Mike W

Re: Standard Effect

Here's the idea: instead of being an option, 'standard effect' is a -1/4 limitation.

 

Here's why: 12d6 averages 42 'damage', and to get 42 damage with standard effect you'd need 14 dice, not 12. Yes you are gaining a measure of certainty as to effect but you are losing a great deal of possibility, and I just can't get away from the fact that, over time, the effect is clearly reducing effectiveness.

 

Now 12 dice to 14 dice is more like a -0.1667 rather than a -0.25, but even so it is a significant difference. Whether it is enought to justify a limitation, I don't know for sure, but I feel that it probably is; the limitation is closer to -1/4 than -0, that much is for sure. Moreover it makes the game run quicker as there is not all that damage die rolling, which has to be worth something .

 

What do you think?

I think it depends on what you put it on. If you put it on a KA, you actually GAIN damage in the long term. Sure, you won't get 100 STUN on 4D6 anymore, but you won't get 12 on 33% of your rolls either.

Also, I think it depends on whether you apply it across the board. If everyone has to take Standard Effect on the same attacks/type of attacks, then no limit for anyone. It's just part of the power the same way that EB rolls "normal damage" and RKA rolls "killing damage".

Re: Extra information from 3d6

If you really want to get arbitrary and atomic, use dice of three different colors (calling them "ones digit", "tens digit", and "hundreds digit"), and assign a different special effect to each 3-digit-number. Use the I Ching as a pattern for this.

 

EDIT: I ought to add here to make my intent more obvious.

You realize that I just shuddered by the very similarity of that proposal to the Star Wars "wild die", which I HATED.

Re: Extra information from 3d6

And a roll of 1,1,3 is always a 5 with a double 1 in it. Sean's proposal wouold add some more randomness, but it doesn't start from a non-random system - it expands on it.

 

 

 

And the likelihood of rolling a 6 or under with 2 1's in your roll is the same opercentage chance for each toss of the dice as well.

 

 

 

I fail to understand how rolling damage enough times will eventually even out, but rolling enough 3d6 rolls won't, over time, even out the doubles and triples. The fact that a 4d6 KA will even out over time is of no benefit for the poor sucker who just got hit with 21 BOD and 105 STUN.

 

 

 

Can you tell from looking at anb opponent that he has four skill levels in HTH combat and has allocated 2 to OCV and 2 to DCV? Those are bonuses.

 

 

 

Why? I don't know when that first attack inflicts 55 STUN and 17 BOD whether he hit me with a slightly below average 18d6 attack, or a great roll on a 12d6 attack. I don't know whether the opponent managed to connect with my 13 DCV because he has a 14 OCV, or an 8 OCV and a lucky roll. Why would I know that he got a bonus from rolling three 2's? All thre, of course, might become known because the GM tells me he got a lucky roll, but that's game style, not some rule that says you "know" someone got a bonus. If, for whatever reason, you want those bonuses known, all you need to do is announce them.

Ok, to break this up:

1. I think that the average character "knows" a lot more about his opponent and how well that character is fighting than you give them credit for. Part of this is based on reputation. Everyone knows that Grond is insanely strong. If he hits me for only 45 STUN, I know I got lucky - just because I'm still standing. Same thing for other big name baddies like Mechanon and Dr. Destroyer. By reputation, we know they're a lot tougher than that last hit just indicated. Similarly, it usually doesn't take long to figure out someone's "usual" CVs just by paying attention to what they attempt to do and what hits and misses. If they shift a lot of levels around, you can figure out they did it based on them fighting more defensively, or the fact that a roll that hit before just missed. Plus, on a more "theorectical" level, shouldn't something have to happen to create the bonus? And therefore, shouldn't someone who knew what to look for be able to notice that their relative position has gotten better or worse?

2. It's not that rolling enough 3d6s won't even out the doubles and triples, the problem is that A) It has less chance of evening out in a given fight and even if two characters roll the exact same number and type of doubles or triples, they may not gain equivalent benefit because a +1 OCV, for instance, doesn't have the same percentage effect on everyone's hit roll. If I have a 7 OCV, that +1 will do a lot more to increase my chances that if I have an 11 OCV trying to hit the same DCV. Same thing with damage rolls, +1DC of damage affects each attack differently. If I'm using an NND nerve Strike, I get +1 pip of damage. If I'm using a fist, I get +1D6 normal damage(about 1 BODY and 3.5 STUN) If I'm using a HKA sword I get 1 pip of BODY AND extra STUN(let's say 3). If I have left over STR and get to add that behind the new HKA total, say, from 1D6(2D6 total), to 1D6+1(2 1/2D6 total) then the guy with the sword gets a lot more. And so on as you get into other types of attacks(Mental Blast, Drains and such) it gets even more varied. And there is a very good chance that it won't even out. Again, who needs a +1OCV more - a martial artist hitting a brick or a brick hitting a martial artist?

3. As you get closer to the extreme ends of the spectrum, the liklihood of a bonus is going to increase. For example, in order to roll a three, four, or five, you MUST roll doubles or triples(either 1,1,3 or 2,2,1 no other combination can give you 5, the only combination for 4 is 1,1,2 and the only combination for 3 is 1,1,1), so you're essentially making it so that whenever something unlikely happens, you AUTOMATICALLY have a bonus or penalty applied to the next action. So this isn't quite as random as it first seems. Sure, the overall odds of rolling a "bonus" combination don't change every time you pick up 3d6, BUT there are some tasks that are so difficult that you would ALWAYS score a "bonus" when you succeeded. You have to get to the middle numbers(around 8 or 9 I think) before it reaches a point where scoring a "bonus" during success is unlikely.

To return to the martial artist vs. brick fight one more time. Let's say they each roll an eight and get 6,1,1 on their first hit rolls and this gives them a +1 to hit on their next attack. The martial artist just got hosed, even though they rolled the same thing. The martial artist gets a + 1 OCV which improves his chance to hit from 14- to 15-. Big deal, that's about 4% if I remember right. If the brick just went from 8- to 9- then his percentage increased by about twice as much from the same bonus. So the effect is NOT equal even though the rolls were.

Re: Extra information from 3d6

 

Or maybe rolls to hit? A roll of 5 when you need a 6 or less to hit that high DCV opponent has a lot more meaning than when you were attacking a much slower target, and could have hit with a 14.

 

QUOTE]

 

Except that in neither case is the random element unaccounted for. A roll of 5 is always a 5. And needing a 6 is the same hit % regardless of whether you roll 4,1,1 or 3,1,1. But it may have more symbolic meaning to roll 5 when you need 6 as opposed to 14, but the mechanical effect has been factored in already. And so have unusual damage rolls. Sure, sometimes you get 30 and sometimes 40, but 10d6 is 10d6 and, overall, it evens out pretty quick and the amount of change/randomness affects everyone equally. Putting bonuses/penalties for rolling doubles or triples won't affect everyone equally. Ever. It's the nature of the mechanic.

 

And again, how do you perceive/defend against someone getting a bonus against you? In every other case, I can generally tell if someone is getting is getting a bonus against me because they have to take some action that at least lets me know they MIGHT have such a bonus(above and beyond their reputation as a skilled/unskilled fighter). If someone is aiming at me, I can tell. If someone tries to haymaker, it is obvious. But in this case, you have no real way of knowing whether someone has a bonus against you. And even if it isn't perfectly realistic, given how the system works(and the fact that it portrays a lot of things that AREN'T realistic) there should be some way to know if someone just a bonus by rolling 2,2,2.

Re: Extra information from 3d6

Sure' date=' you can still hit. Why can't you hit and take a -1 DCV penalty until your next phase?[/quote']

 

On the other hand, why should I? Theoretically, I can explain how it happens, but we have to work out details like that, if we were going to do it. And we're going to have to have an even number of bonuses and penalties aren't we?

 

But again, even if we do, I think it tends to affect people differently because not everyone has similar CVs and DCs. They fit in a range, but even a small range for 4 CVs or 4DCs, a + or - 1 can have a major effect. In fact, the more unbalanced the game is to start(the wider the range of CVs and DCs involved to start) the less effect this has. I don't like the idea of a random event that affects characters(or even campaigns) differently.

 

And on one other related point, how do we rewrite Analyze: Style to compensate since it basically does deliberately what this is apparently attempting to do randomly.

Re: My Delemia

Two other recommendations.

1. Get Sidekick first. It's a simplified version of Champions, so you can learn the basics first.

2. If you decide to get writeups of characters online, make sure you get them all from the same place and then test them out. One of the things that makes HERO great is that you can build the same thing different ways. So not everyone builds Superman the same way and my version of Superman might not work in someone else's universe.

Re: Power suggestions for a "Perfect" human being

Depending on how "realistic" you want to be, you could look through the Ultimate Martial Artist for ideas. Legendary martial arts masters have supposedly been able to extinguish fires, teleport, and do all sorts of other things that we would consider "unrealistic".

If you're trying to keep things more "realistic", you could always give him a huge gadget and weapon pool and mastery over all of the gadgets and weapons.

Re: Extra information from 3d6

Maybe high doubles and triples should create an advantage to the defender, rather than the attacker. Perhaps 6 6 6 means the target gets a free retaliatory strike, and double six means the attacker is at -1 DCV until his next phase, or some such.

 

 

 

Triple damage is a lot better that Sean's maximum of +2 DC's, isn't it? I think Sean's examples are much more low-impact. My bigger concern would be the fact that doubles come up over 40% of the time, so these extra bonuses would be very common. That's OK, however, if you want these minor variations to show up regularly.

By the time,you posted this, I'd already rewritten that section of my post because I had somewhat misread the first post. I still don't like it though.

And for double 6s, what if I still hit? I could roll 6,6,1 for 13. IF I have a high OCV character like a martial artist then I could hit a lot of people with that roll.

Re: Extra information from 3d6

Here’s an idea ripped, at least in part from a great game called Unknown Armies.

 

I like the idea of extracting a lot of information from a single die roll. Now normally a 3d6 roll to hit simply uses the roll total, but there is a lot of other information there that you can use. The total can be used as part of the damage roll (we’ve discussed that one before), but here’s an idea I haven’t seen prevented. A very similar idea is used in the game ‘Unknown Armies’

 

When the dice roll comes up with a double or triple number, you get a bonus of some sort:

 

+1 OCV on attacks next phase

+1 DCV next phase

+1DC on this attack

Free attempt to disarm the target of this attack

Free attempt to grab the target for this attack

+1” knockback on this attack

 

I’m sure you can think of more.

 

Basically the idea is that you assign an effect to doubles and triples. Triples get double a double effect or two effects, as appropriate. Low triples are much more likely than high ones, and 6,6,6 can’t be assigned a bonus, so triples only come up 1 time in (about) 43 rolls, whereas doubles come up (if my maths is right) about 41% of rolls.

 

EG

 

Roll of 1,1,x = +1DC damage

Roll of 111 = +2DC damage

Roll of 2,2,x = +1 OCV next phase

Roll of 2,2,2 = +2 OCV next phase

Etc.

 

The bonuses are assigned by the player at character creation and are never changed except with GM permission.

 

I mean it is completely unnecessary and does not fill any particular need, but may add a little savour to combat for those who like the idea.

 

Thoughts?

I'm not crazy about this idea. For one thing, I'm not sure how it affects play balance - and just because it's the same for everyone doesn't mean it is balanced, especially if you get a roll like 5,5,5 which doesn't hit very often. And 6,6,6, is already an automatic failure.

I was never a fan of the wild die in Star Wars because it was 1/3 rolls and had a major effect overall. This is capable of affecting almost 1/2 of all rolls. Even if you keep the "bonuses" to a minimum, it could have a major effect on play balance. A +1 OCV can affect your hit chances by as much as 1 in 8. On the other hand, if you already have a big advantage, that extra +1 OCV might only get you a 1 in 25 bonus. If you do DCs, it may not translate into enough extra damage to matter. In short, the bonuses won't necessarily affect everyone equally. If I've got a martial artist and I'm fighting a brick, I don't care about extra OCV, it probably doesn't make much difference for me. The extra DC might be nice, but it may not be enough to hurt the brick, and if I'm using somethng like and NND to hurt him, it's only about 1pip. Big deal. If I'm the brick, I don't care about DC; I'm gonna squash the little pipsqueak if I can hit him. But that extra OCV might come in real handy since the difference between 9- and 10- is quite significant. Of course, if the martial artist realizes the brick just got a bonus(how do you tell if someone just a bonus on you?), the little squirt is liable to just declare a dodge and my CV bonus is pretty irreleveant.

Re: The Roof, The Roof, the roof is on fire

I don't get into all the extra stats for the fire myself. I just figure out how much damage it does and if the Dispel is enough to overcome the points based on damage, then the Dispel snuffs out the fire over how much area the Dispel can affect. If the Dispel doesn't have an AOE, then I'll take a guess, but I always give them at least one hex.

Re: Grond, underpowered pansy?

On the other hand, Grond is child like enough that if someone ineffectual did a good enough job of taunting, Grond might ignore more effective combatants(at least for a while) to try and stomp the obnoxious character first.

Re: Comics are getting too steamy...

And don't get me started on Juggernaut and She-Hulk having a one night stand...

 

 

 

hey, I love sex and am a fan of naughty comics, too.

But, I'd like to keep sex in mainstream comics a) in the background, and at least somewhat logical. She Hulk and Wyatt Wingfoot, her longtime boyfriend? Sure. She hulk and some guy she picked up at a bar? Okay, it's not flattering but if they want to make her the female version of Hercules, alright then. She Hulk and a guy who was a supervillain yesterday and has over the course of his career tried to kill many she considered her friends? Knowingly? Uhm. No.

Exactly. But then, we have to remember that most of these writers seem like they don't care about the characters. They have a story to tell and the characters are there to do whatever it is the writer wants to do - history, logic, and character integrity be DA**ED.

Re: Grond, underpowered pansy?

Yes, it is. It's also why I have a 70 AP maximum for "The Most Powerful Heroes in the World."

 

The guys who designed the old editions weren't morons. They really DID know what they were doing. It's just that everything has to be "Bigger, Better, Faster,Harder" now even though there's really no need for it.

 

Is the NEW CU really mighty? Sure.

 

But is the power level necessary? Nope.

 

When a Brick with a 60 STR can level most skyscrapers, you have, in fact, achieved a level of awesome superpower. Sure, he can't knock people BACK the equivalent distance, but that's okay, superheroes should be super tough too.

 

So the answer is, no. Grond is not an underpowered pansy. He's just underpowered by the standards of the overpowered comics that people today are reading.

 

Often, people forget that the best stories that are told in comics are the human stories, the stories about people. The stories we remember from Comics aren't always "The Final Showdown with the Jackal."

 

We remember "A Guy Named Joe". We remember "Everyman." We remember that one Christmas in Gotham City where the Justice League comes to give Batman one night off....

 

And if you make the characters too powerful, your players will lose that sense that stories like that can be told, indeed, that they even mean anything.

 

So yeah, they have the capability to destroy a building. But don't forget the little stories that make the characters human.

The JLA gave Batman a night off? Can you tell me what issue? I'd love to read it.

Re: Spidey my version

Good writeup overall.

 

My thoughts on a few things I'd do differently.

 

(1) The catch net, as TK costing END, means that he needs to keep paying END to keep it up. I'd suggest 20 STR, 4" Radius, 0 END.

 

(2) The impact webbing seems an awfully high DC. At 15d6, it hits harder than his punch?! I'd think 12d6 with 1/2 END, or maybe 10d6 at 0 END would be more accurate. (Personally, I think the second one, but YMMV.)

 

(3) Not sure the Spider Sense is only in-combat. IIRC, his first-ever use of it in the comics was sensing a vehicle about to hit him (then jumping like 30 feet up a wall and clinging there). You could also make a case for dropping Intuitional (he has used it to target foes while blinded or otherwise unable to see, but that may or may not have been in his first 5 years). Spider Man *is* the poster child for Danger Sense, after all.

 

(4) I'd add a Power Skill: Webbing. Even early on, he was inventive with his webs, and this would justify occasional use of trip lines and other stuff.

 

(5) A die of Unluck might fit. Things rarely go great for poor Petey.

Bolo reminded me that his spider sense is much more powerful than it is written up. His spider sense not only works out of combat, but it doesn't have to pertain directly to him. If he walks out of the bank just as a guy with a pistol in his jacket goes in to rob it, Spidey's danger sense goes off. He may not know exactly what's going on, but he knows that Guy A is about to do something that could result in people getting hurt.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks?

Force Wall based invulnerability has its advantages, but it requires Indirect for you to attack through it and tends to fail at times when you really need it.

 

I might build a really "Invulnerable" brick with 42+ PD and ED, resistant and hardened, plus 3/4 Damage Reduction PD and ED, a CON of 28+, a BOD of 20+, and a REC of 20+. Add in Regeneration with the Resurrection adder and 20 or so Power Defense, and maybe full life support. There's not all that much that will hurt him on average in most of the published HERO books, and even a tac nuke on average won't kill him, at least not for long.

 

Of course such a character is expensive, but you can get a pretty near invulnerable character on 350 points. Why you'd want to is another question.

This guy is amusing. I may have to steal him for a one off in my next Champs campaign.

Re: Great Goggle-Eyed Ninjas!

I have a question about the 360-Degree Increased Perception power and the Defense Maneuvers allowing a character to treat all characters "behind" him or her as being, well, not behind.

 

Are these redundant? Does a character with 360 Degree Spatial Awareness (or whatever) need them?

The Defense maneuver basically says that you move in a way that prevents people from getting a clean shot at your back. So they don't get the bonus of "attacking from behind". The 360 Degree Increased Perception means that you can actually "see"(in some sense) where they are.

I'm also of the same belief as Dust Raven that if you have 360 degree perception, then there are no "attacking from behind" penalties because you essentially have no "blind spot" for the attacker to hide in or surprise you from.

Re: Spidey my version

Spidey should have a higher BODY. Sorry, but the guy takes beatings from cosmic forces, then they marvel at the fact he won't quit. It's happened on more than one occasion. Literally. He takes beatings that would kill normal supers at least once a year and still comes back fighting.

Fantastic Four should be a pricier contact. They are highly useful and have NCI. Spidey doesn't call on them for it, but he could.

Depending on the era you could argue he should have a lot of other contacts as well. The guy has worked with basically every hero in existance. But a "classic" version of Spidey should at least have the Avengers as a contact and probably Black Cat as well. I'd also make Johnny Storm a separate contact. They actually exchange Christmas presents every year! So even things that Reed might not have time for, Johnny would probably make time for.

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks?

No' date=' you missed the point. I'm talking about super martial artists with the origin of being (at least physically) a highly trained normal. I.E., posessing no super human physical attributes. Someone like Daredevil, for example. (Has sensory powers, and advanced MA training.)[/quote']

 

Ok, the thread title kind of threw me. Still, the guy you present is no threat to a real brick. I mean, ok, so the martial artist can hit the brick, a lot. If you cheat on your CVs, you're toast in within one turn when you get CON stunned on one punch. Theoretically, there is no point in "normal proofing" every brick when a superheroic martial artist is by definition, not "normal". Even if the person is technically a "normal human" like Daredevil. Three reasons why:

 

1. It messes up the power scale too much and expand it beyond what works well. Normal proofing the bricks makes them immune to a lot of the mid-level non-humans as well. Or close enough to make them no threat.

2. It's a lot harder than you think since you need to buy various NND defenses. And at least one level of hardened DEF. And don't forget Lack of Weakness to offset Find Weakness. It gets expensive quickly.

3. One of the things that gets argued about the most is exactly how "immune" certain people really are to various attack in the comics. Truthfully, when it comes to bricks, the difference between totally immune and "does not take significant STUN" is imporant. If you have a normal character with, say 25 DEF and 40 STUN, do you care if some guy hits you for 28 STUN? No. Not unless you were already running low. 3 STUN is something you shrug off. If you're a brick with 80 STUN and 30 DEF, do you really care if some little pipsqueak hits you for 35 STUN? Probably not. 5 STUN is beneath your notice. I hate to use a wrestling analogy, but it's kind of like "no selling" a wrestling move. Normally, in a wrestling match the guy getting hit is supposed to "sell" the move, or make it look good. But some big guys will, when appropriate "no sell" a move and act like it didn't hurt. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but the guy makes you THINK it didn't. Same thing here. Maybe the little guy got a few STUN through, you still have 75 STUN left out of 80 and a REC in the 20s, do you REALLY care?

Re: Normal-proofing your Bricks?

Well, given that even a slow super brick has 17 DEX, Joe Normal probably doesn't have the CVs to waste on extra damage. And does he have martial arts WITH the baseball bat? Probably not. I mean, how many people have enough martial arts WEAPONS training to get that kind of damage(10d6). Truthfully, not many. I know several people with martial arts training. But I've only met one person who I think could come up with 10d6 damage. Also, remember that Joe Normal with 20 STR isn't your typical normal. Only a small handful of people have 20 STR, which is enough to lift over 800 pounds. And you could always apply the "real weapon" limit to the bat, which would in and of itself prevent the bat attack from doing 10d6 damage since it could, by default do more than 2x its base damage, even as blunt object.

Really, 30 DEF with 10-15 resistant is enough to "bulletproof" or "normal proof" your bricks from anyone without access to military grade equipment or a world class martial artist(who is far enough above "normal" that I wouldn't count it).

Re: Putting my finger on it

I can see Sean's point here.

 

As a kid it is exciting mixing colours - amazing that when you mix blue and yellow that you get green. The problem with it was that the more you mixed the more you inexorably moved toward brown....

 

Sometimes throwing everything in together does not make things more exciting.

 

It used to be nice picking up Fantasy Hero and seeing just what worked differently in an FH game rather than Champions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a return to having genre specific rules in genre books (though I think there should be big rules discussion section in genre books discussing how to achieve look and feel). I like having everything in one book, I would simply highlight what rules are core [relevant to all genres] or which relate best to particular genres [Champions, FH, SH etc]. The easiest way to do this would be using colour on title bars but even icons would be useful.

 

This way it would be easier to enforce the presence or absence of particular builds for entry level players and GMs and would provide a pointer to the casual user the number of genres that the game does cover.

 

 

Doc

I like the Icon idea, although it might get a bit confusing if you put icons on powers(Extradimensional movement and Dark Champions don't necessarily go together) when we already have icons like the Stop Sign. Maybe a chart instead?

Re: SPD inflation obesrvation & solution

To me' date=' SPD is simply a matter of just how responsive and effective you are in reacting during combat. I have NO problem with a NORMAL HUMAN who is Batman-level having a 12 SPD. Similarly, I have no problem with a metahuman such as the Hulk having a 1 SPD. Not that I've run either in an actual campaign this way given how extreme these are and due to how actual mechanics work and how costs are, but I don't see SPD as something that really is metahuman versus human and that a human couldn't attain the max in. After all, it's only ONE SECOND of action! I think if we honestly evaluated some athletes in their sports and some combat-intensive people in combat that we'd find lots of real-world people have 12 SPDs in actual effect. However, the game doesn't really work this way too well, just given how things balance. So we reserve 12 SPD for unusual levels of ability for game purposes. But that isn't the same as what a "regular human" can do versus someone altered beyond human maximum.[/quote']

 

I can agree with this to some extent. We tend to think of SPD purely in terms of physical speed/reaction time. But how fast we MENTALLY react is just as important. If you can't think fast, then a high SPD isn't very useful or accurate. But I do think that there needs to be a "human limit", that represents a physical limit of "no matter how fast you can think, your body can only move so quickly.

Re: SPD inflation obesrvation & solution

well...my answer is Yes, but I don't get there with stats, I use tactics. And thats something the average super team has no concept of..

 

I do have spd 4 agents though PRIMUS and their horde of Cyberline junkies...

 

The rest are spd 2, elites are spd 3 and boosted agents (viper combat drugs) usually are 3 ,Zoom addicts are 4 to 5, but have little else,including tactics.

Tactics are another matter. I was thinking individually. A couple of properly run VIPER 5 teams should be enough to slow down any super hero team, maybe even beat them if the heroes get careless.

Re: Putting my finger on it

I can kind of see where you're going with this. While there have always been "genre specific" rules, you needed the genre book to find them(Dark Champions, Fantasy HERO, whatever). I can see that to some extent, but at the same time, it might be handy to have something in the general 5th edition book that said which optional rules are "mandatory" in a given campaign style. And while there have always been other genres, ultimately we tend to think of HERO as a superhero system. In fact, there are some of us that use Champions(or Champs) to refer to HERO in general.

On the other hand, I like the fact that I can grab a guy from Dark Champions, Fantasy Hero, or some other genre, power him up a bit, and drop him into Champions. Or grab a traditional knight from Fantasy HERO, change his background and put him in a Ninja HERO campaign. And through it all, I can assume that things work more or less the same. If we make too many of the rules "genre specific" we run the risk of creating things that use the same system but are no longer compatible without some more major revisions. I rather like the idea of being able to use one system for any campaign that I feel like using it, regardless of genre.

Re: VPP, Shapeshift and You

I'm curious how people would build a pool for shapeshifting. Would you make it 0 phase to shift? Would it have a roll? What sorts of limitations would you put on it? Inquiring Minds Want to Know

It depends on the character. If the character has a great deal of control, it can be 0 phase and have no roll. If they have less control it could require a full phase(or more) and a skill roll(based on CON in my campaign). I've also put limits like "must resume base form before shifting"(-1/2) or "must shift at least half the pool"(-1/2) to represent the character's control. In the above cases, they can shift from their base form to something, but they aren't good at modifying the new form. Other possibilities: Side Effect on the shift roll(I even put NND Killing Attack Side Effect on one defined as "that bone wasn't supposed to go there").

Re: Frameworks modifying frameworks

Was the (other archer's) arrow taken as a Focus, though?

 

 

 

I think at the very least arrows should be taken with Physical Manifestation, or at least the Ranged Attack should (whatever its Focus is).

 

 

 

I recall that most bullets aren't taken as Foci*; the gun is, but without a specific Limitation we're getting into whether SFX should impose penalties that are of at least a -1/4 Limitation level. Or would Real Weapon cover that?

 

*The question came up in regards to catching bullets, axes, and other ranged physical attacks; Missile Reflection promptly labelled them "Return to Sender", which was problematic since the wielder could retrieve it without your possession (9/10ths of the law) interfering.

Any archer I've ever seen built buys the arrows as foci, if for no other reason than to get the Focus limit on all the "trick" arrows. And technically, the ammunition is part of the "gun focus" limit. After all, if I take the bullets out of the clip, you can't fire the gun can you? And even though the ammo is bought with the charges limit, it's often bought as part of the same "gun power" indicating that they are parts of one big power and take all the limits as a whole, including the focus. This is true even if the gun is built as a multipower so that it can handle different ammo types. Each one is still part of the same MP and the focus limit applied to the gun automatically applies to all the slots. Also, the fact that we are dealing with an accessible and physical manifestation of the base power(RKA, for example) strongly argues that a focus limit shoudl be required of the power.