Kristopher

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

No need to go looking any further; you HAVE the answer. You have' date=' however, rejected it for reasons which seem to derive from a desire to have some sort of single concrete answer to "what's REALLY happening", despite the fact that we've known there isn't one for over a hundred years now.[/quote']

 

At least I don't believe in telepathy.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

**shrug**

Guess I'll have to keep looking.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Well' date=' if you are convinced of the truth of what Einstein's relativity says is false, there is no way you will ever be reconciled with relativity. Which more or less means you are wasting your time in this thread.[/quote']

 

I'm not convinced it's false.

 

I'm trying to reconcile objective reality with the experimentally demonstrated effects of relativity.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

I'm not enjoying this at all.

Re: Math

I was just going to say, "FUD -- Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt"?

Re: 10 Sci-Fi Weapons That Actually Exist

The anti-citizen applications are creepy for many of those.

Re: Nova?

They wish. Nope, the satellites are not made of iridium.

 

Originally there were going to be 77 satellites. This is the same as the atomic number (and number of electrons) of the element Iridium so they gave the satellites the same name.

Then the corporation found out they could get by with only 66 satellites. "Dysprosium" did not have the same dramatic sound, so they kept the name "Iridium".

I didn't think so, but it would have explained what the company wasted all their money on, leading to their failure.

Re: Nova?

Are the Iridium sats made of iridium?

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

As far as I can tell, you want to know whether the light hits the front and the back of the train at the same time (starting from the middle of the train car).

 

The only objective answer is: the only thing we can say is objectively true is that light ALWAYS moves at lightspeed. The sequence of events an observer will witness depends on his frame of reference.

 

If he's in the same frame of reference as the train car, it will appear to hit both front and rear of the car at the same time. If he's in a different frame of reference, moving at some signficant fraction of C relative to the train, he will see something else. But he will still see light moving at lightspeed in all possible scenarios.

What I've been trying to dig down to, and asking the wrong question in some posts, is whether the train car is moving or stationary with regard to the motion of the photons from the flash.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Yes' date=' it has, but your unreasoning attachment to outmoded models of spacetime is causing you to reject it.[/quote']

 

So now you're a telepath too, an actual mind reader? No, really, you're able to tell, sitting there about 2300 miles away, what I'm thinking at this moment? That's absolutely amazing. What other amazing powers do you have?

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Are you sure?

We have given you the answer, again and again.

 

It seems more likely to me that what you want is an answer to a very basic, simple question that you will accept.

The answer given hasn't really been an answer to the actual question.

Re: "Tightening the Curve" on damage

Not been mentioned that I can see so far. You could mix up some average dice (as used by tabletop wargamers) with the normal dice used. If some or all of the dice used produce 2,3,3,4,4,5 then you will get less variation in your BODY damage.

 

This is a reasonable option as you can buy those dice straight out of any decent gaming shop (that still caters to wargamers).

I'll take a look at my local shops.

Re: Carl Sagan's Apple Pie Recipe

The Science Channel occasionally shows episodes Cosmos. I'm pretty sure I caught at least one instance of Sagan using something very close to that phrase.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

No, nothing is more clear.

You know what, never mind.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

I'm using "catching up" as shorthand to avoid some other terminology confusion, but that seems inevitable at this point.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Not sure what other people want.

What I want is an answer to a very basic, simple question.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Easy. You turn on your headlights or taillights' date=' and the light recedes from you at c. Speed up to 99% of the speed of light, and the photons will still be streaming out of your bulbs at 3E8 m/s, relative to you. From both ends. As explained in those videos.[/quote']

 

I watched the video you posted, all it talks about is the diagram.

 

And really, that's not the effect the train car example seems to be talking about. The train car is moving, the oddness comes in when it talks about the observer on the train seeing the train car not catching up to the light, and the observer on the platform seeing the train car catching up to the light.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

I'm not looking to debunk Einstein.

I want to know whether the train car is "catching up to" the light, or not.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

So you do agree that the two events in the train do not have some concrete order.

When did I say that?

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

You agree that they work, yet you deny that the effects which they have to account for are real.

 

Premise one: The Global Positioning System works as designed.

Premise two: The Global Positioning System is designed to accommodate relativistic effects, including relative simultaneity.

 

That you can accept these two premises, yet deny the conclusion that relative simultaneity is real indicates to me either a severe failure of reasoning ability, or an irrational attachment to outdated Newtonian models.

 

Your belief that the light reaching the front of the train and the light reaching the back of the train must occur in a single clearly defined sequence is not in accord with Relativity theory, nor with experimental evidence. In short, said belief does not match reality.

 

At this point, I find myself wondering whether you reject the conclusion because you perceive (due to incomplete understanding) a flaw in the arguments presented, or because you simply don't LIKE the conclusion.

 

If it's the former, please help us to understand what you're missing.

 

If it's the latter . . . further discussion is pointless.

Is the train car catching up with the light, or not?

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

I've never said that GPS sats don't work, nor do I believe any such thing.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

It's a textbook example. There are two photons. One travels at c and strikes one end the train car. The other travels at c and strikes the other end of the train car. These two events happen in every frame of reference.

 

The bone of contention is the idea that these two events have some concrete order. That's an illusion.

The bone of contention is that the example claims that the train car is moving relative to the light, and is not moving relative to the light, at the same damn time.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

Kristopher, you are pounding your head against a brick wall here. This is an RPG forum, not a classroom.

 

FIND A PHYSICS PROFESSOR AND ASK THEM.

It's not as if they'll provide something that's not provided here or in the sources I've looked up online.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

The photon only does one thing - travel at the speed of light and strike one end of the train. That's all it ever does. It does that in every frame of reference.

Then the train car example we've been discussing is a terrible and inaccurate example.

Re: Instantaneous Communications plus Time Dilation Equals ???

But according to the oft-mentioned example that kicked this all off, there's still the issue of the same damn photon doing different things depending on where you're watching it from, a crazy-quilt / house-of-mirrors effect.