Dragonblade

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

Hey everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the great feedback. You are really forcing me to defend or abandon my positions. And thats awesome! Its really helping me prepare for the campaign by giving me a lot to think about.

Keep it coming! I'd also like to ask if anyone has their own house rules that they have come up that they would like to share?

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

A question: do you allow Characteristics bought as Powers (and as Multipower/VPP slots) to break the NCM cap ? I'd strongly suggest yes, since this would allow the best of both worlds: deal with your concerns, and still allow for character concepts calling for superhuman chars, like bricks and speedsters, to have them at suitably impressive levels.

 

As a matter of fact, I do quite prefer superhuman Characteristics to be bought as Powers anyway: it highlights the difference between the mundane and superhuman self, it smooths things if char has a form-switching SFX, and it puts things like brick STR back where they belong, in the Power list.

Good question. Yes, I probably would allow higher characteristics to be bought as a power as long as the player was doing it as part of their concept, and not just trying to get around the spirit of the NCM rule.

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

For clarification, the way I read this is that HERO points are different from XP, and that while XP's can buy HERO points (which I personally wouldn't do) that HERO points don't transfer into XP. Is this correct?

 

Also, if a PC doesn't spend the HERO points, do they go away, or do they roll-over like the purchased ones do? (I personally would say "use them or lose them," but that's me )

You are correct. You cannot sell back HERO points for CPs. HERO points are a drama tool. You start every session with a minimum of 2 for every game. If you start a session with 1 or 0 HERO points, you automatically get 1 or 2, so that you have at least 2. If you start a session with more than 2, you get none.

You can spend character points to buy up to 3 more. Maximum you can have is 5. You keep these extra HERO points until you use them.

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

I just want to second what Keneton said, but in a slightly different way. In the current 3d6 system there's a *huge* difference between 8-, 11-, and 14-. Going to a d20-based system changes the mechanics of skills and combat quite a lot. For reference, here are the odds with 3d6 vs. d20 (actually the way you have it written the odds are slightly different, but the interesting thing is the difference in percentage chance of success at each level with each system):

 

8- on 3d6: ~26%

11- on 3d6: 62.5% (~35% more likely than 8-)

14- on 3d6: ~91% (~29% more likely than 11-)

 

8- on d20: 40%

11- on d20: 55% (15% more likely than 8-)

14- on d20: 70% (15% more likely than 11-)

 

Incremental steps in the 3d6 system are non-linear, meaning that going from 8- to 9- (a difference of 11.57%) is not the same percentage success change as from 9- to 10- (a difference of 12.5%), which are both considerably greater than the percentage success change from 15- to 16- (2.78% change). Okay, that's all fine and dandy, but what does it *really* mean?

 

1. As Keneton says, dodge is no longer nearly as useful a defense option. Say you get +4 DCV from dodge (because that's a convenient number). With a d20, this means you get hit 20% less often. Unless you're way at the outer ends of the to-hit, a +4 DCV generally means considerably more than a 20% frequency shift away from being hit on 3d6.

 

2. 5% (a 20 on a d20) is a *lot* of critical hits, especially if they automatically do max damage. That's actually marginally more frequent than making 3, 4, and 5 all critical hits on 3d6.

 

There are a lot of ways to encourage more cinematic play, if you root through some of the Luck optional rules and house rule threads around here. Changing to a d20 system has really amazing effects on game balance and odds of success failure, which aren't really readily apparent unless you've done some statistical analysis of the change first (other of which won't be apparent until you've playtested it fairly extensively, I suspect). While this will ease people from a d20 system in to HERO, it also changes the flavor and playing experience a lot.

Wow, excellent analysis! However, I'm well aware of the probability difference between the 3d6 bell curve and the linear d20. Believe it or not, I actually do want more critical hits. I want quicker and more dramatic combats, and I think this can achieve that. However, I think I will revisit the idea of max damage on a natural 20. As someone pointed out, it can be quite powerful. Perhaps more than I like.

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

Why make your to hit rolls linear. Its a step backwards mechanically. Better to have the Hero bell curve than a d20 to hit system. Youve made dodge a lottery instead of a defense.

 

NCM already commented on. A liitle harsh for bricks and high chracteristics pc.s

 

Recovery as zero phase action makes no sense at all. Character will always take a recovery every phase! |And also every chracter would go to 0 dcv for one instant each phase. This would cause evryone to hold waiting for each charecter to recover than blast at that instant.

Thanks for the feedback! Well, I disagree about it being a step backward. Bell curves are useful when you want to achieve probabilities clustered around a particular set of numbers. Thats fine and dandy, but I actually prefer the flat probability of the d20. I want more hits and more high rolls. I like throwing in a little randomness. It shakes things up a bit, makes the roll more exciting. Makes combat run a little faster and its a little more unpredictable. I come from a D&D background, so I'm used to that linear probability of d20. I have also played HERO before, just not in many years. I remember some combats just taking forever. +5 DCV for Martial Dodge is incredibly powerful in a Bell curve system. Some people like that. I don't. Now, in practice, it may not end up working for me. But I figured I would try it and see how it plays out.

I don't want characters with high characteristics across the board. I prefer them be a little more focused in what characteristics they increase to superhuman levels and NCM helps me achieve that by discouraging players from raising characteristics that don't fit their concept.

You can only recover as a zero-phase action with a HERO point. I like this because it adds a sense of cinematic drama to combat. Makes it more like a comic book.

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

Why? Do you really care if a player decides that they can work with less than 350 points? (Personally' date=' I frequently work with fewer disads than is expected for teh point level of game, just because I'm willing to have a character built on a few less point for the freedom of fewer disads).[/quote']

 

I'm of the philosophy that role-playing disadvantages should never be used to offset mechanical gain. In past experience, most players took disadvantages that weren't really disadvantages, like Code Against Cold-Blooded Murder. I mean what hero doesn't automatically do that anyway?

 

Yes, yes, I know that a disadvantage that is not really a disadvantage is not worth any points. BUT, I would have to babysit character-gen to stop these abuses from happening. I hate that. I'd rather just set up some guidelines that anticipate a certain degree of min-maxing and let the players go to town.

 

So, although my campaign is set up to require 100 points of disadvantages, I'm not really using them as a balancing factor.

 

I'm using them more to force the players to focus their character concept, like giving me Hunteds or Psych Limitations that tell me about their character. Those players that do actually take disadvantages that disadvantage them, may get rewards like a bonus CP or two when they come into play.

 

Yes, I'm a cynical GM.

Re: Review my campaign guidelines

Wow! Awesome feedback everyone. Thanks!

So, I'm not planning on giving extra points for NCM, but I'm also only requiring them to take 100 points of Disadvantages instead of 150. So, I guess you could say the points for it are sort of built in already.

My reasoning behind it is simple, I wanted to try to not have a huge disparity between bricks, or speedsters, and skill based characters. I have one player wanting to build a superman-esque flying brick, and another wanting to go for a stealthy ninja type with illusionary magic, and another going for a speedster with a "speed-related powers" power pool.

I also didn't want characters to start with really high DEX, STR, or SPD. But I also didn't want to simply impose a characeristic cap. In my previous experience playing Champions years and years ago, the GM didn't use NCM and simply gave a cap on things like STR, PD, ED, etc. Well, every single player bought all their STR, PD, and ED up to the cap. There was nothing that really set the Bricks apart from the other characters.

I also didn't want players buying characteristics to superhuman levels without it fitting their characters. I have noticed that a lot of players tend to buy up the cheap attributes like STR, or INT, just because they are cheap. So every hero is running around as a super genius or with super strength just because the points are cheap. Granted, I could just enforce character concept a little more during character creation, but I don't want to babysit them that much. With NCM, that high INT better really fit their character concept or its just not worth the extra points.

The crits doing max damage is something to think about. But I wanted a more cinematic flair in the game. A feeling of excitement when a natural 20 is rolled that means more than just an automatic hit. But, it may be too powerful. Perhaps bonus DCs might be a better way to go.

The HERO point idea, I have borrowed from all the RPGs out there that have a similar mechanic. I like the idea, that when the chips are down and all seems lost, the dramatic conclusion of a story is not completely predicated on random die rolls. Major villains can use HERO points as well. But you all raise some good points, so I'll think about that.

One other thing I should mention is that I intend to be pretty liberal with characters using equipment they acquire. I also will probably be pretty liberal with PCs using their powers in unexpected ways without requiring them to pay points for it. For example, I'll be pretty lax about a brick using the occasional brick trick without paying points for it.

Basically, behind the scenes I'm effectively giving each character a secret power pool to allow for all their creative power usage and equipment acquisition.

One of my opinions on gaming is that after character creation, a good rules system should simply fade into the background. IMO, HERO does a good job at this except when it comes to players wanting to pick up and keep the villain's gun, or wanting their brick PC to be able to just pound the pavement and create a shockwave on the fly. Granted its important for balance and for enforcing genre conventions, however, making characters pay points for this stuff seems so jarring to me. It shatters the suspension of disbelief and throws the game system right back in your face. Just my thoughts anyway.

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time HERO fan and semi-lurker. I'm starting up a new Champions campaign soon with some friends of mine. I whipped up some basic campaign guidelines and house rules and would appreciate everyone's feedback.

I should note, that in some instances we will be using d20 for certain rolls such as combat. Most of my players are d20 diehards so I'm trying to ease them into HERO gradually. Also, I personally prefer the flat probability curve of the d20 over rolling 3d6. I feel it makes combat a little faster and increases drama since high rolls and crits are more common without the Bell curve.

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Character Creation Guidelines:

•Characters may spend 350 points to build their characters.

•No characteristic or power may have more than 75 Active points.

•Characters must buy 100 points worth of Disadvantages for their character.

•The Normal Characteristic Maxima rule is used. Buying characteristics beyond the human maximum costs double the character points.

•Powers, Advantages, or other abilities with STOP signs are not allowed without GM permission.

•Standard modern equipment that comes into a characters possession is “freeâ€, meaning they may keep it without having to buy it with character points. Special, or super-science items may cost points if used long term. However, combat penalties may apply if you don’t know how to use the item.

•Players may choose to use the Standard Effect rule before any roll instead of actually rolling.

•This game uses only d20s and d6s. Be sure to have a lot of extra d6s on hand.

Specific rules changes:

Skills: Roll d20 + skill (usually 9 + Attribute/5). A roll of 20 or better is usually a success. A roll of 1 is an automatic failure. A natural 20 is an automatic success. Modifiers to this number may apply depending on the difficulty of the task involved.

Combat: Attacker rolls d20+OCV vs. a Defense score equal to 10+DCV. A natural 1 always misses and a natural 20 always hits. A natural 20 is also considered a critical and does maximum damage.

HERO points: Characters start every session/adventure with 2 HERO points. Spending HERO points takes no time unless otherwise stated. HERO points may be spent in the following ways:

•Natural 20 - Automatically get a natural 20 on any one skill or attack roll.

•Instant Recovery - Take a Recovery as a Zero-phase action.

•Automatic Stabilize - If at negative BODY, you can stabilize at 0 BODY.

•Act out of Turn - Act on the next segment as if you normally had a Phase on that segment.

•Special - The player or GM may think of other ways to spend a character’s HERO points in creative ways during the game.

Additional HERO points may be purchased between adventures for 5 character points each. These additional HERO points remain until used. A character can have only up to 5 HERO points at any one time.

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

You are kidding, right? Not useful?

The USPD makes it possible for me to run HERO system games on the fly! Something, I could never do well before that book came out.

I'm way too much of an perfectionist to just make up powers off my head. My villains have to have fully constructed powers made properly. And with this book, I can create a villain on the fly, with his powers, and everything runs smoothly.

My games were a lot more rigid before I got that book. Thank you, Steve!

I can't recommend the book enough. Even as a character idea generator, the book is simply phenomenal! If you are new to HERO, I highly recommend that book along with Sidekick.

Just an update, we working on world creation at the moment so haven't gotten to work on mechanics at all.

Basically, I think we will go with a d20+OCV vs. a 10+DCV rule. Very similar to D&D. Even though the d20 is more of a flat 5% variable and not a bell curve like rolling 3d6, I found that the essential difference between the two rolling methods is that 3d6 tends to give more and more of an advantage to whoever has the higher CV.

If you have two combatants, and the OCV of one is less than the DCV of his opponent, then under the 3d6 method, that person is less likely to be hit than if those combatants used my d20 method. Likewise, if the attacker's OCV is greater than the DCV, then the attacker is more likely to hit then if the d20 method is used.

Basically, 3d6 magnifies the advantage of whoever has the higher CV. Under my d20 method, the advantage is more muted, leading to a more balanced combat system IMHO. Characters with higher CV's then their opponents will dominate those opponents that much more using the 3d6 method. d20 favors the underdog in comparison.

As far as SPD goes, we will test a round-robin combat method. Everyone will act in order of DEX, although we are thinking of coming up with an initiative system to shake things up a bit. If we don't like the way it plays we may go back to the SPD chart.

As far as rolling damage goes, thats the hard one. You can't really change much here without significantly affecting the game. For now I think we will just have to play as is and see how it goes.

We are not playing a superheroic game so hopefully rolling a bucket of dice will not be an issue.

Thanks for all the responses! I'm in the midst of planning a new HERO system based fantasy martial arts campaign using Ninja HERO and Fantasy HERO.

We are going to playtest some of our rules and also use base HERO rules and see which we like.

I don't have time to post a response to each one of you right now but I'll get back on the boards tomorrow and respond.

I'm new to the boards and a big HERO fan for years. I played 4th Edition HERO and Champions several times but the slowness and complexity of character creation and combat turned off most of my gaming group.

We went to d20 and D&D. I am a D&D veteran and love the game but I think HERO offers a certain flexibility and customizability that d20 simply doesn't. So in order to convince my group to go back HERO I have to tweak the rules to improve speed of play. Character creation is not such a big deal once I give everyone mins/maxes on point spending for different characteristics, powers, disadvantages, etc. In fact, the genre books like Ninja HERO, Champions, Star HERO, Fantasy HERO etc. are great at suggesting point spending guidelines.

The real trick though is combat. Rolling 3d6+OCV-DCV seems simple enough, but its three dice that need to be added up instead of just one. We were thinking of going to an opposed roll system: Attacker rolls d20+OCV vs. a Defense roll of d20+DCV. OR a single roll system that models d20 style Armor Class: d20+OCV vs. an AC or Def of 10+DCV.

Please help me look at the pros and cons of my two suggested methods vs. the standard HERO attack roll. Rolling one die speeds combat up by several seconds with every roll. And over a large combat can make quite a difference in terms of real world game time spent fighting. Speed of play is paramount to my group.

Another suggestion we developed was to ditch the speed chart. Simply use SPD as the number of actions you have in a round. Characters take turns in a round robin fashion, until those with a lower speed drop out because they ran out of actions. Those familiar with Palladium and Rifts should recognize this style of combat right away. Although this method sacrifices some of HERO's tactical realism, running attacks in this fashion plays immensely faster than using the SPD chart.

Please discuss. Is this a good idea? Bad? What issues do you foresee?

Another suggestion is to change the way damage is rolled. Rolling a 10d6 and counting both STUN and BODY means not only do you have to count the pips on ten dice, but you have to count them twice! One trick is to have one person count BODY while another counts STUN. This helps somewhat. But rolling and counting up a lot of dice is a big time waster and suspense killer in a long drawn out combat. Its bad enough when the wizard in the D&D game does this for his fireball spell, but in HERO every character has a bucketful of dice to roll!!

We came up with counting STUN normally and then divide by 3 to determine BODY. This cuts out double counting and generally works well, but you still have to count up all the STUN dice. We also thought about rolling one die with a multiplier instead of rolling a lot of dice. For example, instead of rolling 10d6 for STUN, roll 1d6x10 for STUN. The problem with this system is obvious. More extremes and less likely to roll an average between 30-40. We would still rolling killing damage the same way.

Any thoughts on any or all of these methods of speeding up combat? Good? Bad?

What house rules or quickplay tactics do you guys use?