prestidigitator

Re: Obfuscation and Unbreakable Vows...

Skills (can) affect all senses' date=' true, but only if the GM thinks it makes sense - it gives an example of a normal human being unable to hide his own body scent. If I've got a 14- stealth skill and I'm hiding in a shadow, well concealed from normal sight, am I also concealed from someone who can see in the infrared spectrum? I probably stick out like a sore thumb as the ambient temperature in a shadow is lower. How do you extend a skill roll to extra senses? I've not got The Ultimate Skill - is there a mechanic for that?[/quote']

By taking advantage of your knowledge of those other senses (maybe some KSs for a Base would be appropriate, but that's going to depend on the GM). Smear something strong-smelling on yourself for scent. Cover yourself with something cool or insulative for infrared. It's not a matter of mechanics, but of covering the possibilities as in SFX.

 

Anyway' date=' it makes no real sense (da-dum) to me: stealth is NOT invisibility. It doesn't matter how high your stealth roll is, if you are standing in front of someone they see you. Now if you want to say that the buildings have been cleverly disguised to look like the surrounding countryside, fine - stealth works. How does that stop a thermal imaging satellite from picking up the inhabitants though? Presumably they don't wander around with thermal baffling umbrellas up all the time?[/quote']

And there is the other side of the coin. While Skills can potentially work against any senses and such, you actually have to use them in an appropriate fashion. Using Stealth means actually finding places to hide and move without making a noise and such. If you jump out in front of someone it's like volunteering to roll a critical failure on your skill roll (or inspiring the GM to give you a -10 anyway; maybe you can actually pick the moment someone's looking the other way and still stay unnoticed for a fraction of a second, but...). As far as the base goes it's a matter of planning. A thorough description of what senses the base is protected against and how is a great bit of flavor for a player or GM to come up with, and comparing the SFX to the situation in question will be a good way to decide whether the particular use of the skill works, doesn't work, or has some kind of bonus or penalty. And the great thing about it is that if a corner case is found that wasn't covered, precautions can then be taken for the next time (modifications to the base and a re-application of the skill) without having to change a bunch of pre-built powers around. In fact, it can be done with roleplaying and zero actual point re-allocation. And like I said, back it up with some kind of Invisibility or something if you want; they will complement each other well.

 

Of course this is all a matter for interpretation and agreement with the GM. As a GM I would be happy to let a skill - or superskill - work as specified: as a superskill you could have a roll so high it almost always succeeds - but you still need to rely on an optional rule - Extraordinary Skills - to 'do the impossible', like hiding in plain sight. In a world where Extraordinary Stealth exists, Extraordinary Perception will too.

 

Also do not forget that a skill requires you to roll when it is tested: every so often, if people are actively looking for you it will happen a lot - you will roll 18 on your skill roll, and suddenly, there's the school.

Yes. And so what? If you really, really want a COMPLETELY unfindable base, the Hero System isn't the best one to model such a thing. As is often pointed out here, it doesn't do absolutes very well. Absolutes are boring anyway. Why shouldn't there be some little hole in the defenses for an interesting story to uncover at some point? It's going to exist with Powers too (go ahead, try to cover every Unusual Sense with Invisibility, or prevent someone with EDM from discovering your pocket dimension, or cover the possibility that a robot with Mind Scan for the Machine Class tries to find your computerized wristwatch...). A failed skill roll will be an opportunity for some kind of fun storyline, not the end of the world.

Re: Electro Magnetic Pulse

Shouldn't NND be applied to the Killing Attack version?

How much ED is the target likely to have? Hold an electronic device over an open flame for a moment, and how likely is it to keep functioning? Seems like this kind of thing should be kept in mind when building such things. Additionally, a Breakable Focus has ED equal to 1/5 the Active Points in its largest power (and optionally is destroyed completely if it takes double that), so it's not like a RKA is going to have to be HUGE to affect it.

Re: When, Exactly, Is The Future?

You just missed it. Your future has passed.

Damn! Already?

Colonel Sandurz: Try here. Stop.

Dark Helmet: What the hell am I looking at? When does this happen in the movie?

Colonel Sandurz: Now. You're looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now, is happening now.

Dark Helmet: What happened to then?

Colonel Sandurz: We passed then.

Dark Helmet: When?

Colonel Sandurz: Just now. We're at now now.

Dark Helmet: Go back to then.

Colonel Sandurz: When?

Dark Helmet: Now.

Colonel Sandurz: Now?

Dark Helmet: Now.

Colonel Sandurz: I can't.

Dark Helmet: Why?

Colonel Sandurz: We missed it.

Dark Helmet: When?

Colonel Sandurz: Just now.

Dark Helmet: When will then be now?

Colonel Sandurz: Soon.

Re: OCV/DCV Am I doing the math right?

I'm not saying it isn't easier for you. I'm just saying that just because it is easier for you doesn't mean that it is easier for everyone. I don't see anything about the way you prefer things that is objectively easier.

 

As to support for claims, that's easy. I can support that it isn't objectively easier by the simple fact that it isn't easier for me. If it was objectively easier, it would be easier for everyone. Just being easier for one group of people doesn't mean it is easier for everyone.

Huh. Yeah. And if I were color-blind all your supposed "colors" would have no objective truth, either. We do have to use some reasonableness when we talk about what is, "objectively easier." Because some babies don''t crawl before they walk, can we say that crawling is not objectively easier than walking? No! (Ask a roboticist whether he'd rather make a quadrupedal crawler or a bipedal walker.)

There actually are some pretty objective reasons why 3d6+OCV>=10+DCV is easier. Our brains do perform addition and comparison a lot more naturally than subtraction, and since most of us have used a base 10 number system exclusively since the day we started talking, adding 10 is one of the quickest and easiest computations we can do.

If somehow you've trained yourself to overcome such natural and ingrained inclinations, great, but if we're talking about humans in general, or gamers who haven't somehow burned 3d6<=11+DCV-DCV into their brains for decades, there is going to be a natural bias toward the sort of adding and comparing that 3d6+OCV>=10+DCV gives.

Honestly I think there are other reasons people get so defensive about this kind of thing. Standpoints like, "What's wrong with it? It's the way I've always done it," and, "We have to keep something so fundamental as the attack roll different from certain other monolithic game systems to make Hero stand out." I don't find either very convincing.

So yeah, I'd prefer to see the default method of making an attack roll change for the Hero System, and I think making the change really does aid in bringing newcomers on board with as little strain as possible (that's why I've changed they way I do it myself). However, I'm certainly not trying to tell YOU, or anyone else in particular, to change the way you do things individually. We should always continue to approach such things in an open-minded fashion, with options and suggestions rather than mandates.

Re: Electro Magnetic Pulse

Yeah, I'd go either Dispel or an energy-based RKA with an Affects Electronic Devices Only Limitation (probably -2 in value). Ironically the RKA will probably be a lot more efficient/affordable since you'll have to buy the kind of Powers affected by the Dispel up as an Adjustment Power (all electronic-based powers at once is going to be a +4 Advantage on Dispel, so it'll cost at least 15 AP/die!!!). The RKA will also affect Vehicles, and will only have to do 2/5 the Active Points of the largest power in a Focus in Body damage (see 6E1 p. 379) to destroy it. The RKA will, of course, also cost 15 AP/die. The difference will come in when other Advantages (such as Area of Effect) are added in, but it sure seems like it's going to have to be a lot to overcome RKA's head start (especially because the RKA will be able to take the significant "Limited Power" Limitation mentioned above, whereas the Dispel is already limited to affecting a particular set of SFX).

Wow. When did Adjustment Powers get nerfed so badly? Huh.

Re: What's the next step?

I think the best thing we could do would be to start increasing the focus in the direction of such worlds with projects like S.E.T.I. Likewise we should consider what it's like to be on the other end of such a project and setup sustainable (as in something that could potentially go on operating for millennia) solar-powered broadcasters beaming in the direction of such worlds, sending signals like the first 100 prime numbers or elements of the Fibonacci series or something. If intelligent life is out there, we're not likely to be able to meet it personally or even hold a discussion with it for a very, very long time, but just the discovery that it is out there would provide a HELL of a stimulus to kick us into high gear for scientific advancement, and that's what we need right now more than anything.

Re: Obfuscation and Unbreakable Vows...

This is one of those places where I feel Skills ARE a much better fit than Powers. Skills (can) apply to all Sense Groups, for example. They can't necessarily be overcome with a simple Defense or range. They can get around problems like accidentally bumping into invisible buildings. Buy the Base an extraordinary level of Concealment, Stealth, and Security Systems (in addition to the Invisibility if you really want to be thorough); maybe even buy Systems Operation to deal with technological problems such as masking any radio signals and power use. Then top it off by buying things like the Anonymity Perk and a "Distant" Location.

Remember that if you go with Sean's EDM solution, you might also have to buy the Base's location to "Another Dimension". See 6E2 p. 190.

Re: Superhero Glider Cape

And btw Gliding is 0 end for free' date=' while flight costs end.[/quote']

An interesting note is that in 6E, the Flight power itself has actually been enhanced (without its price increasing, BTW). You can now use Flight as "Gliding" for 0 End without any sort of Advantage or anything. To buy "pure" Gliding you apply a Limitation to restrict you to only using your Flight in that way.

 

And I have thought about buying breakfall with cape. But for one thing' date=' I hate buying skills unless I have too. And again, I'm trying to use the approriate power.[/quote']

Ah. Okay. I'm the opposite: I like to encourage use of Skills even in superheroic games, and I don't like to replace Skills with Powers unless it really needs to be a "super-skill" that functions in a way the Skill itself cannot. But everyone's tastes are likely to differ there, of course.

Re: A DC Animated-style HeroMachine

I can't get the darn thing to work for me at all. After initial body type selection, I get the screen with all the selections around the outside, but the middle either holds a busy indicator indefinitely or becomes blank white after a short time.

Re: A DC Animated-style HeroMachine

In practice I've found that JPEG compresses far better than PNG for most graphical/cartoon type images also, so the question is whether or not the loss of data/quality is worth the savings in size. Often I'll bite the bullet (grumbling a bit too) and use JPEG for every image if I'm attaching to an e-mail or something.

Re: OCV/DCV Am I doing the math right?

If it would be easier for you' date=' and you find the math easier, no reason why you shouldn't. Objectively it isn't any easier, but....[/quote']

That seems like a pretty subjective (or at least unsupported) claim of what is or isn't objective....

Re: Combat Flowchart

Hmm. I don't know. All those pages of logic almost make it seem more complex than it actually is, which is usually not the intent of using a flowchart. Did you forget to list where defenses are applied?

Hmm. One interesting thing mention of the Hit Location ordering brought to mind, though, is the effect of Hit Location on Knockback. Currently there isn't any such interaction, but does it make sense that someone is knocked back many meters, through walls, etc., if they are hit in the hand? I suppose the question doesn't come up very often because the games that use Hit Locations (generally heroic) are often mutually exclusive with the games that use Knockback (generally superheroic).

I can imagine something like a Knockback and a Knockdown multiplier for each location. Something like:

Roll  Location    KD    KB    
3-5   Head        x2   x1/2   
 6    Hands      x1/2  x1/4  
7-8   Arms       x1/2  x1/2  
 9    Shoulders   x1    x1    
10-11  Chest      x3/2  x3/2
12    Stomach    x3/2  x3/2
13    Vitals     x3/2   x1   
14    Thighs     x3/2   x1   
15-16  Legs        x2   x1/2
17-18  Feet        x2   x1/4

What I was thinking is that you'd consider the Knockdown/Knockback effects separately. Using the same nd6 roll for Knockback Dice, you'd apply the KD (Knockdown) multiplier to the Body before subtracting the dice and Knockback Resistance to see if you are knocked off your feet; that's in games that use either Knockdown or Knockback. Then for games that use actual Knockback, if you are knocked down, you determine actual Knockback distance by using the ORIGINAL Body (not with the KD multiplier applied) and subtracting the Knockback Dice and Knockback Resistance, then applying the KB multiplier to see how far you actually travel.

The idea behind this is that some places (e.g. head) affect your balance more than others, or are so close to your center of gravity (e.g. chest and stomach) that you're likely to really be moved by something that hits you there. Other places (e.g. hands) aren't likely to move you or affect your balance much at all. And yet others (e.g. legs and feet) offer either a foundation or enough of a direct lever-arm that you're very likely to be knocked over, but won't go flying very far.

Example #1: Hoichima is hit in the head by an attack that does 8 Body before defenses. The Knockback dice roll plus KBR is 9. Head has a KD multiplier of x3/2, so he is definitely going to be knocked prone (8 x 3/2 - 9 = 12 - 9 = 3, which is positive). But he suffers no actual Knockback because 8 - 9 < 0, so he is ONLY knocked prone, not sent flying and not taking any Knockback damage.

Example #2: Federico the Flaming Flyer is hit in the left foot for 6 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 4. Feet have a KD multiplier of x2, se he is knocked prone (6 x 2 - 4 = 12 - 4 = 8 > 0). In addition, the KB multiplier is x1/4 and for Knockback we get (6-4) x 1/4 = 2/4 = 1/2 (1m). Not enough to move him much, but he's backed up a tad and sent sprawling. Even in mid-air that makes sense because the feet are so far from his center of gravity (so he's sent spinning and isn't really pushed back very far).

Example #3: Artichoke Man is hit in the right hand for 12 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 8. Since the KD multipler for hands is x1/2, Artichoke Man isn't knocked off his feet (12 x 1/2 - 8 = 6 - 8 < 0) and we don't consider Knockback distance at all.

Example #4: Artichoke Man's poor hand is hit AGAIN for 24 Body before defenses (hopefully he'll still HAVE a hand at the end of the day). The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 7. Applying the KD multiplier, we see that AM is definitely knocked prone (24 x 1/2 - 7 = 12 - 7 > 0). But will that chop to the hand send him flying backward through walls? Applying the hand KB multiplier of x1/4, we get (24 - 7) x1/4 = 17 x 1/4 = 4 (8m). He'll go flying, but not nearly so far as you'd normally expect from that kind of blow.

Example #5: Mr. Indispensable is hit square in the chest for 10 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR roll 11. Unfortunately for Mr. I., the KD multiplier for the chest is x3/2, so he's knocked off his feet despite all that KBR (10 x 3/2 - 11 = 15 - 11 > 0). However, he's not sent flying (10 - 11 < 0). If the KB Dice roll plus KBR had been only 8, he would have been moved a bit (10-8) x3/2 = 2 x3/2 = 3 (6m).

Re: OCV/DCV Am I doing the math right?

Though I do often wonder if We should transition to an easier system and roll high.

ie OCV + 3d6 vs DCV +10 Rolling the DCV or better would be a hit. I'll tell you the math would be FAR easier. Also working the skills this way would also give the illusion of the skill system being open ended vs the current illusion of it being a closed loop with the range being 3-18 and 3 being the best. On top of that, using target numbers like this would make it far easier for d20 players to wrap their brains around the system.

 

I know that it will never happen. Roll high would cause an outcry worse than removing Figured Characteristics.

Yeah. That's exactly what I already do, skill and characteristic rolls and all. And yes, I find it helps a great deal when introducing D&D/D20 players to Hero, which I've been doing a lot of lately. I even go one step further and de-couple skills from characteristics, then ask for a skill/characteristic combination for skill rolls (or skill+2 for most rolls with Background Skills), similar to the way it worked in the old World of Darkness. I find it really simple, easy, and almost fun. Heh.

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

For those who are angry at me for my posting this question. "Take a cold shower"

 

Now, what I'm trying to get at is a good guideline for what a vehicle has and what a character needs to pay points for. If a character bought a limosine for his personal use I've got no problems giving him/her use of the headlights and horn for no additional cost but... where do you draw the line in what can be justified without additional character points. I cited the F-15 as the premier example. It has a bunch of items at no additional cost or so it would appear and these are combat effective items.

Angry? I haven't seen anyone angry about anything here. Just people trying to give advice on how to handle this kind of thing without going batty.

I'd try to draw the line where combat effectiveness begins, and use my best guess as to where real game-changing out-of-combat effectiveness exists too. Huge Non-Combat Movement would be one example of something that should definitely be paid for even though it may not have an immediate effect on combat. RADAR is another good one, but keep it simple; no need to go into every little detail of where and how and what RADAR can detect--leave that up to SFX and common sense.

Vehicles are a case where I'd make full use of things like Frameworks and equipment-doubling rules, too. Once you do the kind of optimization you would on an actual character, can you really expect an F-15 to come out to more points than a powerful superhero? If so, you've got to seriously reexamine your approach to constructing it; maybe try to do it more like you would build a superhero who has similar abilities.

Re: Reflection - Active Points or DC

Modifiers that affect damage could potentially be included when calculating reflection potential and modifiers that don't could be left out....

That's exactly what basing it on DCs would do, since DCs are now defined as Active Points/5 when taking into consideration only Advantages that affect how damage is applied.

Incidentally, I'm considering aiding such DC/dice/AP calculations by making a note alongside each power, along with total Active Points, number of DCs, or dice of effect per DC, or total Active Points (including the rest of the Advantages) per DC, or just the total of Advantages that affect damage/DCs, or something like that.

Re: Advantage i almost never use: IPE

Hmm. Read this and it made me think that if what you were after was a power that was hard to block because it was hard to detect AND you wanted granularity' date=' extra OCV levels (only v Block) might work.[/quote']

Hmm. Yeah. Maybe even Only vs. Block and Dodge, since it's hard to know which way to dodge to get out of the way of something you can't see. That's like some of the weapon rebuilds I am doing: (EDIT: weapons with) chains will be extra OCV vs. Block and shield bonuses; big swords will probably have extra OCV vs. Dodge.

Re: Superhero Glider Cape

How about the Breakfall skill bought through a Focus? The actual speed difference would be SFX.

Re: Mental CSL's and base cost weirdness (6e)

+2.5d6 Mental Blast [5-v]

+5d6 Mental Illusions [5-v]

+5d6 Mind Control [5-v]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here, but these slots are worthless unless the character has Mental Powers outside the Framework. One slot cannot add to another in the same Multipower.

Re: Advantage i almost never use: IPE

Hmm. I don't know. To me it's a language, full of useful ambiguity that you have to consider with an open mind. That's far more flexible and useful than a set of rigid rules and definitions in my opinion. A silencer could easily fall under the province of Inobvious. In fact, silencers are a heck of a lot louder than the stupid little "pew" depicted in movies and television, so it might even be more appropriate to make a silencer the buy-off of a Noisy Limitation that guns without them have. What you don't get with a silencer is the big ol' echoing CRACK/POW you normally would with a firearm.

Re: Advantage i almost never use: IPE

I don't worry about it unless the power is really supposed to be difficult to detect in some extraordinary way without the use of skills such as Stealth, Concealment, or Shadowing. Even with use of those skills direct attacks are going to be obvious in SOME way (such as the audible crack of that gun), so IPE and/or Indirect may have to be applied unless you want to give yourself away.

Re: Vehicle Point cost 6th addition

I'd cover the major details. Try to cover every little possibility like headlights (landing lights?) and sun roof and you'll go crazy. Even a spoon can be worth hundreds of points. Start off modeling very roughly the basic Characteristics, movement, attacks, and defenses. If you can do that in a reasonable number of points, then prioritize the details you really want to add in and start fleshing it out a little where you can afford it.

Re: OCV/DCV Am I doing the math right?

I find that the easiest system is OCV+11= your To Hit Roll. Whatever you pass that by is the DCV you hit.

 

Ex: OCV 5+ 11= To Hit 16-. I roll 10, so I call out "DCV 10 or less!" The GM can then tell me whether or not I hit. THAT feels like the minimum of math to me.

Really? You might want to revisit how easy that is.

I like the roll high. If I roll an 8 and have OCV 6, it's just 8+6=14, so I hit DCV 4.

Re: Vulcan Racial Template

I've always thought of the "Nerve Pinch" as part of their psionic abilities.

 

The point was made that only Vulcans can do it, and it applies to numerous other species.

 

Doesn't really sound like a martial art manuever to me.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Weapon Element: Palindromedary Mounted Weapons

Until Data, Picard, and others managed to perform it. See this Wikipedia article for a decent explanation of why it can't really be psionic-based, though that's the way I thought of it too for a long time. I can see that it might work to buy just the basic ability, but I think a martial arts form for Vulcan training could work too. I kind of like the idea myself, even if it doesn't necessarily look like a traditional martial art.

Re: Dr. Terror's not so terrifying PRE

Entering an area with a CE that requires a skill roll immediately prompts one as well' date=' and failing a PRE skill check means running uncontrollably... so Dr. T's aura is actually pretty darn effective, albeit not the only way to simulate the effect.[/quote']

Yeah, true. Good point.

Re: Champions Powers book issues...

The thing is' date=' being exposed to hard vacuum doesn't just make you rely on the air in your lungs the way drowning in water does, it also almost instantly pulls the air [i']out[/i] of your lungs. NASA info has a physically fit astronaut exposed to near-vacuum conditions losing consciousness in about 14 seconds, as opposed to the couple of minutes the average person can hold their breath underwater.

It has other unpleasant effects on the body as well, but drowning is probably close enough for gamer work. You could probably use CE to cause a faster reduction in End though, by purchasing multiple levels. Thus you could, "drown them faster."