying to kill him.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Golden Oldie.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Irrelevant? Sounds like you're being intentionally evasive. You know exactly how this is relevant, you're just choosing not to answer because you'll be forced to concede an argument against your side's position. Right, Spidey isn't using his Spider-Sense even though the caption specifically says he is. You guys are dodging more than Spidey was, but not nearly as gracefully.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Yeah, I'm thinking that Chuckg's torpedoed his own argument well enough that I can step AFK and get some stuff done.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever What he said. Um, I mean, what I said.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever That's his MO. He tries to distract people from it by accusing them of dishonesty at the drop of a hat, but it's just a mask for his own omissions.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Will you listen to yourself? Comics dwell in the imagination. We see blobs of colored ink and our imagination turns them into pictures. We see a sequence of standstill pictures and our imagination turns them into moving stories. The only one pretending imagination has nothing to do with reading a comic book is you, and with that mistaken impression it's no wonder you fail to understand that panel and what it represents.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The whole *point* of the pro-Spidey vs Firelord position is that Spidey can hit hard enough to hurt Firelord, so he just needs to hit him a lot to eventually bring him down. That's what we've been saying this entire thread. To demonstrate it, we've shown him hurting Thor 2 and Rhino and Titania. We've shown that Firelord hasn't proven any better at taking a punch than any of these characters. Spidey can hurt Firelord if he hits him hard enough. Despite your protestations, that panel shows Spidey hitting Firelord a *lot*. Eventually, Firelord goes down. All Spidey needed was the confidence to make a stand...or be left with nowhere left to run. It's fairly simple.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The quantity is "enough." That's what the panel represents. Spidey hits Firelord and hits him again and keeps hitting him until the Avengers pull him off. We don't need a counter for that.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Mad, disbelieving, refusing to allow this gnat to defeat him until it's already happened. A host of reasons are possible.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever You're really falling apart on this point. Those pages are meant to show Spidey's last stand. He's had enough, he's frustrated and angry, and now it's time to stop running and go down fighting. That's what the artist draws, because that's what's important. How many times Spidey punched Firelord isn't important. How many times Firelord swiped at Spidey isn't important. We don't need to know those things, they don't help the scene become more effective. The panels show us how Spidey won, we don't need a diagram. Comic books are art, and you continue to forget that.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Actually, I did explain that, but you're ignoring it. Firelord was fighting back. That's why Spidey was bouncing around like a maniac as he hit Firelord. The artist didn't draw Firelord's swings because it would ruing the pacing. Reference Spidey blitzing Thor 2 earlier for a comparable scene, where Thor explictly states he's fighting back but it isn't drawn.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The middle panel represents an indeterminate number of punches. It's a blitz. You can count the *drawn* punches, but you cannot count how many punches that blitz actually represents. That panel tells us what Spidey was doing: jumping around, dodging and punching Firelord over and over again. It is not meant to tell us how many times Spidey hit Firelord. (But it does suggest that Firelord might be fighting back, or Spidey wouldn't be jumping around like that) You are being excessively literal.